House GOP fears retirement wave will lead to tsunami

[XenaLee]

You are better than that. People standing upon principle are not pouting.
What is it you expect to gain from such language?
Because I assure you - Your words do not benefit your cause.

The only problem with standing upon principle is.... sometimes you find that all you have left to stand on...

is a steaming, heaping pile of ashes (and I'm being nice here).

If you sit out 2020 and don't vote against the left (I know, I know... let's not go there again).....

you'll have only yourself and others like you to blame for what you end up with.  (think.. even worse than "ashes")

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Jazzhead

McConnell might say a few good things about Trump sometimes, but the two are not buds.

Trump will turn, instantly, on anyone who suggests to him that he should not run for re-election for the good of the party.  Maybe Ivanka or his wife could get away with it, but no chance in hell any Republican who attempted that wouldn't become No. 1 on Trump's Twitter shitlist overnight.  And a guy like McConnell knows that if that happens, it would tear the party apart much worse than just letting Trump play out the string.

[libertybele]

I see Trump as someone cognizant of his legacy,  and willing to listen to hard advice from others.   He's certainly backed away from certain positions on the advice of others.   He is also a true citizen President and,  I believe, an accidental one who was as surprised as anyone else when he won.   I can easily see him as lacking the megalomaniacal bent of someone who seeks power for his own sake.    I think he believes he's done well for nation and wants his policies to continue.   And I also believe that there's a side of him that wants to get back to his family and businesses.   

What I can foresee is Mitch McConnell meeting with the President and explaining that the prospects for the Senate are very dire,  and that the best way to retain Trump's policies and priorities is to pass the baton to a successor who can address and defend those policies on the merits without all the emotional baggage of the Trump-hate soap opera.   And in the process, save the Senate and perhaps even flip the House.   The number of Senate seats we need to defend in 2020 is very similar to the lopsided number the Dems had to defend in 2018.    Even if Trump is re-elected,  if the Senate is lost the next four years will be hell for him.   The time to escape is now - the economy is good,  and Trump's issues - immigration, growth, conservative judges - are potential winners.    With a new standard bearer - a Trump ally like Chaney or Pence or Haley -  Trump can retire in satisfaction and allow what he started to continue, grow and thrive.

A standard bearer like Cheney or Pence or Haley  --- not thrilled with Pence, but Cheney or Haley might be ok.  Again, would they be able to withstand and survive the mud slinging, lies and accusations from the left?  Secondly, and most importantly, last time I checked neither are running for President.  So wishful thinking is just that, wishful thinking. 

I completely understand what you are saying and understand your fears and concerns about Trump.  The reality is again, he isn't stepping down; and if he should at the last minute or within the next six months then the GOP is royally screwed as there is no one to replace him that has the kind of $$$ nor the ground game that is going to be needed to defeat the left.  That is reality.

[libertybele]

The only problem with standing upon principle is.... sometimes you find that all you have left to stand on...

is a steaming, heaping pile of ashes (and I'm being nice here).

If you sit out 2020 and don't vote against the left (I know, I know... let's not go there again).....

you'll have only yourself and others like you to blame for what you end up with.  (think.. even worse than "ashes")

I can't think of any DEM running that doesn't go against the very principles that I stand for...so again...I will vote AGAINST the radical left and vote Trump in order to stop them. 

[sneakypete]

What, no Trump re-election wave?     

Let's face reality, folks -  Trump as the nominee drags down the GOP ticket.    This has always been my greatest fear - not so much that a Democrat wins the Presidency, but that the GOP loses its Senate majority and the Dems can pillage at will.

@Jazzhead

You can't be THAT afraid of it or you wouldn't be here every day making negative posts about Trump in order to help it happen.

[Applewood]

...
If you sit out 2020 and don't vote against the left (I know, I know... let's not go there again).....

you'll have only yourself and others like you to blame for what you end up with.
...

Well, I din't know about @roamer_1  but I am not going to take responsibility for a Dem takeover of the presidency, house and possibly the senate.  I will blame Republicans, including Trump, for lying to us voters and making promises they had no intention of keeping.  They sat on their fat rears and did nothing for years -- even before Trump came along -- and now they want  us to vote for them again?  Sorry.  I won't be fooled again. 

