Author Topic: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns  (Read 1101 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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Sam Liccardo, a Democrat, is mayor of San Jose.

The July mass shooting in Gilroy, Calif., left two San Jose families mourning the loss of their children, 6-year-old Stephen Romero and 13-year-old Keyla Salazar. As San Jose’s mayor, I hugged grieving family members, visited injured residents in the hospital and attended vigils. My mind reeled for words that might ease their suffering and the community’s pain, but shallow platitudes couldn’t offer much solace.

Mayors who experience such suffering in their communities after senseless gun violence do not have the luxury of waiting for Congress to act, as lawmakers offer their “thoughts and prayers.” Cities demand problem-solving over posturing. So this month, I proposed an oft-considered but as-yet-never-implemented idea: require every gun owner in the 10th-largest city in the United States to buy liability insurance.

Every U.S. state mandates that automobile drivers buy liability insurance; we should require no less of gun owners. Cars and guns have exacted a similarly grim human toll, each causing about 40,000 deaths in 2017. If San Jose’s gun owners can’t get liability insurance, they can comply with the mandate by paying a fee to compensate taxpayers for the “gun violence subsidy” borne by the public.

That is, for decades, taxpayers have subsidized gun ownership and the harms that accompany it. Direct costs of gun violence to California taxpayers — for ambulances, cops and emergency rooms — exceeded $1.4 billion last year, according to one study. While the Second Amendment protects a right to bear arms, it does not require taxpayers to subsidize the exercise of that right. Courts routinely uphold the imposition of reasonable, nonobstructive fees or taxes on constitutionally protected activities, such as forming a tax-exempt nonprofit, selling a newspaper and purchasing a gun.

Insurance can provide a useful mechanism for harm reduction. Risk-adjusted premiums provide financial incentives that reward good driving and installing air bags, and discourage parents from handing the keys to their risk-taking teenagers. Similarly, insurers could use premium discounts to prod law-abiding gun owners to take gun-safety courses, purchase gun safes and install child-safety locks — a welcome improvement for a nation in which more than 4.6 million children live in a household where a gun is kept loaded and unlocked. Insurers would also hike the premium on a 19-year-old looking to buy his first semiautomatic weapon, someone such as the Gilroy shooter.

Of course, “the crooks” won’t pay a fee or buy insurance; only law-abiding gun owners would. An insurance requirement at the point of sale, if purchased locally, would make it harder for some guns to get into the wrong hands. Regardless of where the gun is purchased, all San Jose residents would face an insurance requirement for merely possessing a gun — just as they would a car. The insurance thereby provides an additional tool for law enforcement against crooks. A prospective burglar casing a home or a criminal standing watch on a street corner may avoid arrest due to lack of demonstrable criminality. Yet if a constitutionally compliant pat-down search revealed possession of an uninsured gun, the suspect would face the consequences of an uninsured motorist, including a fine, misdemeanor conviction and seizure of the gun.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/san-jose-mayor-why-im-requiring-my-residents-to-insure-guns/2019/08/26/e1187d20-c80f-11e9-be05-f76ac4ec618c_story.html
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2019, 10:39:09 pm »
Appearently the Mayor doesn't understand two simple truths 1) Driving isn't a constitution right and 2) insurance and registration isn't required for a car UNLESS you plan to drive it on a public road.

Oh and he's confused on the whole "shall not infringe" thing too.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Online roamer_1

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 10:44:55 pm »
Appearently the Mayor doesn't understand two simple truths 1) Driving isn't a constitution right and 2) insurance and registration isn't required for a car UNLESS you plan to drive it on a public road.

Oh and he's confused on the whole "shall not infringe" thing too.

Where have I heard all this before... It sounds SO familiar...

Offline XenaLee

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 10:57:19 pm »
Appearently the Mayor doesn't understand two simple truths 1) Driving isn't a constitution right and 2) insurance and registration isn't required for a car UNLESS you plan to drive it on a public road.

Oh and he's confused on the whole "shall not infringe" thing too.

Oh he's not confused at all, txradioguy.   He's shock-sure of what he's attempting to do.  Penalize law-abiding Americans unconstitutionally.   Just like the Obama leftists did when they passed Obamacare and called it a "fee" when it was really a tax....a tax levied unevenly, at that.  We're supposed to have equal treatment under the law and under the constitution.  What happened to that?  This would be yet another unfair "tax" levied against legal gun owners in the left's efforts to fundamentally transform us ALL into criminals.

