Author Topic: Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally  (Read 4591 times)

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Offline Bigun

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Re: Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2020, 04:39:24 am »
@Bigun....can you supply a link.  I have not been able to locate this.

Nope!  That file resides on my personal computer and what you have seen is only a part of it.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2020, 05:58:43 am »
@Bigun....can you supply a link.  I have not been able to locate this.

I don't have the links, it's been a long time.  But I can describe an example.  The US was negotiating with Vietnam to normalize diplomatic relations.  Since somebody thought it would be brilliant to send McStaing, the POW from the Hanoi Hilton to take the lead as a powerful Senator.  When I looked today, I found the stories of abandoning the POWs buried under all the hagiographies about McCain came out when he kicked the bucket.  There's an example of history cleansing right there.

He turned his back on un-repatriated American POWs that were still there, despite the transparently false protests they didn't exist.  They were the inspiration for all those black flags you see from time to time, with "You Are Not Forgotten" written on them.  McCain decided, on his own I understand, to accept the lies from Vietnam and he abandoned them.  That was fine with the people running the government in 1995, so there they rot.   Gee, I wonder who that was?

Traitor, with other examples.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 06:01:27 am by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2020, 03:52:16 pm »
@Bigun....can you supply a link.  I have not been able to locate this.

@HikerGuy83, the Forrestal fire claim is false. Multiple variants of it have been around the Internet for a couple of decades. The particular variant @Bigun posted is based on a false claim about how the planes were arranged on the aft of the flight deck just prior to the fire. The map showing how the planes were staged for the strike that I posted in that same thread shows that McCain could not have triggered the Zuni rocket by starting his engine. Whoever wrote that variant of the Forrestal fire claim didn't know that in the mid-late 60s USN CVs no longer lined up planes for a strike the way it was done in WW2 on the much smaller Yorktown and Essex class CVs (IOW, whoever wrote that variant of the claim was unfamiliar with carrier operations).
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2020, 03:57:07 pm »
@HikerGuy83, the Forrestal fire claim is false. Multiple variants of it have been around the Internet for a couple of decades. The particular variant @Bigun posted is based on a false claim about how the planes were arranged on the aft of the flight deck just prior to the fire. The map showing how the planes were staged for the strike that I posted in that same thread shows that McCain could not have triggered the Zuni rocket by starting his engine. Whoever wrote that variant of the Forrestal fire claim didn't know that in the mid-late 60s USN CVs no longer lined up planes for a strike the way it was done in WW2 on the much smaller Yorktown and Essex class CVs (IOW, whoever wrote that variant of the claim was unfamiliar with carrier operations).

You are entitled to buy into the revisionist history you are trying to sell if you like @PeteS in CA.  The account included in my post is from someone who was there and fought the damned fire!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2020, 05:59:32 pm »
You are entitled to buy into the revisionist history you are trying to sell if you like @PeteS in CA.  The account included in my post is from someone who was there and fought the damned fire!

Stop with the silly buzzwords, @Bigun. It is not "revisionist history" that McCain's jet exhaust was pointed out to sea. And since McCain's jet exhaust was pointed away from and his A-4 was across the deck from all the F-4s it was simply impossible for McCain starting his engine to have triggered the Zuni.

Whoever really wrote that stupidly false account is so ignorant of modern carrier operations that his claimed scenario was based on how planes were spotted for strikes on WW2 Yorktown and Essex class carriers rather than modern practice. His scenario is also absurd even by normal WW2 practice. In spotting a strike, heavily loaded torpedo and dive bombers would be spotted behind fighters, because they needed more flight deck length to reach take-off speed.

So not only was the writer of that piece ignorant of how a strike would be spotted in the 1960s - lined along the edge of the flight deck aft - he also is ignorant of the order in which a WW2 strike would be spotted (bombers behind fighters).

The simple bottom line is that because McCain's exhaust was pointed out to sea away from all other strike aircraft, starting his engine could not have affected the Zuni rocket dozens of feet across the deck from McCain. You can throw around BS-buzzwords and condescend all you like, Bigun, but you can't cause jet exhaust to do a 180-degree change of direction.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2020, 06:19:29 pm »
Stop with the silly buzzwords, @Bigun. It is not "revisionist history" that McCain's jet exhaust was pointed out to sea. And since McCain's jet exhaust was pointed away from and his A-4 was across the deck from all the F-4s it was simply impossible for McCain starting his engine to have triggered the Zuni.

Whoever really wrote that stupidly false account is so ignorant of modern carrier operations that his claimed scenario was based on how planes were spotted for strikes on WW2 Yorktown and Essex class carriers rather than modern practice. His scenario is also absurd even by normal WW2 practice. In spotting a strike, heavily loaded torpedo and dive bombers would be spotted behind fighters, because they needed more flight deck length to reach take-off speed.

So not only was the writer of that piece ignorant of how a strike would be spotted in the 1960s - lined along the edge of the flight deck aft - he also is ignorant of the order in which a WW2 strike would be spotted (bombers behind fighters).

The simple bottom line is that because McCain's exhaust was pointed out to sea away from all other strike aircraft, starting his engine could not have affected the Zuni rocket dozens of feet across the deck from McCain. You can throw around BS-buzzwords and condescend all you like, Bigun, but you can't cause jet exhaust to do a 180-degree change of direction.

Were you there when the incident occurred @PeteS in CA?  I was not but the guy who originally wrote the account in what I posted definitely was and I tend to give great weight to firsthand knowledge.

I'm done with it. Nothing more to say on the subject.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2020, 07:39:16 pm »
Were you there when the incident occurred @PeteS in CA?  I was not but the guy who originally wrote the account in what I posted definitely was and I tend to give great weight to firsthand knowledge.

I'm done with it. Nothing more to say on the subject.

You already posted that you don't know where you got that article, so how do you know its writer was there? He claims to have been and you want to believe him? His ignorance of carrier operations proves he lied about being there.

Was I aboard the USS Forrestal? No. The people who contributed to the Navy investigation were:

https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20FORRESTAL%20FIRE%2012%20AUG%2069%20PT%201.pdf

https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20FORRESTAL%20FIRE%2012%20AUG%2069%20PT%202.pdf

https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20FORRESTAL%20FIRE%2012%20AUG%2069%20PT%203.pdf

The aircraft spotting diagram, also from people who were there, can be found by opening the pdf captioned "Article from Naval Aviation News, October 1967, compiled and edited by Senior Chief Journalist John D. Burlage" linked about 2/3 of the way down this webpage, https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/disasters-and-phenomena/forrestal-fire.html .

There was no physical way for McCain's engine start to have caused the Zuni rocket to launch. McCain's plane was many yards away, and his exhaust was pointed out to sea, not toward any plane.

These simple facts also disprove another variant of this McCain Caused the Forrestal Fire conspiracy theory that claims McCain's engine start ignited the spilled fuel.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline HikerGuy83

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Re: Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2020, 12:01:40 am »
Nope!  That file resides on my personal computer and what you have seen is only a part of it.


Thanks for letting me know.

Offline HikerGuy83

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Re: Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2020, 12:02:57 am »
You are entitled to buy into the revisionist history you are trying to sell if you like @PeteS in CA.  The account included in my post is from someone who was there and fought the damned fire!


I have no interest in sorting out that incident. 

His post contained a reference to McCain's temper that I wanted to utilize on another thread.

Sorry for the confusion.