Multiple F/A-18 Pilots Disclose Recent UFOs Encounters, New Radar Tech Key In Detection

[Quix]

A major upgrade in fighter jet radar tech seems to have been key in detecting and tracking bizarre objects flying in military training airspace.
By Tyler RogowayMay 27, 2019

The War Zone

In a major breakthrough in what could be the most fascinating story of our time, five U.S. Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet crewmen have recounted a number of incredibly strange encounters with unidentified flying objects off the East Coast of the United States. Two of the pilots went on the record. The surreal craft they encountered had performance that defies known propulsion and aerodynamic capabilities, and are described as looking like something akin to special effects you would have seen in a sci-fi movie circa the late 1980s. The pilots' accounts also point to a major sensor upgrade on their aircraft that made the presence of these craft even detectable at all.

What's even more important is that these events took place as recently as 2015, over a decade after the now famous Nimitz incident with the so-called 'Tic Tac' craft occurred. This is all coming to light—at least officially—just weeks after the U.S. Navy said it is changing its procedures for its service members reporting unexplained phenomenon in their operating environments.

The War Zone had recently published an in-depth expose about the Navy's procedural changes, a number of other revelations surrounding the Tic Tac incident, and more recent developments, that concluded that the phenomenon is indeed real. That hard to swallow fact has huge implications, regardless of the objects' origins.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27666/what-the-hell-is-going-on-with-ufos-and-department-of-defense

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18473/faa-recordings-deepen-mystery-surrounding-ufo-over-oregon-that-sent-f-15s-scrambling

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21000/highly-detailed-report-on-harrowing-encounter-between-f-a-18s-and-ufo-off-baja-surfaces

Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who has been in the Navy for a decade has come forward after talking to the Navy and Congress about the events he and his squadron mates witnessed between 2014 and 2015. In a New York Times article published on May 26th, 2019, Graves described how strange craft would appear in their training airspace and persist there not for minutes, but many hours, or even days at a time.

SUB QUOTE

“These things would be out there all day... Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”

END SUB QUOTE

The persistence of these craft was in no way the strangest thing about them. Beyond being able to drop tens of thousands of feet in a matter of a second or two and possessing flight characteristics that are unobtainable with known technology, the unannounced visitors looked like nothing else on the planet. But before we get into all that, let's rewind to how all this began and talk about a very important detail that was largely glazed over in the New York Times piece.

Graves and another pilot who was willing to disclose his identity—Lt. Danny Accoin—were both Naval Aviators serving in Navy Strike Fighter Squadron 11 (VFA-11), the Red Rippers, based out of Naval Air Station Oceana near Norfolk, Virginia. Strange anomalies started showing up on their Super Hornets' radars in 2014, while they were out on training maneuvers in the vast warning areas off the Atlantic Coast between Virginia and Florida.

. . .

The persistence of these craft was in no way the strangest thing about them. Beyond being able to drop tens of thousands of feet in a matter of a second or two and possessing flight characteristics that are unobtainable with known technology, the unannounced visitors looked like nothing else on the planet. But before we get into all that, let's rewind to how all this began and talk about a very important detail that was largely glazed over in the New York Times piece.

Graves and another pilot who was willing to disclose his identity—Lt. Danny Accoin—were both Naval Aviators serving in Navy Strike Fighter Squadron 11 (VFA-11), the Red Rippers, based out of Naval Air Station Oceana near Norfolk, Virginia. Strange anomalies started showing up on their Super Hornets' radars in 2014, while they were out on training maneuvers in the vast warning areas off the Atlantic Coast between Virginia and Florida.

. . .

SUB QUOTE

    The pilots began noticing the objects after their 1980s-era radar was upgraded to a more advanced system. As one fighter jet after another got the new radar, pilots began picking up the objects, but ignoring what they thought were false radar tracks.

    “People have seen strange stuff in military aircraft for decades,” Lieutenant Graves said. “We’re doing this very complex mission, to go from 30,000 feet, diving down. It would be a pretty big deal to have something up there.”

    But he said the objects persisted, showing up at 30,000 feet, 20,000 feet, even sea level. They could accelerate, slow down and then hit hypersonic speeds.

    Lieutenant Accoin said he interacted twice with the objects. The first time, after picking up the object on his radar, he set his plane to merge with it, flying 1,000 feet below it. He said he should have been able to see it with his helmet camera, but could not, even though his radar told him it was there.

    A few days later, Lieutenant Accoin said a training missile on his jet locked on the object and his infrared camera picked it up as well. “I knew I had it, I knew it was not a false hit,” he said. But still, “I could not pick it up visually.”

    At this point the pilots said they speculated that the objects were part of some classified and extremely advanced drone program.

    But then pilots began seeing the objects. In late 2014, Lieutenant Graves said he was back at base in Virginia Beach when he encountered a squadron mate just back from a mission “with a look of shock on his face.”

    He said he was stunned to hear the pilot’s words. “I almost hit one of those things,” the pilot told Lieutenant Graves.

    The pilot and his wingman were flying in tandem about 100 feet apart over the Atlantic east of Virginia Beach when something flew between them, right past the cockpit. It looked to the pilot, Lieutenant Graves said, like a sphere encasing a cube.

END SUB QUOTE

The last part is somewhat mind-blowing. Basically, he describes a geometric cube with a translucent sphere of some sort around it. Like I said in the opening of this piece, this sounds like some special effects object from season one of Star Trek The Next Generation, not a craft being reported in detail from a highly-trained Navy fighter pilot that flew right by it. Apparently, others appeared to be spinning in mid-air like tops and were captured by the Super Hornet's AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR targeting pod. The now famous 'gimbal video' was supposedly recorded on one of the Red Rippers' training missions:

. . .

After this near miss, the Red Rippers were officially spooked. What was something of a novelty and mystery, became a flight safety issue. They filed an official safety report.

