Author Topic: Trump tells progressive Democrats to go back and fix 'broken and crime infested places' they came fr (Read 13285 times)

musiclady · « **Reply #375 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:10:32 pm »

Quote from: XenaLee on July 23, 2019, 04:05:56 pm

Cool. So we agree on one thing today, at least. lol

And we both love this country dearly...................... or what is left of it.

Maj. Bill Martin · « **Reply #376 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:15:45 pm »

Quote from: musiclady on July 23, 2019, 04:09:59 pm

What you have stated is an opinion and not a "fact."

Nor is the accusation that others who are patriotic Conservatives who have loved this country as long, or longer than you have, and have made a thoughtful decision that voting for Trump is not in the best interest of the country we love, are supporting the Dems. It is just your opinion.

And it is incorrect.

Well, what is a fact is that the fewer people that vote for Trump, the more likely it is that Warren, or Sanders, or Buttigieg, or Biden will win. Those who argue for and encourage other people not to vote for Trump are making it even more likely that one of those Democrats will win. That also is a fact.

However, whether or not encouraging people not to vote for Trump amounts to "support" for those Democrats is a matter of opinion and/or semantics.

musiclady · « **Reply #377 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:19:51 pm »

Quote from: Maj. Bill Martin on July 23, 2019, 04:15:45 pm

Well, what is a fact is that the fewer people that vote for Trump, the more likely it is that Warren, or Sanders, or Buttigieg, or Biden will win. Those who argue for and encourage other people not to vote for Trump are making it even more likely that one of those Democrats will win. That also is a fact.

However, whether or not encouraging people not to vote for Trump amounts to "support" for those Democrats is a matter of opinion and/or semantics.

In 2016, I hated Hillary, and did not vote for Trump (in a swing state).

Hillary did not win.

That is also a fact, is it not?

If one states one's view that his or her conscience has not changed since 2016, and again will not vote for Trump, it is not a matter of "opinion and/or semantics" to make the accusation that he or she is supporting the Dems.

It is patently false.

Bigun · « **Reply #378 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:22:15 pm »

I personally try to look at every race on my ballot objectively and vote for the most conservative person available in every single one of them.

I only get to vote in exactly four federal races (President, Two senators, and one congressman) and not all of those in the same election year. Sometimes it's three, other times only two and I make my selections in those races based on the results I have seen from them as individual members, not what they tweet or say is slick campaign ads.

As of today, I fully intend to vote for President Trump in 2020 and hope that someone shows up on the scene who can defeat my worthless Senator (John Cornyn) and Congressman (Kevin Brady). I will NOT vote for any Democrat in any race at any level.

My current state rep is a Democrat who ran as a Republican only because he knew he could not win here as a Democrat but he votes with them at every turn when the legislature is in secession so no vote from me for him under any condition.

roamer_1 · « **Reply #379 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:22:32 pm »

Quote from: XenaLee on July 23, 2019, 03:42:55 pm

My vote is against the Democrats, the radical leftists, Obama, Soros & Co. and every other swingin dyck leftist in America. It has nothing to do with any "endorsement". It's a vote for our nation's survival.

@XenaLee
Sorry darlin. You cannot vote 'against'. Your vote is an endorsement. You are voting *for*.

And that's nothing but a fact.

Sanguine · « **Reply #380 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:23:27 pm »

Quote from: roamer_1 on July 23, 2019, 04:22:32 pm

@XenaLee
Sorry darlin. You cannot vote 'against'. Your vote is an endorsement. You are voting *for*.

And that's nothing but a fact.

Oh, hell, no! I voted against Hillary last time around.

roamer_1 · « **Reply #381 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:25:09 pm »

Quote from: Maj. Bill Martin on July 23, 2019, 04:02:00 pm

Does your state permit you to vote in the Republican primary even if you are not a registered Republican?

Yes, we have an open primary.

Bigun · « **Reply #382 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:26:10 pm »

Quote from: Sanguine on July 23, 2019, 04:23:27 pm

Oh, hell, no! I voted against Hillary last time around.

As did I! And as I will against my current state rep who CALLS himself a Republican.

Maj. Bill Martin · « **Reply #383 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:27:14 pm »

Quote from: musiclady on July 23, 2019, 04:19:51 pm

If one states one's view that his or her conscience has not changed since 2016, and again will not vote for Trump, it is not a matter of "opinion and/or semantics" to make the accusation that he or she is supporting the Dems.

It is patently false.

