Author Topic: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)  (Read 12544 times)

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Offline Bigun

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #175 on: March 16, 2019, 04:26:21 pm »
The problem comes when we consider how that reality should translate into the immigration policy of a free country.

Yes indeed!  And our enemies within take full advantage!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline skeeter

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #176 on: March 16, 2019, 04:32:03 pm »
That reality is that they either join the "American" tribe and become one of us, or they go off on some hyphenated tangent with an Us vs them (them being Americans) mentality. If the latter, they really aren't here to become Americans at all.
Sadly becoming an 'American' is no longer required for entry and hasn't been for awhile. God bless those that choose to.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #177 on: March 16, 2019, 04:52:29 pm »

Some people are just broken. I don’t think you can grab just anyone and condition them to commit heinous acts. They’re already talking about changing NZ gun laws, in the aftermath of this shooting. I’d expect some discussion about violence in video games, as well, considering some of what he’s said. I’ve wasted more than a few nights playing FPS games and I never felt compelled to murder anyone. Did they contribute to his actions? Maybe, but he already had fundamental problems.

Isn't that exactly what happened in Germany, Russia, Ukraine, Cambodia, Japan, China in the last century?  They took normal people and those people committed monstrous acts.  Apparently if you induce people to do small acts of anti-socialism (anti-Jewish graffiti on businesses maybe), and then slowly up the ante, you can get them to the rabid, animalistic frenzy of the Japanese in Nanking, for instance.  Some of those soldiers were horrified by what they had done after the fact, but they did them.

There's that photo of August somebody, in the group of ecstatic Germans heiling Hitler, and he is the only one in that large crowd who is resisting the ecstasy.  Says a lot about the potentialities of human nature.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #178 on: March 16, 2019, 04:56:06 pm »
Isn't that exactly what happened in Germany, Russia, Ukraine, Cambodia, Japan, China in the last century?  They took normal people and those people committed monstrous acts.  Apparently if you induce people to do small acts of anti-socialism (anti-Jewish graffiti on businesses maybe), and then slowly up the ante, you can get them to the rabid, animalistic frenzy of the Japanese in Nanking, for instance.  Some of those soldiers were horrified by what they had done after the fact, but they did them.

There's that photo of August somebody, in the group of ecstatic Germans heiling Hitler, and he is the only one in that large crowd who is resisting the ecstasy.  Says a lot about the potentialities of human nature.
You have outlined my distrust of mob mentalities anywhere.  Once in that euphoric emotionally charged moment, they are unpredictable and often dangerous. Look at riots after 'their team' wins a sporting event, even.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #179 on: March 16, 2019, 04:58:30 pm »
You have outlined my distrust of mob mentalities anywhere.  Once in that euphoric emotionally charged moment, they are unpredictable and often dangerous. Look at riots after 'their team' wins a sporting event, even.

Yes, and it's part of our biology.  It takes a conscientious, thinking person to resist.

Offline edpc

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #180 on: March 16, 2019, 05:05:46 pm »
Isn't that exactly what happened in Germany, Russia, Ukraine, Cambodia, Japan, China in the last century?  They took normal people and those people committed monstrous acts.  Apparently if you induce people to do small acts of anti-socialism (anti-Jewish graffiti on businesses maybe), and then slowly up the ante, you can get them to the rabid, animalistic frenzy of the Japanese in Nanking, for instance.  Some of those soldiers were horrified by what they had done after the fact, but they did them.

There's that photo of August somebody, in the group of ecstatic Germans heiling Hitler, and he is the only one in that large crowd who is resisting the ecstasy.  Says a lot about the potentialities of human nature.


There’s something to be said for mob mentality, but there’s something in you to get there, in the first place.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #181 on: March 16, 2019, 05:08:32 pm »

There’s something to be said for mob mentality, but there’s something in you to get there, in the first place.

Yes, there is.  Apparently it is in all of us.  Some of us have more self-discipline and a closer relationship to our Creator to sometimes be able to resist the almost irresistible.  And, it seems that those who deny our innate capacity for evil are those who are more easily induce to commit evil.

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #182 on: March 16, 2019, 05:10:42 pm »
There's that photo of August somebody, in the group of ecstatic Germans heiling Hitler, and he is the only one in that large crowd who is resisting the ecstasy.  Says a lot about the potentialities of human nature.

