Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan

[skeeter]

Why should I respect the fat and complacent?   Why shouldn't I respect those who strive?

You shouldn’t. But that’s not what you said is it.

[Sanguine]

@Jazzhead, I know you've seen my response to your statement.  Care to comment?

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead, I know you've seen my response to your statement.  Care to comment?

From the abstract to one of the articles:

 

  Linguistically, Mexican Americans assimilate into mainstream America quite well-by the second generation, nearly all Mexican Americans achieve English proficiency. In many domains, however, the Mexican American story doesn't fit with traditional models of assimilation. The majority of fourth generation Mexican Americans continue to live in Hispanic neighborhoods, marry other Hispanics, and think of themselves as Mexican. And while Mexican Americans make financial strides from the first to the second generation, economic progress halts at the second generation, and poverty rates remain high for later generations. Similarly, educational attainment peaks among second generation children of immigrants, but declines for the third and fourth generations. Telles and Ortiz identify institutional barriers as a major source of Mexican American disadvantage. Chronic under-funding in school systems predominately serving Mexican Americans severely restrains progress. Persistent discrimination, punitive immigration policies, and reliance on cheap Mexican labor in the southwestern states all make integration more difficult. The authors call for providing Mexican American children with the educational opportunities that European immigrants in previous generations enjoyed. The Mexican American trajectory is distinct-but so is the extent to which this group has been excluded from the American mainstream

And what do you propose,  @Sanguine,  to remedy the "institutional barriers" to have caused Mexican-Americans to be "excluded from the American mainstream"?    In the immediate case of my own family,  my wife is one of eight kids of Mexican-born parents.  All went to college,  all have good careers, all speak English with no accent.   They are, I'd say, an American immigrant success story.   

 

[Sanguine]

I haven't had the chance to read the links.   

OK, well let me know when you have.

[Jazzhead]

OK, well let me know when you have.

I edited my post above

[truth_seeker]

Unwanted, illegal immigration from les-developed, into more-developed countries is ongoing.

The US has been inconsistent, over my lifetime.

1954 - Deported over 1 million primarily to Mexico.

1986 - Enacted Amnesty which became a legal magnet ever since.


We elect representative, who pass clever laws precluding benefits to illegals, and then pass more clever loopholes to circumvent the laws.

2. We don't ever need immigrants like Somali Rep. Omar.

[Absalom]

Worthwhile debate on immigration, yet some questions.
* As automation/robotization continues to eliminate
non-skilled work; why do we need any unskilled labor?
* Rather than importing them, can't we eliminate any
skilled worker deficit in our nation by supporting creative
technical programs and encouraging intellectual achievement.
For example, Euclid created Geometry w/o which structure
is not possible and he was self-taught.
* Why does any rational mind believe that another govt
program, advanced by a hustler like Kushner, is the solution
to a perceived skill problem.

[Sanguine]

From the abstract to one of the articles:

   

And what do you propose,  @Sanguine,  to remedy the "institutional barriers" to have caused Mexican-Americans to be "excluded from the American mainstream"?    In the immediate case of my own family,  my wife is one of eight kids of Mexican-born parents.  All went to college,  all have good careers, all speak English with no accent.   They are, I'd say, an American immigrant success story.   

 

I say we cut back on immigration until we have assimilated the tens of millions who we have already allowed in.  Now, if you don't think our country and our culture are worth preserving, I can see how you continue to misrepresent and dismiss the facts of immigration and how you would advocate for even more immigration.

[Sanguine]

I edited my post above

It was actually your first several posts where you misrepresented and dismissed the actual facts of immigration.  I'm going to be charitable and assume that you have never been aware of the true face of rampant legal and illegal immigration, but in that case you should be trying to become educated rather than tell others what you feel their opinions should be.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I say we cut back on immigration until we have assimilated the tens of millions who we have already allowed in.  Now, if you don't think our country and our culture are worth preserving, I can see how you continue to misrepresent and dismiss the facts of immigration and how you would advocate for even more immigration.

 

[GtHawk]

Who represents the bigger threat to American workers - the low-skilled immigrants who do jobs most Americans won't do, or the high-skilled immigrants who employers can hire at the expense of Americans who spent years educating themselves?   