Quote
the suspect would face the consequences of an uninsured motorist, including a fine, misdemeanor conviction and seizure of the gun.

That means the person would go to jail.  Since when has American "justice" thrown anyone in jail for failing to pay a tax in that small of an amount?   You have millions of Americans cheating on their taxes as we speak that never see a jail cell (half or more of Obama's cabinet were tax cheats).  Yet failing to pay this "tax" would land you in jail???

Screw that.   

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Online rustynail

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2019, 11:09:50 pm »
The comments on that opinion piece are depressing.

Offline skeeter

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2019, 11:12:36 pm »
The comments on that opinion piece are depressing.

It’s the WaPo. No better than the old gray POS.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2019, 11:23:37 pm »
Also interesting.... is that the California leftists would impose a misdemeanor conviction upon anyone not having gun insurance.... even while drivers caught driving without auto insurance do not get such harsh treatment (no misdemeanor, no arrest, etc.).  I'm shocked.    :sarc:
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2019, 11:27:38 pm »
Quote
Mayors who experience such suffering in their communities after senseless gun violence do not have the luxury of waiting for Congress to act, as lawmakers offer their “thoughts and prayers.” Cities demand problem-solving over posturing. So this month, I proposed an oft-considered but as-yet-never-implemented idea: require every gun owner in the 10th-largest city in the United States to buy liability insurance.

It's a proposal, contrary to the WashPost's headline. This could get weird, if it's passed. There are several "islands" of unincorporated neighborhoods that are entirely surrounded by the city of San Jose. I live in one of those areas. If I buy or currently own a gun, I would not be subject to that law. But if I were transporting it through part of San Jose and were stopped by a police officer, I would be in San Jose, my car would be registered as being in San Jose, and my residential address on my CDL says "San Jose". It could get messy, unless the police officer noticed and understood that my house number on my CDL means I do not live in the City of San Jose.

Further, this ordinance would accomplish nothing. It would be an expense or a snare to legal gun owners, but criminals bent on murder won't think twice about not getting this insurance. As for the Gilroy shooter, had Gilroy had such an ordinance it would have accomplished nothing, as he bought his gun in Nevada, where he lived. This proposed ordinance is an empty feel-good symbol that puts law-abiding people at risk by burdening legal gun ownership and sets up legal tangles for law-abiding people who live in unincorporated areas surrounded by the City of San Jose.

That this ordinance would burden legal gun ownership is a likely grounds for it being overturned, after years of court battles, wasted taxpayer money defending the indefensible, and forcing law-abiding people to spend large amounts of $$ to defend their rights against a blatantly obvious infringement.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2019, 11:32:31 pm »
It's a proposal, contrary to the WashPost's headline. This could get weird, if it's passed. There are several "islands" of unincorporated neighborhoods that are entirely surrounded by the city of San Jose. I live in one of those areas. If I buy or currently own a gun, I would not be subject to that law. But if I were transporting it through part of San Jose and were stopped by a police officer, I would be in San Jose, my car would be registered as being in San Jose, and my residential address on my CDL says "San Jose". It could get messy, unless the police officer noticed and understood that my house number on my CDL means I do not live in the City of San Jose.

Further, this ordinance would accomplish nothing. It would be an expense or a snare to legal gun owners, but criminals bent on murder won't think twice about not getting this insurance. As for the Gilroy shooter, had Gilroy had such an ordinance it would have accomplished nothing, as he bought his gun in Nevada, where he lived. This proposed ordinance is an empty feel-good symbol that puts law-abiding people at risk by burdening legal gun ownership and sets up legal tangles for law-abiding people who live in unincorporated areas surrounded by the City of San Jose.

That this ordinance would burden legal gun ownership is a likely grounds for it being overturned, after years of court battles, wasted taxpayer money defending the indefensible, and forcing law-abiding people to spend large amounts of $$ to defend their rights against a blatantly obvious infringement.

And what about folks living at poverty level that can't afford to spend large amounts of $$$ just for "the right to own a weapon" for their protection?   Talk about unequal laws and penalties.   But then, that's your average leftist Democrat elitist all over.
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Offline skeeter

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2019, 11:49:29 pm »
These leftists keep passing laws for me to break.

I went 50 plus years without breaking a single one. Now suddenly I’m a virtual outlaw.

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2019, 01:20:15 am »
In previous postings in this forum, I've referred to the red states as being "the traditional freedom" states, and the blue states as the "new slavery" states.