The New York Times continues:

SUB QUOTE
    The near miss, he and other pilots interviewed said, angered the squadron, and convinced them that the objects were not part of a classified drone program. Government officials would know fighter pilots were training in the area, they reasoned, and would not send drones to get in the way.

    “It turned from a potentially classified drone program to a safety issue,” Lieutenant Graves said. “It was going to be a matter of time before someone had a midair” collision.

    What was strange, the pilots said, was that the video showed objects accelerating to hypersonic speed, making sudden stops and instantaneous turns — something beyond the physical limits of a human crew.

    “Speed doesn’t kill you,” Lieutenant Graves said. “Stopping does. Or acceleration.”

    Asked what they thought the objects were, the pilots refused to speculate.

    We have helicopters that can hover,” Lieutenant Graves said. “We have aircraft that can fly at 30,000 feet and right at the surface.” But “combine all that in one vehicle of some type with no jet engine, no exhaust plume.”

    Lieutenant Accoin said only that “we’re here to do a job, with excellence, not make up myths.”

END SUB QUOTE

The squadron deployed to the Middle East in March of 2015, and according to the pilots interviewed, the encounters off of the southeastern coast of the U.S. ended not long after.

As for the Navy's strange public announcement that they were changing the reporting procedures for these types of encounters, their position is the same as it was weeks ago, with the New York Times quoting Navy spokesman Joseph Gradisher as such:

SUB QUOTE

“There were a number of different reports,” he said. Some cases could have been commercial drones, he said, but in other cases “we don’t know who’s doing this, we don’t have enough data to track this. So the intent of the message to the fleet is to provide updated guidance on reporting procedures for suspected intrusions into our airspace.”

END SUB QUOTE



Red Ripper F/A-18F

We examined this peculiar move by the Navy and the odd timing of it in great detail in my last article on the subject, and this series of events likely had something to do with it. Regardless, with all this in mind, what can we take away from these new on the record revelations?

First off, they are a huge deal. We are talking about two more Navy fighter pilots on the record and another three talking to The New York Times on background. And this was not some account that occurred a decade or more in the past, this was just a couple years ago. Yet what strikes me the most is that once again, this series of encounters occurred in tightly sanitized airspace over the ocean where the military does its most advanced and complex training and testing, just like the Nimitz's Tic Tac incident many years earlier on the west coast. In that case, the gear and personnel involved were also preparing for a major deployment.

Yet what the New York Times doesn't seem to firmly drill down on enough is that we are now getting first-hand accounts that describe a major upgrade in radar technology as being a catalyst for actually detecting and tracking these mysterious objects. Much of my last piece was dedicated to the little known fact that back in 2004, the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group was executing very complex and highly integrated training prior to deployment with Cooperative Engagement Capability technology installed on its ships and aircraft. This was the first time this game-changing suite of sensor fusion and data-link technologies was ever integrated into an operational Carrier Strike Group. As a result, multiple accounts definitively state that its unique, 'fused' sensor data was confiscated after the Tic Tac incident culminated in a number of close encounters.

Taking the recent information about the radar upgrade on the Super Hornets into account, it adds a new facet of plausibility to the Nimitz/Tic Tac events. The higher fidelity radar telemetry data Cooperative Engagement Capability provided, like the introduction of AESA fire control radars on Navy fighters not long after, may have allowed for the detection and documentation of these objects like never before. Whether that was by design or by chance remains unknown.

These two facts—the encounters occurring in secure military airspace off the continental U.S. coastline and the presence of advanced, highly capable radar systems in both series of incidents—is compelling, to say the least. As we stated in our last piece on the subject, these areas and the gear present in them during the encounters would make for very attractive testing conditions for undisclosed aerial capabilities. When it comes to the object's strange appearance, making something as alien looking as possible is probably a good thing for deniability and unconventional camouflage purposes. Even the testing of sensors under real-world conditions against such a craft using various guises could be beneficial.

As for near collisions, they have happened among military aircraft operating in highly controlled airspace where both parties are being helped by air traffic controllers. As such, the near miss doesn't seem like an outright disqualifier for these objects belonging to the military, or a military, as the pilots seem to think. And it's not like the presence of totally unknown aircraft that could be a threat to the safety of other aircraft hasn't occurred even in highly trafficked airspace that is patrolled by alert fighter aircraft. We have broken three major stories about just that in just the last 18 months, one of which is unprecedented in its level of documentation.

I do have to stress that this is not the explanation we are giving for these incidents, but it is one that has to be taken into account, especially considering the similar circumstances at hand.

General knowledge of the aforementioned events that occurred off the east coast in 2014 and 2015 is not necessarily new. Many of us who have kept very close tabs on these developments have known about the sphere and cube craft description for some time, and that a number of encounters happened in this area long after the Nimitz event in 2004. Our good friend Danny Silva reported on the broad strokes of this story days before the New York Times piece was published via dissecting an interview with Commander David Fravor, the lead Super Hornet pilot that had the close-up encounter with the Tic Tac in 2004. Silva also blogged about Fravor's description of what the east coast pilots saw back in January. What is new is the level of detail offered and the fact that five pilots talked to The New York Times about this and two were on the record.

. . .

Regardless, this report moves the ball forward in a major way and underscores, once again, the reality that the limits of aerospace engineering and propulsion, at least as we understand them, have been exceeded by someone or something. As I wrote last month:

SUB QUOTE

    The main revelation is that technology exists that is capable of performing flying maneuvers that shatter our perceptions of propulsion, flight controls, material science, and even physics. Let me underline this again for you, the Nimitz encounter with the Tic Tac proved that exotic technology that is widely thought of as the domain of science fiction actually exists. It is real. It isn't the result of altered perception, someone's lucid dream, a stray weather balloon, or swamp gas. Someone or something has crossed the technological Rubicon and has obtained what some would call the Holy Grail of aerospace engineering.