And what about implementing e-Verify or something similar, with real consequences for employers who hire unauthorized workers?   

I am so sick and tired of hearing this crap about the jobs Americans won't do! The friggin illegals have stolen all the entry level  fast food jobs that are so important to high school students learning responsibility and interactions, which is one reason that we have so many millennials that have no work ethic. The illegals also rob young Americans of the entry level jobs in construction and other trades. And every time I hear people tout E-Verify I ask what the hell happened to the I-5 program that employers are still required to fill out and file for every single hire which mandates proof of employment eligibility before an employee is allowed to work a single minute? I know factually that the Social Security Administration sends a letter demanding clarification of non matching or non existent numbers within two payroll cycles.

[Fishrrman]

Immigration doesn't need "reform".

It needs to be ENDED -- for 50, 60 years at least.

No more immigrants!
Build the wall!

[Jazzhead]

I say we cut back on immigration until we have assimilated the tens of millions who we have already allowed in.  Now, if you don't think our country and our culture are worth preserving, I can see how you continue to misrepresent and dismiss the facts of immigration and how you would advocate for even more immigration.

That makes no rational sense.   Without legal means to engage the labor that employers need,  they will resort to illegals.   What do you mean by "assimilating the tens of millions who we have already allowed in"?   Do you  mean normalizing illegals' ability to work here on the level,  so employers aren't breaking the law and these folks can finally pay taxes and otherwise fully participate in the community?   That would indeed make a lot of sense,  but I suspect that your insistence that we preserve our "culture" is a dog whistle.   

[skeeter]

That makes no rational sense.   Without legal means to engage the labor that employers need,  they will resort to illegals.   What do you mean by "assimilating the tens of millions who we have already allowed in"?   Do you  mean normalizing illegals' ability to work here on the level,  so employers aren't breaking the law and these folks can finally pay taxes and otherwise fully participate in the community?   That would indeed make a lot of sense,  but I suspect that your insistence that we preserve our "culture" is a dog whistle.   

You’re the one blowing on the dog whistle, JH. I was wondering how long it would take.

I don’t care about your predictable implications, and I suspect Sanguine doesn’t either. You and others have gone to that particular well too many times. Who cares what you think our motivations are.

[Jazzhead]

I am so sick and tired of hearing this crap about the jobs Americans won't do! The friggin illegals have stolen all the entry level  fast food jobs that are so important to high school students learning responsibility and interactions, which is one reason that we have so many millennials that have no work ethic. The illegals also rob young Americans of the entry level jobs in construction and other trades. And every time I hear people tout E-Verify I ask what the hell happened to the I-5 program that employers are still required to fill out and file for every single hire which mandates proof of employment eligibility before an employee is allowed to work a single minute? I know factually that the Social Security Administration sends a letter demanding clarification of non matching or non existent numbers within two payroll cycles.

The jobs are there.  I see fast food restaurants all over with signs up wanting to hire.   Americans need to stop whining, stop blaming others, and act like the kinds of punctual, hard-working, dedicated folks that employers want to hire. 

I run into recent immigrants from all walks of life,  and talking to them makes it obvious why employers seek out their services.   They are strivers, unlike too many Americans who have lost the sort of work ethic that used to define our "culture" of self-reliance and initiative.   Give me any day an immigrant who appreciates the opportunities that America provides,  over the lazy whiners who complain they can't get jobs that suit their needs in this historic, booming economy.       

[Right_in_Virginia]

but I suspect that your insistence that we preserve our "culture" is a dog whistle.   

You just can't help yourself.   

[QueenCatofAragon]

Who represents the bigger threat to American workers - the low-skilled immigrants who do jobs most Americans won't do, or the high-skilled immigrants who employers can hire at the expense of Americans who spent years educating themselves?   

And what about implementing e-Verify or something similar, with real consequences for employers who hire unauthorized workers?   

Only in America do we guilt ourselves over the perceived right of people to come here— when that right doesn’t belong to them.  It’s way past time to start putting our country first. 

[Sanguine]

That makes no rational sense.   Without legal means to engage the labor that employers need,  they will resort to illegals.   What do you mean by "assimilating the tens of millions who we have already allowed in"?   Do you  mean normalizing illegals' ability to work here on the level,  so employers aren't breaking the law and these folks can finally pay taxes and otherwise fully participate in the community?   That would indeed make a lot of sense,  but I suspect that your insistence that we preserve our "culture" is a dog whistle.   