Here is what I actually said:

Quote from: Maj. Bill Martin on July 23, 2019, 04:15:45 pm

However, whether or not encouraging people not to vote for Trump amounts to "support" for those Democrats is a matter of opinion and/or semantics.

I did not say that that it was "opinion and/or semantics" as to whether merely refraining from voting yourself was "support" for Democrats.

EdJames · « **Reply #384 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:28:51 pm »

Quote from: musiclady on July 23, 2019, 04:19:51 pm

In 2016, I hated Hillary, and did not vote for Trump (in a swing state).

Hillary did not win.

That is also a fact, is it not?
...

It is more of a historical anecdote that may, or may not, have any bearing on 2020.

roamer_1 · « **Reply #385 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:30:36 pm »

Quote from: Sanguine on July 23, 2019, 04:23:27 pm

Oh, hell, no! I voted against Hillary last time around.

Nope. That is a categorical error... Your endorsement, I assume, went into Tumpy the Clown's column. That is voting *for*.

mystery-ak · « **Reply #386 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:43:35 pm »

In other news...all posted on TBR

Trump slams Tlaib as 'lunatic' over resurfaced protest video

Senate confirms Esper to be Trump's defense chief

Conservatives erupt in outrage against budget deal

TomSea · « **Reply #387 on:** July 23, 2019, 04:44:15 pm »

So you didn't vote for him, conservative on finance issues, liberal on social issues and we who voted for him racked up wins, you didn't, you abandoned the cause and that's a fact. No time to wallow in my self-importance, we are always a generation away from losing our freedoms. This just gives us a respite for a time.

Sure, go ahead with your great opinion, I didn't vote for Trump to avoid nuclear war, I didn't vote for Trump, I found that to be more important than the rights of the unborn.

musiclady · « **Reply #388 on:** July 23, 2019, 05:29:29 pm »

Quote from: Maj. Bill Martin on July 23, 2019, 04:27:14 pm

Here is what I actually said:

I did not say that that it was "opinion and/or semantics" as to whether merely refraining from voting yourself was "support" for Democrats.

Aha............... using semantics to make your point.

So I may refrain from voting for Trump, but I may not tell anyone that I am not, nor why I am not?

Is that where your line is drawn?

musiclady · « **Reply #389 on:** July 23, 2019, 05:31:18 pm »

Quote from: EdJames on July 23, 2019, 04:28:51 pm

It is more of a historical anecdote that may, or may not, have any bearing on 2020.

You may diminish the truth of what happened to an "historical anecdote," but that does not change the FACT that my vote for a third party (Conservative) candidate did not result in the election of Hillary Clinton.

musiclady · « **Reply #390 on:** July 23, 2019, 05:32:21 pm »

Quote from: Sanguine on July 23, 2019, 04:23:27 pm

Oh, hell, no! I voted against Hillary last time around.

As did I.

musiclady · « **Reply #391 on:** July 23, 2019, 05:45:06 pm »

Quote from: sneakypete on July 23, 2019, 01:59:48 pm

@musiclady

True,what we REALLY need is a Catholic Priest to run the country and add some much-needed morality,huh?

Or if you don't like Catholics,how about Jimmy Swaggart? Is he still alive?

Maybe we can replace Congress with the 700 Club?

Just want to make one more point to illustrate how abjectly ignorant your knee jerk response to me was.

Many in the so-called "evangelical religious right," are basically demanding that Christians vote FOR Trump. They are pretty much looking at him as the Messiah.

IOW, they are at polar opposites with me on this subject, and love Trump (much as you do, albeit for slightly different reasons).

ERGO, my call for a return to a morality (as in George Washington's, John Adams' and James Madison's view) and your subsequent response with some gobbledygook about the 700 club, makes you look even worse.

Inform yourself before you go on the attack, @sneakypete .

It might prevent such silliness on your part in the future.

Maj. Bill Martin · « **Reply #392 on:** July 23, 2019, 05:56:12 pm »

Quote from: musiclady on July 23, 2019, 05:29:29 pm

Aha............... using semantics to make your point.

So I may refrain from voting for Trump, but I may not tell anyone that I am not, nor why I am not?

Is that where your line is drawn?

No, you are absolutely free to tell anyone you want why you didn't vote for Trump. Free country and all that, and that's true regardless of what I or anyone else says.