    This reality is very hard to process for many. There is always an out for some in the form of claiming an odd impromptu conspiracy or some hollow explanation that doesn't pass muster beyond the first paragraph, but in the end, it happened. As uncomfortable as that fact is, it's reality. So, we need to use this event as a lodestar going forward when it comes to evaluating and contemplating what is possible and where truth actually lies.

END SUB QUOTE

. . .

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28231/multiple-f-a-18-pilots-disclose-recent-ufos-encounters-new-radar-tech-key-in-detection






ANOTHER RELATED ARTICLE:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27666/what-the-hell-is-going-on-with-ufos-and-department-of-defense

What The Hell Is Going On With UFOs And The Department Of Defense?
Someone or something appears to have some extremely advanced technology and the Pentagon is actively changing the nature of the conversation about it.

By Tyler RogowayApril 26, 2019



Few stories have garnered more requests from our readers for commentary than the recent news that the Navy has decided to very publicly change its reporting rules and procedures for when its personnel observes an unexplained phenomenon like a UFO and a USO. There have been wildly varying takes on this sudden change, but the truth is that it is very hard to know what to make of it considering how absurd it sounds—the Navy now wants to know about unidentified craft that can penetrate airspace over its installations and around its most capable naval vessels with impunity? Shouldn't that be a default position for a service tasked with defending American interests and controlling vast swathes of area above, below, and on the surface of the Earth?

. . .

SUB QUOTE
    "There have been a number of reports of unauthorized and/or unidentified aircraft entering various military-controlled ranges and designated air space in recent years," the Navy said in a statement in response to questions from POLITICO. "For safety and security concerns, the Navy and the [U.S. Air Force] takes these reports very seriously and investigates each and every report."

    "As part of this effort," it added, "the Navy is updating and formalizing the process by which reports of any such suspected incursions can be made to the cognizant authorities. A new message to the fleet that will detail the steps for reporting is in draft."

    To be clear, the Navy isn’t endorsing the idea that its sailors have encountered alien spacecraft. But it is acknowledging there have been enough strange aerial sightings by credible and highly trained military personnel that they need to be recorded in the official record and studied — rather than dismissed as some kooky phenomena from the realm of science-fiction.

END SUB QUOTE

. . .

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21000/highly-detailed-report-on-harrowing-encounter-between-f-a-18s-and-ufo-off-baja-surfaces

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18473/faa-recordings-deepen-mystery-surrounding-ufo-over-oregon-that-sent-f-15s-scrambling

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20797/the-pentagon-paid-for-these-reports-on-warp-drive-extra-dimensions-anti-gravity-and-more

This reality has led to much speculation, and rightfully so, that the military knows far more about these strange happenings than they are willing to let on, at least on the surface. Otherwise, why wouldn't they want to know more about intruders wielding fantastic technology that makes them impervious to existing countermeasures and defenses? 

Now all this appears to be changing on a grand level, but why?

The technology is real

The fact is that we actually know that in the last 15 years, under at least some circumstances, the military has wanted certain high-fidelity data related to encounters with what many would call UFOs. The most compelling encounter of our time, at least that we know of, occurred in and around where the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group was operating during workups to deployment in 2004.

The incident, or really the series of incidents as they occurred over a number of days, have become near legendary in nature as the witnesses involved are highly credible in nature and numerous. In addition, we have official reports detailing the incident that convey a very compelling story, as well as hours of testimony from those who were there—a group of sailors and naval aviators that seems to be emerging more and more out of the shadows with each passing day.

. . .


https://youtu.be/H6ox_F0auwM

When it comes to the so-called "Tic Tac" incident that involved the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group off the Baja Peninsula in 2004, conclusions that are nearly impossible not to draw from it are so reality warping that even the forward-thinking aerospace community doesn't seem to have even begun coming to terms with them.

The main revelation is that technology exists that is capable of performing flying maneuvers that shatter our perceptions of propulsion, flight controls, material science, and even physics. Let me underline this again for you, the Nimitz encounter with the Tic Tac proved that exotic technology that is widely thought of as the domain of science fiction actually exists. It is real. It isn't the result of altered perception, someone's lucid dream, a stray weather balloon, or swamp gas. Someone or something has crossed the technological Rubicon and has obtained what some would call the Holy Grail of aerospace engineering.

This reality is very hard to process for many. There is always an out for some in the form of claiming an odd impromptu conspiracy or some hollow explanation that doesn't pass muster beyond the first paragraph, but in the end, it happened. As uncomfortable as that fact is, it's reality. So, we need to use this event as a lodestar going forward when it comes to evaluating and contemplating what is possible and where truth actually lies.

. . .

SUB QUOTE
Here are video interviews of some of those who were there. Some are quite informal, but they give a good idea of what individuals' unique perceptions were of the events in question:

END SUB QUOTE

STRIKE FIGHTER COMMANDER DETAILS INCREDIBLE UFO EVENT:


https://youtu.be/jCaruUtiPHo

GARY VOORHIS--NAVY ELECTRONICS TECHNICIAN AND WITNESS TO TIC TAC . . .


https://youtu.be/qz2gdQaklBQ

PJ HUGHES--WITNESS TO CONFISCATION OF 3-2 HAWKEYE ELECTRONIC TI...


https://youtu.be/dfxavE5B-IE

KEVIN DAY--USS NIMITZ SENIOR CHIEF OPERATIONS SPECIALIST AND WIT...


https://youtu.be/bV6M4MKoLnk

JASON TURNER--WITNESS TO F-18 TIC TAC FLIR VIDEO IN 2004 WHILE ...


https://youtu.be/PHi5UfIu1wo

What many may not know about this event is that it occurred in a place and time where the most powerful set of aerial surveillance sensors ever created were amassed together and were watching and recording it all. And it is the recording part that is maybe the most interesting facet of the Nimitz encounters that has largely been passed over in terms of significance and notoriety.