If Republicans would get their act together, agree on a uniform platform that they all agree on that reflects what voters want, and put forth candidates voters would elect -- yes, I would vote Republican again.  But I don't see any of that happening anytime soon.

And voting for Republicans does not "save us" from the Democrats.  Republicans won't admit it, but they want many of the same things the Democrats want.  They just want to get those things at a slower pace.

[roamer_1]

The only problem with standing upon principle is.... sometimes you find that all you have left to stand on...

is a steaming, heaping pile of ashes (and I'm being nice here).

So principle - TRUTH - can be discarded?
That is just nonsense.

If you sit out 2020 and don't vote against the left (I know, I know... let's not go there again).....

you'll have only yourself and others like you to blame for what you end up with.  (think.. even worse than "ashes")

I will sit it out, unless there is a Conservative to vote for.
I have no dog in this hunt. There is not a single principled thing being defended here.

This is the same stupid 'lesser evil' bullshit I get fed every election year.
NO SALE.

Give me something to vote *FOR*

[libertybele]

@Jazzhead you still haven't proposed what can be done.  All you are stating is what you hope happens and who you hope runs against Trump.  Big difference between what is actually happening and what you would like to see happen.

Are you involved in any campaign push/ground game to get Haley or Cheney nominated; perhaps they are planning to announce in the near future and you are privy to that information??

[roamer_1]

Well, I din't know about @roamer_1  but I am not going to take responsibility for a Dem takeover of the presidency, house and possibly the senate.  I will blame Republicans, including Trump, for lying to us voters and making promises they had no intention of keeping.  They sat on their fat rears and did nothing for years -- even before Trump came along -- and now they want  us to vote for them again?  Sorry.  I won't be fooled again. 

If Republicans would get their act together, agree on a uniform platform that they all agree on that reflects what voters want, and put forth candidates voters would elect -- yes, I would vote Republican again.  But I don't see any of that happening anytime soon.

And voting for Republicans does not "save us" from the Democrats.  Republicans won't admit it, but they want many of the same things the Democrats want.  They just want to get those things at a slower pace.

That's right. Right on the money.

[libertybele]

So principle - TRUTH - can be discarded?
That is just nonsense.

I will sit it out, unless there is a Conservative to vote for.
I have no dog in this hunt. There is not a single principled thing being defended here.

This is the same stupid 'lesser evil' bullshit I get fed every election year.
NO SALE.


Give me something to vote *FOR*

Well, in that case I am voting for low unemployment, stronger economy, some headway at the border, tax cuts, retention of the 2A, and a pro-Israel stance.

[roamer_1]

Well, in that case I am voting for low unemployment, stronger economy, some headway at the border, tax cuts, retention of the 2A, and a pro-Israel stance.

Nothing more than justification... candy thrown from the clown at the head of the parade.
And the beat goes on.

[sneakypete]

Well, I din't know about @roamer_1  but I am not going to take responsibility for a Dem takeover of the presidency, house and possibly the senate.  I will blame Republicans, including Trump, for lying to us voters and making promises they had no intention of keeping.  They sat on their fat rears and did nothing for years -- even before Trump came along -- and now they want  us to vote for them again?  Sorry.  I won't be fooled again. 

 

@Applewood

Nothing is ever your fault,is it?

[Jazzhead]

Exactly how are you foreseeing that?  Where is there a shred of evidence that McConnell is even considering doing that, and hasn't concluded that any such effort is likely to lead to Trump lumping McConnell himself in with guys like Flake?

You're inventing a scenario that seems to you like it has a chance of succeeding.  The problem is that there is zero evidence that McConnell or anyone else in power agrees that the effort should be made.

The situation is fluid.   Remember,  it has only been in the last three weeks that Trump has tweeted for folks to go back to their own countries and denounced an entire city as unfit for human habitation.    It is now, just within the last three weeks,  that the mainstream media has given up all pretense of respect for the Presidency and concluded that Trump is "racist" and deserves not re-election but prison.   

