Author Topic: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership  (Read 14186 times)

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #100 on: August 15, 2019, 01:22:45 pm »
Looks like some are fighting to include a literacy test for the purchase of a gun.  They have a pretty good shot at winning this one. 

 

:thumbsup:

@Right_in_Virginia

Why? What does literacy have to do with it?  Do you equate being illiterate with retardation?

Are there any other rights you don't want illiterate people to have?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 02:07:41 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #101 on: August 15, 2019, 01:27:23 pm »
I thought the following, from the Legal Information Institute at the Cornell Law School (one of the best sites around for finding good information on the law), was interesting enough to share:
 

This reinforces,  I think,  the point I have been trying to make that the "individual rights" theory of the 2A is one of two competing theories that have each found favor with the SCOTUS at different times.   The other view, the collective rights theory,  is supported by  ........

@Jazzhead

Quote
The other view, the collective rights theory,  is supported by  ........

"Collectivists". Sometimes it IS necessary to state the obvious
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 01:31:11 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #102 on: August 15, 2019, 01:31:43 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

Why? What does literacy have to do with it?  Do you equate being literacy with retardation?

Are there any other rights you don't want illiterate people to have?

@sneakypete think about what Literacy tests are associated with.

She wasn’t saying anything complimentary or useful towards any of us.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #103 on: August 15, 2019, 02:31:31 pm »
@sneakypete think about what Literacy tests are associated with.

She wasn’t saying anything complimentary or useful towards any of us.

@txradioguy

I sometimes like for posters to refine their thoughts so there is no confusion about what they implied. Especially on a subject as controversial these days as illiteracy. I suspect that illiteracy is rare these days outside the Dim strongholds that used to be referred to as "ghettos" ,but not so rare for the generation that are now on SS.

The man that adopted me was illiterate,and his wife only had a 5th grade education. Neither of which was uncommon for people of their generation. He had to quit school in the 3rd grade to go to work at a boatyard as a laborer after his father died to help support  his mother and 5 brothers and sisters. Later on,after he was married,he and my mother took in her nephew to raise after his parents were killed in a car wreck,and then adopted me maybe 10 years later. After I joined the army and left,they tried to adopt again,but were turned down due to age and illnesses.

The woman who raised me had a similar backstory. Her mother and father both died in the flue epidemic of 1918,and both she and her little sister were saved by the only social organization at the time that had the ability to help orphans,the KKK. The Klan put them both with a one-legged Civil War veteran who was having a tough time taking care of himself. She told me the way it was explained to her and him was "You need someone to cook,clean and help you around the house,and these little girls need a place to live. In return,you feed and clothe them and send them to school."

The Klan had to come back a year or so later and remind him of the deal he had agreed to,though. She never told me what led up to it other than he started drinking a lot,but she told me that one Friday night they showed up on horseback and carrying torches,and called him out in the yard and "laid down the law to him". According to my mother,the head Kluxxer told him "Old man,we have received word that you are not sending these little girls to school,and that you are not buying groceries and other items appropriate for little girls,but are spending most of your money on whiskey. If we ever hear of this happening again we will come back,and I will tie to to that tree in the corner of your yard,and beat you with a horsewhip until my arm gets tired." My mother told me they never again had a single problem with that old man right up to the day he died.

Anyhow,at the time my mother and father were children,it was not uncommon to see children AND adults that were illiterate because many children had to work to help support their families. That does NOT mean or even imply any  of them were retarded.

I will grant you that these days illiteracy amongst the native-born is rare,but I suppose it must exist at some level.

Still,illiteracy isn't an issue in regard to voting rights these days. Even illiterate people have access to news via radio and tv,plus talking with their neighbors.

Retardation isn't really a problem in LEGAL voting because it's obvious these people can't cast an informed vote. Yes,I AM positive retards vote on a regular basis in Dim districts,but so do dead people,imaginary people,and even cartoon characters. This won't be stopped because the DNC doesn't want it stopped. IMHO,it could be fairly stated that "Retards are the base voters for the DNC."
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #104 on: August 15, 2019, 11:10:13 pm »
@sneakypete think about what Literacy tests are associated with.

She wasn’t saying anything complimentary or useful towards any of us.

@txradioguy

I understand it is a BoZo NoNo to mention the word "illiteracy" today because the Tan Klan and their allies in the media claim it is always a code word slamming them,but it just ain't true.