Ideal test conditions

. . .

Someone within the DoD was very interested

By multiple accounts from vetted first-hand sources, the hard drives that record CEC data from the E-2C Hawkeye and Aegis-equipped ships were seized in a very mysterious fashion following the Tic Tac incident. Uniformed U.S. Air Force officers showed up on these vessels and confiscated the devices and they were never to be seen again. This is not rumor or hearsay, this is attested to by multiple uniformed witnesses that were on the vessels that made up the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group at the time.

At the same time, on an official level, the Navy seemed to shut down any further investigation into the incident. The aforementioned after-action report states that the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group’s senior intelligence officer, whose name is redacted, alerted the Navy’s 3rd Fleet intelligence officer, or N2, about the incident via secure Email. That same Email, known as a Mission Report (MISREP), included the video footage and other details.

For unexplained reasons, officials at the 3rd Fleet N2 declined to send this report up the chain of command. They also deleted the MISREP, but speculated that paper copy should have been available. However, there is no indication that anyone went looking for this physical copy of the MISREP during the investigation.




The expansive range complexes and warning areas off Southern California and Mexico.

In addition, the fact is that the U.S. government has poured the equivalent of tens of billions of dollars each year into the black budget for the better part of a century. The idea that somewhere along the way they got lucky and made major breakthroughs in highly exotic technologies may not be convenient to believe as a possibility for those that have grander visions for the unexplained, but I contend that it is quite plausible. In fact, it mirrors the cryptic statements made by top players in the dark areas of aerospace development, such as those of the late Ben Rich, a Lockheed's Skunk Works chief that is largely credited for giving birth to stealth technology as we know it today. For instance, Rich told Popular Mechanics the following that underscores just how long major breakthroughs in man-made clandestine aerospace technology can stay hidden:

SUB QUOTE
"There are some new programs, and there are certain things, some of them 20 or 30 years old, that are still breakthroughs and appropriate to keep quiet about [because] other people don’t have them yet."

END SUB QUOTE

Clearly, the ability to defy the limits of traditional propulsion and lift-borne flight would be the pinnacle of aerospace and electrical engineering and could be far too sensitive to disclose, at least in some people's eyes within the national security establishment. Even the risk of testing this technology against known air defense capabilities would have to be weighed against the need for the tightest of secrecy. But since UFOs carry such a stigma and have deep pop culture roots in our society, the risk of doing so against an unknowing Carrier Strike Group operating under tight training restrictions seems small and the setting uniquely ideal.

. . .
 

In other words, it was an ideal testing environment that featured the very best aerial, surface, and undersea surveillance sensors and sensor crews on the planet.

. . .


JOE ROGAN & TOM DELONGE:


https://youtu.be/5n_3mnJfHzY


. .  .

If the Pentagon really doesn't know what these things are or where they come from, after so many years of sightings and odd encounters and its own studies and shadowy probes, then that would be an unfathomable dereliction of duty considering they are, you know, tasked with keeping America safe from the foreign harm. But really, how can we believe the idea that the military has zero opinion on the matter. It seems like a laughable proposition at best. If there is anything they would have high interest in, it would be craft capable of decimating the enemy on a whim.

. . .

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21000/highly-detailed-report-on-harrowing-encounter-between-f-a-18s-and-ufo-off-baja-surfaces

[Quix]

[roamer_1]

Seems like 'soft disclosure' is ongoing...
Not really my bag, so it is significant that I am noticing it...

[catfish1957]

Seems like 'soft disclosure' is ongoing...
Not really my bag, so it is significant that I am noticing it...

If UFO ET's were a fact, we'd have tangible proof of contact by now.  Not trying to piss off Quix, but......

Events like in this article, can probably to attributable to some kind of natural phenomenon.

[Smokin Joe]

Imho, UFO is just that, an Unidentified Flying Object.

Whether it is ours, and the Government wants to keep that ace in the hole, 'theirs' and our government wants to figure out whose, exactly, and how they did that, or whether it has a source not from Earth is moot, to some degree.

There could even be some 'evil genius' somewhere (evil or not) who has solved physics problems beyond what is taught at universities, out plying with their private stuff, not wanting to 'share' it with any government, partly because doing so may well have the effect of shortening their lifespan, and would make any family member a target for intrigue or violence.  (Imagine the billions in just current contracts which would be rendered moot by such a quantum leap in tech, that's a lot of money on the table.)

What is worthy of note, however, is that the Navy, et. al., are at least looking toward a future themselves where drones will play a much greater part in warfare, in the air, on and under the sea, and even possibly on land. Seeking interlaced AI autonomy for such drone swarms, hardening such against being compromised, especially taken over, will also be as important as stealth.

[roamer_1]

If UFO ET's were a fact, we'd have tangible proof of contact by now.  Not trying to piss off Quix, but......

Events like in this article, can probably to attributable to some kind of natural phenomenon.

There is tangible proof of contact throughout history.
What it getting to me is the several instances over  the past year or so of official and sometimes even military disclosure... That is a new thing that I don't really know what to do with.

[Quix]

Seems like 'soft disclosure' is ongoing...
Not really my bag, so it is significant that I am noticing it...

Soft disclosure is a tolerable label. Certainly, imho, it IS more incremental disclosure ramped up a level or 3.

The curiosity is … therefore what--to what short term end? How rapidly will the incremental increases in disclosure transpire?

[roamer_1]

Soft disclosure is a tolerable label. Certainly, imho, it IS more incremental disclosure ramped up a level or 3.

The curiosity is … therefore what--to what short term end? How rapidly will the incremental increases in disclosure transpire?

@Quix
That's right - But the point being that disclosure is being legitimized. Ten years ago this was the stuff of kook sites and tinfoil-hatters. This is real evidence from unimpeachable and accepted sources.
That is remarkable. And it is happening more and more.