California is livin' up to my predictions !

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2019, 02:17:54 am »
Should be pretty easy to round up that cash...he already has a list of all the registered guns, right? 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2019, 08:57:05 am »
These leftists keep passing laws for me to break.

I went 50 plus years without breaking a single one. Now suddenly I’m a virtual outlaw.
Yep, you 'get it'. Without changing what I do, it is amazing how much of a lawbreaker I can become, without stealing from and without harming anyone.

The flaw in what passes for thinking, is the thought that those who are law abiding have cost anyone anything by being law abiding with their guns.

It is those who, through criminal action, have cost anyone anything, who will not abide by these schemes either, along with a multitude who won't break any other laws.

And, note, as ever, this scheme would, of necessity, require a database of who owned what, or cause one to be formed--as ever, a prelude to confiscation.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2019, 12:31:14 pm »
This isn't insurance.   This is just another tax.

The purpose of insurance is to mitigate the insured's potential liability, or provide a source of compensation for harm caused by the insured.    This scheme is intended to "compensate taxpayers for the 'gun violence subsidy' borne by the public."

I support gun owners being required to carry insurance, but not this nonsense.    True insurance would be, for most, inexpensive and would provide a source of payment of medical bills and lost wages caused by the use of the insured's firearms.   Not to compensate the public for harms caused by gun violence generally.   Placing such a burden solely on law-abiding gun owners is outrageous.     
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 12:32:55 pm by Jazzhead »
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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2019, 01:34:10 pm »
@Jazzhead

This is exactly the kind of insurance a government would demand of gun owners.  Exactly.  Why do you think Briefers have been so resistant to your proposal?
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Offline skeeter

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2019, 01:51:08 pm »
Yep, you 'get it'. Without changing what I do, it is amazing how much of a lawbreaker I can become, without stealing from and without harming anyone.

The flaw in what passes for thinking, is the thought that those who are law abiding have cost anyone anything by being law abiding with their guns.

It is those who, through criminal action, have cost anyone anything, who will not abide by these schemes either, along with a multitude who won't break any other laws.

And, note, as ever, this scheme would, of necessity, require a database of who owned what, or cause one to be formed--as ever, a prelude to confiscation.

It goes without saying those promoting these laws abide by the same ideology determined to lessen the consequences for crimes with actual victims. Ass backwards, as is everything else the left believes.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2019, 02:09:17 pm »
This isn't insurance.   This is just another tax.

The purpose of insurance is to mitigate the insured's potential liability, or provide a source of compensation for harm caused by the insured.    This scheme is intended to "compensate taxpayers for the 'gun violence subsidy' borne by the public."

I support gun owners being required to carry insurance, but not this nonsense.    True insurance would be, for most, inexpensive and would provide a source of payment of medical bills and lost wages caused by the use of the insured's firearms.   Not to compensate the public for harms caused by gun violence generally.   Placing such a burden solely on law-abiding gun owners is outrageous.     

Netither you nor the mayor seem to understand that unlike with the right to keep and bear arms...there's not a Constitutional right to drive.  Nor...if you keep your vehicle off of city/county/state/federal roads do you have to insure it or register it.

Supporting guns being insured...which would require caliber make model and serial number of each individual weapon being given to an insurance agency or company...you support what this really is...back door registration of every single firearm in the country.

Or more precisely the ones anyone will admit to having.  Nice try and splitting hairs on this...but you're not fooling anyone.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2019, 02:10:07 pm »
@Jazzhead

This is exactly the kind of insurance a government would demand of gun owners.  Exactly.  Why do you think Briefers have been so resistant to your proposal?

@Cyber Liberty

To borrow one of your quotes...

I will NOT comply.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2019, 02:26:21 pm »
  Nice try and splitting hairs on this.

I'm not splitting hairs.   I support good policy and oppose bad policy.   The San Jose mayor is disguising a general tax as insurance.   But true insurance - to provide a source of compensation to those harmed by the insured's, and only the insured's, guns - makes policy sense and would not be so prohibitively expensive as to amount to backdoor confiscation. 

As to the charge of backdoor registration,  I plead guilty.   I strongly support registration of firearms, or at least semi-automatics.   

I had an interesting conversation with a friend the other day,  trying to come up with the parameters of a "grand bargain"  that might satisfy both sides.    What we came up with was more or less the following:   Licensure,  registration and insurance (along the limited lines I proposed above) of semi-automatics pistols and long guns only (no registration or insurance for other types of firearms),  coupled with full recognition of concealed carry permits across state lines.   