There are more illiterate and poor white people in this country than there are black people,and always has been. Not to mention poor brown people.

I have heard the term "white trash" in reference to illiterate whites my entire life,and honestly don't remember much mention of blacks,one way or the other until after I was an adult and away from home. We just never had any problems with the local blacks,and they never had any problems with us.

And white people from the north have no trouble at all assuming that all working class whites in the south are "white trash" because we are not "sophisticated enough to live in a rat condo in NYC".

The white man that raised me was illiterate. Not because he was stupid,but because he had to quit school in the 3rd grade and go to work to help support his family. Couldn't read a word by the time he was an adult,and it was painful to watch him try to sign his name.  He wasn't stupid,though,and he damn sure wasn't lazy.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #105 on: August 16, 2019, 12:49:03 pm »
@Jazzhead

"Collectivists". Sometimes it IS necessary to state the obvious

Also obvious is that the Supreme Court held the collective rights view of the 2A for almost 70 years, and only changed its view by reason of a 5 - 4 vote.   Should it revert to its earlier view,  the states will not be restricted by the 2A from banning entire classes of firearms and worse.   Nor will Congress in passing such bans at a federal level.   

This reality ought to focus the mind,  and get some of you all off your mountaintops.   
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #106 on: August 16, 2019, 01:03:05 pm »
Also obvious is that the Supreme Court held the collective rights view of the 2A for almost 70 years, and only changed its view by reason of a 5 - 4 vote.   Should it revert to its earlier view,  the states will not be restricted by the 2A from banning entire classes of firearms and worse.   Nor will Congress in passing such bans at a federal level.   

This reality ought to focus the mind,  and get some of you all off your mountaintops.   
If you are referring to Miller, that decision was rife with errors. The court even failed to recognize that Shotguns are and have been (and still are) a military weapon, not just for duck hunting.
There is nothing more collective than "The People", to whom the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is reserved.
Nothing you say changes that fact, it's there in black and white.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 01:04:28 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #107 on: August 16, 2019, 01:09:44 pm »
If you are referring to Miller, that decision was rife with errors. The court even failed to recognize that Shotguns are and have been (and still are) a military weapon, not just for duck hunting.
There is nothing more collective than "The People", to whom the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is reserved.
Nothing you say changes that fact, it's there in black and white.

You're in denial, sir. 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #108 on: August 16, 2019, 01:23:38 pm »
You're in denial, sir.
Nope. Wrong again. I'm in North Dakota.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #109 on: August 16, 2019, 01:49:40 pm »
Also obvious is that the Supreme Court held the collective rights view of the 2A for almost 70 years, and only changed its view by reason of a 5 - 4 vote.   Should it revert to its earlier view,  the states will not be restricted by the 2A from banning entire classes of firearms and worse.   Nor will Congress in passing such bans at a federal level.

States can try to ban entire classes and they'll get taken to court over it and lose.  Just like the city of New York is about to lose the case that was filed against it by the NYSRPA.

This "state level" bans think will happen...Heller and McDonald are the caselaw which will shoot any more attempts by a state to ban weapons or classes of weapons.   

Quote
This reality ought to focus the mind,  and get some of you all off your mountaintops.   

Physician heal thyself.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #110 on: August 16, 2019, 01:50:32 pm »
You're in denial, sir.

Considering you completely deny what is plainly written in the 2nd Amendment...that's a bit of pot and kettle from you.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #111 on: August 16, 2019, 01:56:55 pm »
Quote
“Red flag” laws are now all the rage in the Beltway as the magic pill to prevent homicidal maniacs from wreaking havoc on the nation. Even President Trump has endorsed the idea of preemptively confiscating people’s firearms if they are deemed a “threat.”

But if you want to know how this American version of China’s social credit system would work in practice, let me remind you of how Veterans Affairs recklessly red-flags “disruptive” citizens without due process, transparency or accountability in the name of “safety.” Government bureaucrats routinely deprive our nation’s heroes of medical treatment based on arbitrary definitions of who and what constitutes a mental health menace.

Under the VA policy on “patient record flags,” federal bureaucrats can classify vets as “threats” based on assessments of their “difficult,” “annoying” and “noncompliant” behavior. The VA manual says the flags “are used to alert Veterans Health Administration medical staff and employees of patients whose behavior and characteristics may pose a threat either to their safety, the safety of other patients, or compromise the delivery of quality health care.”