I don't know where it's going, or what to do about it - But it's been predicted for years. Looks like it is coming true.

[Quix]

If UFO ET's were a fact, we'd have tangible proof of contact by now.  Not trying to piss off Quix, but......

Events like in this article, can probably to attributable to some kind of natural phenomenon.

Not so easily pissed off. However, it gets weary-ing to go around a tiresome mountain of demonstrable evidence that has piled high over the decades--to go around such for the 5,000th time. At this point, I'm mostly content to leave the average naysayer certain of ending up looking very stupid.

ACTUALLY--IT TAKES MORE IRRATIONIAL BLIND FAITH TO ATTRIBUTE THE EVIDENCE TO NATURAL PHENOMENON THAN IT DOES TO TAKE OCHAM'S RAZOR'S ROUTE AND REALIZE THAT THE EXOTIC EXPLANATIONS ARE THE SIMPLEST AND MOST DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE EVIDENCE.

Sorry, but your assumptions are showing again.

At this point, you are virtually over the line into grossly humiliating yourself by your lack of awareness while pontificating on the topic.

1. The somewhat solid to significantly solid pile of evidence is mountain sized at this point. There's a difference between a collection of puzzle pieces sufficient to convict a murderer of murder vs a 'critter' in the laboratory in front of the Supreme Court justices, a panel of 12 scientific experts, high resolution video from 8 different vantage points etc. etc. etc. There's been MORE than sufficient evidence to convict a murderer for decades and increasingly documentable month by month if not week by week.

2. You seem to assume that the forces to keep as tight a lid on it all as much as possible were ineffective, nonexistent, stupid, lacking in resources etc. While, in fact, 100's of people have been assassinated to keep the secrets out of the public eye.

3. You seem to dismiss, negate or ignore how incredibly effective the main strategy of RIDICULE has been in the field, at keeping the public in the dark, ignorant & dismissive of the topic.

4. The government's dipping it's little toe in a slight increase in official incremental disclosure is so incredibly underwhelming as to be laughable. They seem to think that the well conditioned populace at this point is still prone to falling headlong into utter ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE rushes to the nearest funny farm at the least bit of serious official disclosure.

5. The fact that 100% rigid, narrow, hostile, incredulous, arrogant, naysaying OCD sorts are still stamping their feet waiting for, demanding a UFO land in THEIR front yard & abduct THEM is no big surprise. That's merely the result of their RAD (attachment disorder) leaving them compulsively in desperate NEED for absolute 110% PROOF before they risk taking a public or private position on anything of significant import and particularly on anything the least bit strange, out of the norm.

5.1 Most sane folks with the least bit of fair-mindedness are not so HANDICAPPED by such an addiction to paranoia about a false positive error.

6. ASSUMING that sufficient time has passed such that 'we'd know already,' is pretending to know critical variables that would control disclosure--whereas, you are evidently guessing off the top of your head consistent with your deeply entrenched biases.

7. Do you KNOW that Kennedy was assassinated by a somewhat complex conspiracy? Most folks are very convinced at this point. There's plenty of evidence on youtube. But probably not sufficient evidence to convince an OCD person with a compulsive paranoia about committing a false positive error and looking stupid thereby.

8. Most observant folks realize that at this point, the folks on the side of looking stupid are the ones denying the reality of exotic craft and exotic critters.

9. I've pondered for decades what it is about evidence & available puzzle pieces in a complex context regarding exotic strange things--what is it that renders some people astute and able to sift through massively complex, imprecise, hard to pin down, impossible to hold in a public laboratory etc. kinds of evidence vs others absolutely unconvinced & still deeply & intensely entrenched in their paranoia about falling prey to a false positive error.

9.1 I haven't come up with many answers about that. The RAD factor is significantly true but not the entire picture, imho. Maybe it is 80-90% of the picture, though.

10. I certainly have not been able to come up with a bridge between the two sorts of people and perspectives. The gulf seems to be too wide and insurmountable.

11. It might be likened to a jury on a murder trial. Some of the astute observers of human behavior; those also able to sift discerningly through massive amounts of extremely subtle evidence etc.--the more intuitive sorts--will GROK the case quickly and rarely be wrong. Those paranoid about falling prey to a false positive error will likely be the sorts of personalities that will dig in their heels--insisting that the level of proofs presented to the jury have been insufficient etc. etc. etc. resulting ridiculously in a hung jury that the vast majority of the jury were near 100% convinced of the guilt of the perpetrator.

12. Certainly a lot of the evidence can be accurately groked by discerning sifting of very subtle evidence--the sort of things that intuitive folks assess and conclude about mostly unconsciously. But there IS a LOT of solid laboratory TANGIBLE evidence compiled by a very scientific and tough minded group. I forget what they're called--something like a research group of scientists for trace evidence or some such. They have a fairly huge body of evidence from landing sites wherein very solid bits of evidence have been successfully collected and analyzed.

13. Linda Moulton Howe herself has sent samples of the difficult to create magnesium and bismuth multilayered bits of the craft around to various labs--all of which affirm it's very exotic nature. There have also been experiments done affirming the capacity of such constructions to behave in very exotic ways.

14. I could go on and on for tens of pages but it gets weary-ing. At some point, one just shakes one's head about 'none are so blind as those who will not see.'

NEONREVOLT HAS AN INTERESTING PILE OF POINTS IN THIS RECENT LONG ARTICLE:

https://www.neonrevolt.com/2019/06/28/majestic-12-the-secret-space-program-and-the-wilson-memo-deeper-disclosures-with-neonrevolt-qanon-greatawakening/

[Quix]

Imho, UFO is just that, an Unidentified Flying Object.