I'm not looking for anyone here to agree with such a "grand bargain",  but this is the sort of wonkish stuff I enjoy batting around.    :tongue2:
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 02:27:31 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2019, 02:33:04 pm »
I'm not splitting hairs.   I support good policy and oppose bad policy.   The San Jose mayor is disguising a general tax as insurance.   But true insurance - to provide a source of compensation to those harmed by the insured's, and only the insured's, guns - makes policy sense and would not be so prohibitively expensive as to amount to backdoor confiscation. 

As to the charge of backdoor registration,  I plead guilty.   I strongly support registration of firearms, or at least semi-automatics.   

I had an interesting conversation with a friend the other day,  trying to come up with the parameters of a "grand bargain"  that might satisfy both sides.    What we came up with was more or less the following:   Licensure,  registration and insurance (along the limited lines I proposed above) of semi-automatics pistols and long guns only (no registration or insurance for other types of firearms),  coupled with full recognition of concealed carry permits across state lines.   

I'm not looking for anyone here to agree with such a "grand bargain",  but this is the sort of wonkish stuff I enjoy batting around.    :tongue2:

No what you support is backdoor registration and a national list of registered gun owners.  You just don't have the stones to admit it.

So you hid behind the ruse of required insurance.

Tell me who is going to determine the amount of coverage or the insurance rates for gun owners? What's our deductible?  How do we know that the list won't be used by an insurance agency (assuming the Feds don't make themselves the sole insurer of guns like they do with flood insurance) to jack up my other premiums I might have with them because of the "risky lifestyle choices" they think I make because I own a gun?  What or who is gonna stop them from dropping me entirely if they don't want to cover me because I own firearms?

You don't know the answers to that because you and others clearly haven't thought this through to it's logical conclusion...or you have and you just don't want to admit you know how this all ends.  Either way it's a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

As for the "grand bargain"...there is no "grand bargain" to be made on this.  "Shall not infringe" is very very clear.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2019, 02:42:01 pm »
No what you support is backdoor registration and a national list of registered gun owners.  You just don't have the stones to admit it.

So you hid behind the ruse of required insurance.

Tell me who is going to determine the amount of coverage or the insurance rates for gun owners? What's our deductible?  How do we know that the list won't be used by an insurance agency (assuming the Feds don't make themselves the sole insurer of guns like they do with flood insurance) to jack up my other premiums I might have with them because of the "risky lifestyle choices" they think I make because I own a gun?  What or who is gonna stop them from dropping me entirely if they don't want to cover me because I own firearms?

You don't know the answers to that because you and others clearly haven't thought this through to it's logical conclusion...or you have and you just don't want to admit you know how this all ends.  Either way it's a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

As for the "grand bargain"...there is no "grand bargain" to be made on this.  "Shall not infringe" is very very clear.

@Jazzhead  has been 100% upfront about wanting to register firearms...nothing backdoor about it.  The key takeaway from this story is San Jose's "insurance" scheme is exactly what any government-ordered insurance would be like, which is contrary to the cover story of what most gun control advocates promise in an insurance for firearms.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2019, 06:16:26 pm »
@Jazzhead  has been 100% upfront about wanting to register firearms...nothing backdoor about it.  The key takeaway from this story is San Jose's "insurance" scheme is exactly what any government-ordered insurance would be like, which is contrary to the cover story of what most gun control advocates promise in an insurance for firearms.

My understanding is that Federal law currently forbids gun registration. In that context, mandatory "insurance", however implemented, would be an end-around that Federal law, a back door opened by government collecting the insurers' data (or propped open if government is the "insurer").
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2019, 06:29:35 pm »
My understanding is that Federal law currently forbids gun registration. In that context, mandatory "insurance", however implemented, would be an end-around that Federal law, a back door opened by government collecting the insurers' data (or propped open if government is the "insurer").

That's exactly what it is.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2019, 06:36:45 pm »
My understanding is that Federal law currently forbids gun registration. In that context, mandatory "insurance", however implemented, would be an end-around that Federal law, a back door opened by government collecting the insurers' data (or propped open if government is the "insurer").
That's exactly what it is.

QFT, but you'll be called "paranoid" and "selfish" for noting it. *****rollingeyes*****
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: San Jose mayor: Why I’m requiring my residents to insure guns
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2019, 06:41:23 pm »
So this punishes poor people, mainly minorities, who wish to defend themselves.