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/08/12/how-the-va-red-flags-patriots-should-raise-alarms/
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #112 on: August 16, 2019, 02:04:31 pm »
States can try to ban entire classes and they'll get taken to court over it and lose.  Just like the city of New York is about to lose the case that was filed against it by the NYSRPA.

This "state level" bans think will happen...Heller and McDonald are the caselaw which will shoot any more attempts by a state to ban weapons or classes of weapons.   

Correct!   State law bans should be able to be overturned on the basis of Heller and McDonald.   But my point is that the 2A applies to secure your rights ONLY because of Heller and McDonald.    Those decisions are as vulnerable to potential reversal - and I'd argue they are significantly more vulnerable - than Roe v. Wade. 

Quit fighting with your allies and focus your approbation on your enemies.  I am not your enemy - just your friend trying to knock some common sense into you. 
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #113 on: August 16, 2019, 02:05:55 pm »
Considering you completely deny what is plainly written in the 2nd Amendment...that's a bit of pot and kettle from you.

What is plainly written in the 2A is the predicate clause.   
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #114 on: August 16, 2019, 02:15:49 pm »
What is plainly written in the 2A is the predicate clause.

No what is plainly written...to anyone who isn't hell bent on violating our guaranteed rights (you) is this:

Quote
the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Most of us here are arguing over protecting a guaranteed Constitutional right....you're arguing over a comma.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #115 on: August 16, 2019, 02:21:25 pm »
But my point is that the 2A applies to secure your rights ONLY because of Heller and McDonald.    Those decisions are as vulnerable to potential reversal

And there's where you continually and consistently go off the rails and show a complete lack of understanding of the Second Amendment in General and what Heller and McDonald did in relation to the Second Amendment specifically.

Heller and McDonald reaffirmed what has been written in stone for over 200 years.  They were necessary because of people like you that insist on arguing over a comma.



Quote
Quit fighting with your allies and focus your approbation on your enemies.  I am not your enemy - just your friend trying to knock some common sense into you.

When it comes to the Second Amendment what it means and how it relates to the schemes and regulation plans you want to implement against it...you're not a friend and you're damn sure not an ally.

And you and common sense aren't even on speaking terms on this issue.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #116 on: August 16, 2019, 02:28:56 pm »
 *****rollingeyes*****
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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #117 on: August 16, 2019, 02:30:58 pm »
Imagine if a government official treated other rights the way Jazzy wants the 2nd Amendment handled? Could a police officer search your home without a warrant if you didn’t have some state documentation showing you particularly needed your Fourth Amendment rights? Could a district attorney require you to testify against yourself unless you somehow proved to their satisfaction that you really, really needed your Fifth Amendment rights?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #118 on: August 16, 2019, 02:43:55 pm »

Quit fighting with your allies and focus your approbation on your enemies.  I am not your enemy - just your friend trying to knock some common sense into you.

BUUULLSHIT. You most certainly ARE the enemy.

ANYONE who tries to mess with my natural rights is not my ally.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #119 on: August 16, 2019, 02:46:51 pm »
What is plainly written in the 2A is the predicate clause.

 *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes*****
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #120 on: August 16, 2019, 03:23:13 pm »
And this kinda thing, right here, is exactly why I am no longer a Republican, and probably never will be again.

*SPIT*

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #121 on: August 16, 2019, 04:29:22 pm »
*****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes***** *****rollingeyes*****

The Founders put that predicate clause there.   Direct your roll-eyes at them, not me.   
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #122 on: August 16, 2019, 04:37:49 pm »
BUUULLSHIT.    ANYONE who tries to mess with my natural rights is not my ally.

Your very words explain how the survivors of gun rampages and the family, friends and associates of the dead feel about you messing with the natural right to life  --- so maybe, just maybe you'll give some thought to turning down the sanctimony and rhetoric.  Both are over the top.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #123 on: August 16, 2019, 04:53:37 pm »
The Founders put that predicate clause there.   Direct your roll-eyes at them, not me.

The rolls are directed at your words, not the language of the 2nd.  This is the fifth or so turn around your circular argument.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #124 on: August 16, 2019, 05:01:11 pm »
The rolls are directed at your words, not the language of the 2nd.  This is the fifth or so turn around your circular argument.

I don't know how you guys can see out of the rut that has been worn around this particular bush. 
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