Whether it is ours, and the Government wants to keep that ace in the hole, 'theirs' and our government wants to figure out whose, exactly, and how they did that, or whether it has a source not from Earth is moot, to some degree.

There could even be some 'evil genius' somewhere (evil or not) who has solved physics problems beyond what is taught at universities, out plying with their private stuff, not wanting to 'share' it with any government, partly because doing so may well have the effect of shortening their lifespan, and would make any family member a target for intrigue or violence.  (Imagine the billions in just current contracts which would be rendered moot by such a quantum leap in tech, that's a lot of money on the table.)

What is worthy of note, however, is that the Navy, et. al., are at least looking toward a future themselves where drones will play a much greater part in warfare, in the air, on and under the sea, and even possibly on land. Seeking interlaced AI autonomy for such drone swarms, hardening such against being compromised, especially taken over, will also be as important as stealth.

Always enjoy your posts. Thanks.

Though, I think you sometimes take too 'safe' a stance too needlessly.

[Quix]

@Quix
That's right - But the point being that disclosure is being legitimized. Ten years ago this was the stuff of kook sites and tinfoil-hatters. This is real evidence from unimpeachable and accepted sources.
That is remarkable. And it is happening more and more.

I don't know where it's going, or what to do about it - But it's been predicted for years. Looks like it is coming true.

Agreed.

There's speculations that the oligarchy will use disclosure in a carefully managed way to undermine Trump etc.

There's speculations that Trump given his uncle's dealings at the FBI's request in sorting out Tesla's papers etc.--that Trump already knows more than even the average official bear about the topic. It was curious that he seemed to pooh-pooh the topic in the last few months. I took that as disinformation designed to keep the topic low on the radar as far as public perceptions of him are concerned.

I inferred that he has enough on his plate without having to juggle that very very tricky topic on top of all the other stuff.

I believe he also realizes that the critters are largely or totally fallen angels pretending to be ET's and does NOT want to get into that whole issue AT THIS TIME.

The complexities abound & the mine fields about in this subject area.

[Smokin Joe]

Always enjoy your posts. Thanks.

Though, I think you sometimes take too 'safe' a stance too needlessly.

Thanks, @Quix. Recall, however, I am a scientist, a natural Doubting Thomas. Until I see the wounds, at least in this, I cannot believe. Speculation about other things is fun and all that, but this one holds a particular taboo amongst my sort.

[roamer_1]

Agreed.

There's speculations that the oligarchy will use disclosure in a carefully managed way to undermine Trump etc.

There's speculations that Trump given his uncle's dealings at the FBI's request in sorting out Tesla's papers etc.--that Trump already knows more than even the average official bear about the topic. It was curious that he seemed to pooh-pooh the topic in the last few months. I took that as disinformation designed to keep the topic low on the radar as far as public perceptions of him are concerned.

I inferred that he has enough on his plate without having to juggle that very very tricky topic on top of all the other stuff.

I believe he also realizes that the critters are largely or totally fallen angels pretending to be ET's and does NOT want to get into that whole issue AT THIS TIME.

The complexities abound & the mine fields about in this subject area.

Meh.
It ain't about Tumpy.
Whatever.

[Quix]

Thanks, @Quix.

Recall, however, I am a scientist, a natural Doubting Thomas. Until I see the wounds, at least in this, I cannot believe. Speculation about other things is fun and all that, but this one holds a particular taboo amongst my sort.

As I've noted: Slavish obsessive fixation with hyper-solid laboratory type 'proof' out of a paranoia of making a false positive error

sets one up

to a virtual certainty of being bitten hard in the rear by a false negative error.

Most folks of that ilk (not necessarily you, in my experience) tend to be rather smug in their fantasies & assumptions about how well protected their super logic and super tight, even prissy, criteria are for proof. Yet, most,  in my experience, strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. They miss stuff as big as a barn door.

At this point, the evidence--even from that one group--let me track down their name:

Here it is:

https://www.cohenufo.org/ufotrace1.html

http://www.cohenufo.org/


There have been many UFO cases where people have seen UFOs actually land. When some of these sites have been examined, residual traces have been discovered. The Center for Physical Trace Research was established June 1, 1998 by Ted Phillips "to provide a central repository for the receipt, study, and distribution of UFO landing events involving physical residue. Phillips has worked on several thousand such cases since 1969 with the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek and the Center for UFO Studies, as well as with Mutual Unidentified Flying Object Network, Incorporated."

Some of Ted's evidence was presented to the Sturrock panel. Although the panel did not feel it had enough evidence to definitively prove an E.T. connection, they did leave the door open and say science may well learn something from studying UFOs and that the study of physical evidence was where the best prospect for achieving a meaningful evaluation of relevant hypotheses was most likely to occur.

https://listverse.com/2015/05/20/10-ufos-that-allegedly-left-physical-evidence-behind/

10 UFOs That Allegedly Left Physical Evidence Behind

20 May 2015

Reports of “trace cases,” where UFOs leave their fingerprints behind, are steadily growing. They can be easily dismissed as lies from attention-seeking weirdos, but when they come from professionals such as pilots, policemen, soldiers, and scientists, it makes you wonder. These are not the career fields that encourage employees to swing on the extraterrestrial vine; they stand to lose a lot by reporting or investigating a UFO. (Of course, they can also stand to gain a fair amount due to the publicity.) This doesn’t mean that civilian sightings are less important. Trace cases, like any other good mystery, cannot be proven to everybody’s satisfaction, but they remain eternally fascinating to paranormal sleuths, whether armchair or professional.


http://noufors.com/ufo_physical_traces.html

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/763816/UFO-landed-earth-proof-Delphos-Dr-Erol-Faruk


NORTHERN ONTARIO UFO RESEARCH & STUDY

Physical trace reports were labelled Close Encounters of the Second Kind (CE-II) by the late J. Allen Hynek. These are instances where there is physical interaction between the UFO and its environment. In a landing trace case, for example, one may find physical evidence such as depressed grass or soil, but also burned or broken vegetation, oily residues, and other exotic traces.