Cannot folks see that this is all becoming a fatal distraction from the issues that matter -  growth, immigration,  conservative judges?  We can win on these issues - but can we do so through the dense fog of unrelenting Trump-hate?    I want to plant the seed that Trump's nomination and likely defeat is NOT inevitable,  and that his reason and legacy CAN be appealed to. 

I think sometimes that folks are resigned to riding this runaway train all the way to the bottom.    That's nuts.   It is time to suggest to the President that he has done well by changing the nation's direction,  but that a new leader is needed to prevent a reaction that will destroy all that he has accomplished. 

[edpc]

And I can't see Trump and McConnell meeting, let alone Trump taking any advice Mc Connell may give him.  From the start, Trump alienated his own party.

Except that’s exactly what he did, during the Camp David meeting, and January 2018. He swore off insurgent candidates, then went all in with establishment types for the midterm strategy. Back in May 2017, he was threatening the freedom caucus with primary challenges. Now, those remaining are among his biggest supporters. The most predictable thing about Weathervane Donny is that he is unpredictable. In the last decade, he’s been on both sides of just about every major issue.

[Jazzhead]

 The most predictable thing about Weathervane Donny is that he is unpredictable. In the last decade, he’s been on both sides of just about every major issue.

That's right!   And it is why I do not believe that Trump cannot be appealed to.   What he wants is his legacy.   To get it,  that legacy must be preserved.   

[skeeter]

The situation is fluid.   Remember,  it has only been in the last three weeks that Trump has tweeted for folks to go back to their own countries and denounced an entire city as unfit for human habitation.    It is now, just within the last three weeks,  that the mainstream media has given up all pretense of respect for the Presidency and concluded that Trump is "racist" and deserves not re-election but prison.   

Cannot folks see that this is all becoming a fatal distraction from the issues that matter -  growth, immigration,  conservative judges?  We can win on these issues - but can we do so through the dense fog of unrelenting Trump-hate?    I want to plant the seed that Trump's nomination and likely defeat is NOT inevitable,  and that his reason and legacy CAN be appealed to. 

I think sometimes that folks are resigned to riding this runaway train all the way to the bottom.    That's nuts.   It is time to suggest to the President that he has done well by changing the nation's direction,  but that a new leader is needed to prevent a reaction that will destroy all that he has accomplished.

"The press has given up all pretense of respect" for Trump.

Honestly?

[sneakypete]

So principle - TRUTH - can be discarded?
That is just nonsense.

I will sit it out, unless there is a Conservative to vote for.
I have no dog in this hunt. There is not a single principled thing being defended here.

This is the same stupid 'lesser evil' bullshit I get fed every election year.
NO SALE.

Give me something to vote *FOR*

@roamer_1

I think you are delusional and live in a fantasy world.

None the less,your "vision" DOES qualify as a religion because it does not preach mandatory worship,military conquest,or the creation of a religious police state. Which Islam does and has always done.

See? It's not hard to determine the difference between an actual religion,and a police state disguised as a religion.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

I think you are delusional and live in a fantasy world.

None the less,your "vision" DOES qualify as a religion because it does not preach mandatory worship,military conquest,or the creation of a religious police state. Which Islam does and has always done.

See? It's not hard to determine the difference between an actual religion,and a police state disguised as a religion.

@sneakypete

What the hell are you goin on about now?

[Applewood]

Well, in that case I am voting for low unemployment, stronger economy, some headway at the border, tax cuts, retention of the 2A, and a pro-Israel stance.

Well, that rosy economy is already showing signs of falling apart.  Not that I've seen the low employment in my area that everyone talks about.

Neither Trump nor either of the two major parties give a flying fig about the border problem.  If they did, they would have done something by now. 

Tax cuts?  What happened to that?  There was a tax tweak that didn't benefit most of the people I know.  We were promised more would come, but I haven't seen it yet and I doubt we will.

Second Amendment?  Well, I'm not so sure either party cares about that.  There have been "bipartisan gun control measures" floating around. Look for some kind of gun  control , no matter which party is in charge.

And how pro-Israel is this country if it's selling arms to Saudi Arabia? 

You are looking for things to happen that have been promised for a long time.  If these promises haven't been kept by now, what makes you think if Trump and the Republicans remain in charge or get back in charge that those promises will be kept?