But if you choose to advocate in favor of others not voting for Trump, then the question of whether or not you are helping to elect his general election opponent is within the realm of reasonable opinion. I mean, if I was trying to convince people that they should vote for Trump, wouldn't it be fair to say that I was helping him get elected? Seems reasonable to say that if someone is trying to convince people not to vote for Trump, that they are helping his opponent get elected. Doesn't seem far off.

Again, I'm not saying that refusing to vote yourself for the guy is helping the Democrat. I don't think that is. But I do believe advocacy that others shouldn't vote for him either seems to cross the line into helping elect the Democrat.

Feels free to disagree -- as I said, it's just opinion.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #393 on:** July 23, 2019, 06:02:01 pm »

My dear @musiclady --- please stop begging for dispensation. It's becoming painful to read,

Truth: You are going to vote your conscience as is every other member of this Forum. There will be discussions about the choices -- that's what we do here; so brace yourself.

Apparently, you see your choice as a badge of honor. That's great, but expecting others to come by and shine it for you--- is simply a bit much.

Cyber Liberty · « **Reply #394 on:** July 23, 2019, 06:06:40 pm »

Quote from: mystery-ak on July 23, 2019, 04:43:35 pm

In other news...all posted on TBR

Trump slams Tlaib as 'lunatic' over resurfaced protest video

Senate confirms Esper to be Trump's defense chief

Conservatives erupt in outrage against budget deal

Hi all!!

I provided links to the above stories, to give y'all something to read while this thread is locked for an hour or five....

Cyber Liberty · « **Reply #395 on:** July 23, 2019, 07:49:11 pm »

OK, I'm unlocking this tread now. Please don't keep fighting each other, or at least come up with some fresh arguments!

Cyber Liberty · « **Reply #396 on:** July 23, 2019, 07:50:05 pm »

Ping @Bigun

rustynail · « **Reply #397 on:** July 23, 2019, 08:18:04 pm »

Joshua went up to him and asked, "Are you one of us or one of our enemies?"

musiclady · « **Reply #398 on:** July 23, 2019, 08:24:56 pm »

Quote from: Maj. Bill Martin on July 23, 2019, 05:56:12 pm

No, you are absolutely free to tell anyone you want why you didn't vote for Trump. Free country and all that, and that's true regardless of what I or anyone else says.

But if you choose to advocate in favor of others not voting for Trump, then the question of whether or not you are helping to elect his general election opponent is within the realm of reasonable opinion. I mean, if I was trying to convince people that they should vote for Trump, wouldn't it be fair to say that I was helping him get elected? Seems reasonable to say that if someone is trying to convince people not to vote for Trump, that they are helping his opponent get elected. Doesn't seem far off.

Again, I'm not saying that refusing to vote yourself for the guy is helping the Democrat. I don't think that is. But I do believe advocacy that others shouldn't vote for him either seems to cross the line into helping elect the Democrat.

Feels free to disagree -- as I said, it's just opinion.

Thanks for opening this back up, @Cyber Liberty . @Maj. Bill Martin and I were having (at least in my view) a good discussion, and I would like it to continue. (Don't worry about me and RiV - she's on my Ignore list......... Actually, she's the ONLY one on it!

. Not only do I not respond to her...... I don't even see what she says!)

Back to the discussion. You make some good points, Maj. Bill, and I understand them because I was there as recently as 2012 when I truly believed that voting for Romney was necessary because ousting Obama was the priority (you can see how well THAT worked out!)

Pulling myself out of the discussion (since I'm not trying to persuade anyone in particular, and I understand why some among us feel that they have to choice about voting for Trump because the left is so bad. I GET that), I see your point about the belief that some of you have that those who vocally oppose Trump are encouraging voting for the Dem.

But other than perhaps one person here, I don't see anyone doing that. I certainly am not.

And since this is a discussion board for Conservatives, stating one's views that there isn't a dimes worth of difference in the two parties and that one's conscience will not allow one to vote for someone who doesn't reflect his or her values, can in NO way be perceived as supporting the Democrats and "doing nothing" to stem the tide of the downfall of this once great nation.

I believe that voting for Trump is indeed supporting the downfall and that that position is more dangerous to the Republic than voting third party.

I expect others to disagree because I, like you, once believed that there were only two choices.

I just no longer believe that the outcome I desire........ that is a return to the values and standards this country was founded upon....... can be served well by my vote for either candidate, D, or R.

corbe · « **Reply #399 on:** July 23, 2019, 08:27:19 pm »

I want to take this opportunity to say that <unnecessary and pointless insult> and Cruzers are the most brilliant people to ever populate this planet.