Physical traces found at landing sites include the imprints left behind by the landing gears of the object which indicate tremendous pressure - great weight - generally found as three or four in number, arranged in either a triangular or rectangular pattern.

Apart from imprints, the soil in the landing area is often extremely dehydrated and unable to absorb water. UFO-affected soil cannot support seed germination and plant growth.

http://noufors.com/Additional_UFO_Physical_Trace_Cases.html

Metal artifact found after close encounter on Island of Vaddo, Sweden
November 11, 1956
   
The Ubatuba, Brazil Fragments
1957
 
The Willow Grove Close Encounter
February 15, 1963
   
Socorro/Zamora UFO Incident
April 24, 1964
 
UFO lands and leaves crater-like depression with holes
May 5, 1964
   
Landed UFO frightens boy and cow; depressions left in field
May 19, 1964
 
Close-range sighting of domed UFO
June 15, 1964
   
Giant spinning top encountered by businessman
June 29, 1964
 
Fragment of unidentified object lands in Kallavesi Lake, Finland
August, 1964
   
Immense cone-shaped object crosses low over highway
December 21, 1964
 
James Flynn Florida Everglades Encounter
March 12, 1965
   
UFO on Australian Beach (Vaucluse Beach)
July 19, 1965
 
Football-shaped UFO hovers near milk barn, scares animals
August 19, 1965
   
The Langenhoe Incident (Motorcyclist encounters UFO)
September 14, 1965
 
The 1966 Tully Saucer Nest
January 19, 1966
   
Over 200 students witness saucer-shape object, physical
traces left behind (Westall Incident)
April 6, 1966
 
Large, bright, silver/white saucer-shaped craft passes over field
May 1966
   
Burn marks and holes found after UFO seen close to ground
September 13, 1966
 
Disc-shaped UFO with dome 'buzzes' automobile
October 15, 1966
   
City Youth Tells Of A Strange Ship
May 1967
 
The Stephen Michalak Encounter at Falcon Lake
May 20, 1967
   
UFO Visits Ontario Lake
June 18, 1967
 
The strange case of Doctor X
November 1-2, 1968
   
Landing marks near Lake Anten, Sweden; UFO seen in area
August 30, 1970
 
UFO encounter over Texas uranium mine;
physical trace effects found
1971
   
Delphos, Kansas Landing Ring
November 2, 1971
 
Maureen Puddy's close encounter in Victoria, Australia
July 5, 1972
   
Object emits three discs, responds to light signals
August 1972
 
Object hovers over sea and immobilizes
witnesses in Togo, Africa
March 29, 1974
   
Three small boys witness UFO landing
August 16, 1974
 
Five Objects Hover Over Canadian Field
September 1, 1974
   
Landing in Wisconsin
March 13, 1975
 
Landing of dome-shaped UFO witnessed at close range
in Kettering, Tasmania
February 1976
   
Dog dies after close encounter on ranch in Uruguay
February 18, 1977
 
Pennsylvania man encounters UFO hovering
over field next to home
March 29, 1977
   
Security guard sees oval UFO with bright headlights
October 1977
 
Mini-UFOs and Metal Pieces in Finland
March 16, 1979
   
Rosedale, Victoria: A Close Encounter
September 30, 1980
 
Young boy struck by beam of light from UFO
December 5, 1980
   
The Cash-Landrum Case
December 29, 1980
 
Trans-en-Provence Physical Trace Case
January 8, 1981
   
Close Encounter at Indian Point Nuclear Reactor, NY
June 14, 1984
 
Bob White's Alien Artifact
1985
   
Knowles Family UFO Encounter in Mundrabilla, Australia
January 21, 1988
 
Voronezh, Russia UFO Landing and Aliens
September 27, 1989
   
UFO encounter in Germany, witnesses experience paralysis
March 9, 1993
 
UFO lands to repair hole in its hull (Transvaal, South Africa)
March 30, 1995
   
Car-stop UFO encounter near Velje, Jutland (Denmark)
September 29, 1995
 
UFO Encounter at Little Fox Lake, Yukon
March 30, 2000
   
Large, Luminous UFO Stops Cars, Electronics In City
July 15, 2002
 
Triangle Sighting and Close Encounter
October 2, 2004
   
Woman is Sickened by Two Encounters With UFOs on Successive Nights
August 24, 2005
 
Close-range video of saucer-shaped craft over Sarajevo,
possible 'landing marks' found on ground
October 8, 2005
   
Photographs of close-range metallic object
taken near Zdany, Poland
January 8, 2006


Still trying to find the national USA org's name & site.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nns0A3EF5w




https://duckduckgo.com/?q=scientists+for+UFO+trace+landing+evidence&atb=v153-1&ia=web

[Quix]

Meh.
It ain't about Tumpy.
Whatever.

Correction of my error:


The complexities abound & the mine fields ABOUND in this subject area.

[Smokin Joe]

They can be easily dismissed as lies from attention-seeking weirdos, but when they come from professionals such as pilots, policemen, soldiers, and scientists, it makes you wonder.

That depends on the integrity of the individuals involved, not their profession.

We have the current global warming hoax, perpetrated by people who are certainly making themselves a fine living at it, and thus are professionals, some highly educated, and from many walks of life, from 'climate scientists' to commodity speculators.

However, that lacks integrity.

It is not that I have made up my mind either way, nor that I am saying these people did not see what they claim, just that I want to see the evidence, just as Thomas did.

That doesn't leave me in a position to be shocked senseless by findings either way, just where I have not made any committed decision as to whether I am convinced one way or another.