[Jazzhead]

Nothing more than justification... candy thrown from the clown at the head of the parade.
And the beat goes on.

No, those aren't candy, but specific policies that will be continued if the Republicans prevail and abolished if the Dems win.   "Priniciple"  and a buck fifty gets you a Diet Coke.   The starving man wants a full loaf, but can survive on just a half.    If the Dems sweep the government,  they will be in a position to impose socialism and break your back.   

At times a pragmatic vote is necessary.   But it is still too early to resort to that. 

[libertybele]

Nothing more than justification... candy thrown from the clown at the head of the parade.
And the beat goes on.

??? Are you denying that the economy has been better under Trump than Bammy and that unemployment is down, we still have rights under the 2A and he's taken a pro-stance with Israel?

[roamer_1]

Well, that rosy economy is already showing signs of falling apart.  Not that I've seen the low employment in my area that everyone talks about.

Neither Trump nor either of the two major parties give a flying fig about the border problem.  If they did, they would have done something by now. 

Tax cuts?  What happened to that?  There was a tax tweak that didn't benefit most of the people I know.  We were promised more would come, but I haven't seen it yet and I doubt we will.

Second Amendment?  Well, I'm not so sure either party cares about that.  There have been "bipartisan gun control measures" floating around. Look for some kind of gun  control , no matter which party is in charge.

And how pro-Israel is this country if it's selling arms to Saudi Arabia? 

You are looking for things to happen that have been promised for a long time.  If these promises haven't been kept by now, what makes you think if Trump and the Republicans remain in charge or get back in charge that those promises will be kept?

 

[Applewood]

@Applewood

Nothing is ever your fault,is it?

@sneakypete

No, that would be your hero, Trump. 

[libertybele]

No, those aren't candy, but specific policies that will be continued if the Republicans prevail and abolished if the Dems win.   "Priniciple"  and a buck fifty gets you a Diet Coke.   The starving man wants a full loaf, but can survive on just a half.    If the Dems sweep the government,  they will be in a position to impose socialism and break your back.   

At times a pragmatic vote is necessary.   But it is still too early to resort to that.

There is absolutely no denying the fact that Trump has 'rebooted' the economy and brought unemployment down.  As far as black unemployment it is the lowest in History; so truly it's not just a matter if 'any' Republican prevails against a DEM.   

IF the DEMS sweep government you are absolutely correct; they will impose socialism.  That is one of the very reasons why I am voting for Trump -- to prevent that from happening.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The situation is fluid.   Remember,  it has only been in the last three weeks that Trump has tweeted for folks to go back to their own countries and denounced an entire city as unfit for human habitation.    It is now, just within the last three weeks,  that the mainstream media has given up all pretense of respect for the Presidency and concluded that Trump is "racist" and deserves not re-election but prison.   

Wow.  The "you're a racist" theme, and the idea that the press had a moral obligation to take sides predated even the election.  I honestly can't think of a single mainstream media outlet that now views the President any differently than they viewed him on January 20,2017.  They viewed him as a racist from the moment he made the comment about some Mexican illegals, and it's never changed.

Cannot folks see that this is all becoming a fatal distraction from the issues that matter -  growth, immigration,  conservative judges?  We can win on these issues - but can we do so through the dense fog of unrelenting Trump-hate?    I want to plant the seed that Trump's nomination and likely defeat is NOT inevitable, and that his reason and legacy CAN be appealed to.

Can you point us all to even one instant where Trump has done a significant mea culpa on anything close to the magnitude of what you're asking here?  One instance of him acknowledging that anything he has done since becoming President has been a screw-up?  Because that's the first threshhold he'd have to reach before even considering stepping aside.  And I see absolutely zero evidence of that.

I think sometimes that folks are resigned to riding this runaway train all the way to the bottom.    That's nuts.   It is time to suggest to the President that he has done well by changing the nation's direction,  but that a new leader is needed to prevent a reaction that will destroy all that he has accomplished.

You keep arguing that Trump needs to see things the way you do.  You haven't put forth any evidence -- literally any, at all -- that he actually does see things that way.