You want to try to follow that line of (il)logic out?  If "preserve our culture" is a dog whistle, which is a pejorative then our culture is bad.  You sure you want to go there @Jazzhead?

[Jazzhead]

Our culture is doing just fine.   Mores will change,  but that doesn't mean you need to resort to alarmism to promote conservatism.   I understand you are in a fighting mood,  and think we're turning to shit, but you're wrong.

The America I live in is adapting well to women and, yes, even homosexuals, being able to live their lives to their fullest potential.   The economy is booming and everyone is benefiting .  I say promote the OPPORTUNITY culture,  not wallow in white reaction.

[Sanguine]

Our culture is doing just fine.   Mores will change,  but that doesn't mean you need to resort to alarmism to promote conservatism.   I understand you in a fighting mood,  but the America I live in is adapting well to women and, yes, able to live their lives to their fullest potential.   The economy is booming and everyone is benefiting .  I say promote the OPPORTUNITY culture,  not wallow in white reaction.

"White reaction"????   Where the hell do you get that and you had better not be saying what it looks like you are saying.

[EdJames]

Our culture is doing just fine.   Mores will change,  but that doesn't mean you need to resort to alarmism to promote conservatism.   I understand you are in a fighting mood,  and think we're turning to shit, but you're wrong.

The America I live in is adapting well to women and, yes, even homosexuals, being able to live their lives to their fullest potential.   The economy is booming and everyone is benefiting .  I say promote the OPPORTUNITY culture,  not wallow in white reaction.

I'm convinced that either you live in some kind of fantasyland, or sip more single malt that I thought.

[Jazzhead]

What I espouse - what's good for business is good for America -  used to be mainstream GOP.   This booming economy has little to with Trump's zero-sum-game view of the world and everything to do with sound Reaganism as practiced by the GOP Congress (now a memory as the voters turned out a GOP House in frustration with Trump's madness.)

The GOP is reacting in fear of the Trump base, which is huffing the fumes of identity politics same as the Dems.  The political theater masks the reality of just why times are good, and who should get credit for it.   

We will regret the deal we've made with devil.

[Sanguine]

What I espouse - what's good for business is good for America -  used to be mainstream GOP.   This booming economy has little to with Trump's zero-sum-game view of the world and everything to do with sound Reaganism as practiced by the GOP Congress (now a memory as the voters turned out a GOP House in frustration with Trump's madness.)

The GOP is reacting in fear of the Trump base, which is huffing the fumes of identity politics same as the Dems.  The political theater masks the reality of just why times are good, and who should get credit for it.   

We will regret the deal we've made with devil.

Sorry, @Jazzhead, but you've squandered your credibility.  You have none left.

[Jazzhead]

Sorry, @Jazzhead, but you've squandered your credibility.  You have none left.

Your condescension is annoying,  but I appreciate the bump.

The Trumpsters are riding high at the moment,  and old GOP hands like myself are the targets of scorn.   But it's all gonna come crashing down, ma'am,  because you don't see the forest for the trees.    Reaganism has rescued the economy,  not Trumpism.   Yes,  I think Trump's romance with the alt-right is dangerous for the GOP,  because the demogoguery is killing the whole party's credibiilty.  And that credibility is grounded in liberty, optimism and economic growth.   

Will the voters even remember that message when it is drowned out by Trump's and the Dems' culture-war madness?

[Sanguine]

Your condescension is annoying,  but I appreciate the bump.

The Trumpsters are riding high at the moment,  and old GOP hands like myself are the targets of scorn.   But it's all gonna come crashing down, ma'am,  because you don't see the forest for the trees.    Reaganism has rescued the economy,  not Trumpism.   Yes,  I think Trump's romance with the alt-right is dangerous for the GOP,  because the demogoguery is killing the whole party's credibiilty.  And that credibility is grounded in liberty, optimism and economic growth.   

Will the voters even remember that message when it is drowned out by Trump's and the Dems' culture-war madness?

It may be annoying, but it is appropriate.  (Didn't read the rest of your comment, so nothing to add.)