In a way, I see this as the technological, outer space oriented (Space Age) equivalent of the Mysticism, Occult fiddling, and Spiritualism of the early 20th century, which while likely laced with demonic influences, was largely exposed by none other than Harry Houdini as overwhelmingly a hoax. Sure, there were (and still are) professional Spiritualists and even today's high tech 'ghost hunters', out there raking it in, despite warnings in scripture about seeking familiar spirits.

Yet, as a scientist, I must agree that that which exists (should it actually, verifiably, do so), no matter how improbable, is not impossible.

Could there be intelligent life on other planets?
Who knows?
We might even find such on ours.

If present, would it be so in sufficient abundance to prevail and flourish? (Could possibly happen here, too).
If it did, would it come here, and why?

Just to see how the other half lives?
Pick up some earth women?
Stop by for a steak?
To study humans?
To what end, if their technology is leagues beyond ours?
Some sort of amusement?
Just pull over to dump the waste tank? (could drop that in space, methinks).
Grab a couple specimens for the zoo?

See? That's just it. If there are corporeal extraterrestrial beings, what is their fascination with the quarrelsome and vicious critters on this planet? If these beings are what we would call supernatural, then they fall within the bounds of scripture, one way or another, but have limited corporeal existence until The Almighty deems that necessary or desirable.

But, in the meantime, there are souvenirs to sell, gadgets to fiddle with, bumper stickers, key chains, T-sirts and coffee mugs to hawk, and the font of endless speculation about how we'd act with similar technology to that we attribute to the aliens is an industry all its own.

Like I said, I want to see the data. I'll check out some of the items you listed in the next couple of weeks,and thanks for doing so.

For now, I can neither confirm nor deny that those things we have failed to identify are extraterrestrial spacecraft, full of aliens (just what we need, more aliens ), and that is where i will be for the foreseeable future.

[Quix]

PLEASE SEE BELOW INTERSPERSED:

That depends on the integrity of the individuals involved, not their profession.

QX: AGREED!

We have the current global warming hoax, perpetrated by people who are certainly making themselves a fine living at it, and thus are professionals, some highly educated, and from many walks of life, from 'climate scientists' to commodity speculators.

However, that lacks integrity.

QX: ABSOLUTELY INDEED AGREED!

It is not that I have made up my mind either way, nor that I am saying these people did not see what they claim, just that I want to see the evidence, just as Thomas did.

That doesn't leave me in a position to be shocked senseless by findings either way, just where I have not made any committed decision as to whether I am convinced one way or another.

In a way, I see this as the technological, outer space oriented (Space Age) equivalent of the Mysticism, Occult fiddling, and Spiritualism of the early 20th century, which while likely laced with demonic influences, was largely exposed by none other than Harry Houdini as overwhelmingly a hoax. Sure, there were (and still are) professional Spiritualists and even today's high tech 'ghost hunters', out there raking it in, despite warnings in scripture about seeking familiar spirits.

QX: I can understand your making a 'similarity' observation.

I can think of a number of points violating that label of similarity but I'm not energized enough about it, to do it.

===

Yet, as a scientist, I must agree that that which exists (should it actually, verifiably, do so), no matter how improbable, is not impossible.

QX: I BELIEVE YOU. THANKS THANKS. AGREED!

Could there be intelligent life on other planets?
Who knows?
We might even find such on ours.

QX: AGREED. LOL.

If present, would it be so in sufficient abundance to prevail and flourish? (Could possibly happen here, too).
If it did, would it come here, and why?

Just to see how the other half lives?
Pick up some earth women?
Stop by for a steak?
To study humans?
To what end, if their technology is leagues beyond ours?
Some sort of amusement?
Just pull over to dump the waste tank? (could drop that in space, methinks).
Grab a couple specimens for the zoo?

QX: LOLOL.

On that issue, I'm often mindful . . . GOD HAS MADE CLEAR (imho) in His  Word that planet earth is INCREDIBLY UNIQUE. So, even IF there are NON-fallen angel critters from distant galactic clusters … the Scripture about

ALL CREATION WAITS EAGERLY, GROANINGLY, YEARNING FOR THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD {evidently to help lift the weight of universal sin pollution from off their backs} . . .

THAT SCRIPTURE plus the fact that the earth is soooo incredibly unique {Mainly that Christ chose/was slated to live His earthly life & be crucified ON EARTH ALONE}

leaves me believing  that ALL the other non-fallen angel critters potentially existent MIGHT JUST BE EXTREMELY CURIOUS about the rearing & training, schooling, purifying of the human critters to "rule & reign with Christ" toward the lifting of the burden of sin off their backs.

====

See? That's just it. If there are corporeal extraterrestrial beings, what is their fascination with the quarrelsome and vicious critters on this planet? If these beings are what we would call supernatural, then they fall within the bounds of scripture, one way or another, but have limited corporeal existence until The Almighty deems that necessary or desirable.

QX: SEE JUST ABOVE, PLEASE.

===

But, in the meantime, there are souvenirs to sell, gadgets to fiddle with, bumper stickers, key chains, T-sirts and coffee mugs to hawk, and the font of endless speculation about how we'd act with similar technology to that we attribute to the aliens is an industry all its own.

QX: LOL. A workman is worthy his hire! LOL.

===

Like I said, I want to see the data. I'll check out some of the items you listed in the next couple of weeks,and thanks for doing so.

QX: No sweat. I know that even folks with integrity may be firmly entrenched enough in their perspective to insist on waiting for "EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE" to match the "EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS" as stated by the  hyper-hypocrite Carl Sagan--who secretly worked on a UFO scientific panel dealing with the phenomena--all the while playing the role of a shill denying the reality of what he was secretly helping the government study & deal with.

===

For now, I can neither confirm nor deny that those things we have failed to identify are extraterrestrial spacecraft, full of aliens (just what we need, more aliens ), and that is where i will be for the foreseeable future.

QX: I UNDERSTAND and can respect that.