He was executed for his attitude.  "Thought crime."
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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #183 on: March 16, 2019, 05:12:57 pm »
Yes, there is.  Apparently it is in all of us.  Some of us have more self-discipline and a closer relationship to our Creator to sometimes be able to resist the almost irresistible.  And, it seems that those who deny our innate capacity for evil are those who are more easily induce to commit evil.

Wasn't that the moral of Poe's Telltale Heart?  We're all just an ugly eye away from killing and butchering somebody....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #184 on: March 16, 2019, 05:15:10 pm »
Wasn't that the moral of Poe's Telltale Heart?  We're all just an ugly eye away from killing and butchering somebody....

Surely explains, "Religion is the opiate of the masses".

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Offline TomSea

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #185 on: March 16, 2019, 05:19:31 pm »
We can repeat what is on the previous page,
Quote
BNL NEWS
‏ @BreakingNLive

JUST IN: Christchurch, New Zealand terrorist writes in manifesto that he is not a conservative, that he is not a Christian, and that he identifies as an eco-facist. He also adds that he disagrees with Trump on politics.

https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/status/1106558974042824705

Offline edpc

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #186 on: March 16, 2019, 05:40:10 pm »
Yes, there is.  Apparently it is in all of us.  Some of us have more self-discipline and a closer relationship to our Creator to sometimes be able to resist the almost irresistible.  And, it seems that those who deny our innate capacity for evil are those who are more easily induce to commit evil.


I don’t know. Plenty of people who believe deeply in good and evil have committed acts in the name of faith. I’m not a howling atheist and that’s not a knock on religion – it’s just true. Perhaps I have my perspective, because I don’t consider myself particularly special in any moral regard.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline TomSea

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #187 on: March 16, 2019, 05:43:12 pm »
Quote
The Christchurch manifesto praised China’s values. That’s sparking debate in China
Alice Su

That has caught people’s attention in China, sparking discussion of whether China’s ethnic policies could have inspired a terrorist.

On Weibo, a Chinese platform similar to Twitter that’s censored so only tacitly state-approved posts remain online, dozens of posts blamed Western media for negative portrayals of China.

“What he appreciated is what Western media is propagating about our management of Muslims in Xinjiang,” one user wrote, according to What’s On Weibo, a website that monitors Chinese social media. “He was influenced by the foreign media disseminating that we’re anti-Muslim.”

Read more at: https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-christchurch-manifesto-china-20190316-story.html

There's a lot on this story that I as a Westerner, don't readily see and know and this is another example. I mean, I know that China is a totalitarian state oppressing some minorities like the Muslim Uighurs in that far away province of Xinjiang...  but to make it an example?  Does this guy have a mentor? He obviously got some of what he says or did from elsewhere and not much, if any, is American.

So, you know, Australia is about as far from us as can be really.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #188 on: March 16, 2019, 11:18:32 pm »
There's a lot on this story that I as a Westerner, don't readily see and know and this is another example. I mean, I know that China is a totalitarian state oppressing some minorities like the Muslim Uighurs in that far away province of Xinjiang...  but to make it an example?  Does this guy have a mentor? He obviously got some of what he says or did from elsewhere and not much, if any, is American.

So, you know, Australia is about as far from us as can be really.

Blame everyone but the perpetrator.

Offline TomSea

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #189 on: March 16, 2019, 11:56:53 pm »
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 01:29:28 am by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #190 on: March 16, 2019, 11:58:44 pm »
Quote
The man charged over Friday's twin mosque attacks in the New Zealand city of Christchurch is believed to have acted alone, police say.

Australian Brenton Tarrant, 28, a self-described white supremacist, live-streamed the attack on Facebook.

Three others arrested afterwards are not believed to have been involved, Police Commissioner Mike Bush said, but added that he could not be conclusive.

More at: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47599586




Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #191 on: March 17, 2019, 02:37:46 am »
According to what we are told by the international media 'White Supremacist' are under your bed. They are everywhere. Just being born White means you are a Supremacist.

Forget about Shakespeare or the Sistine Chapel, unless you live like these guys you are a White Supremacy guy. And even they are not safe. They might be White Supremacist in disguise...? You never know...


In today's language, White Supremacy just means simply being White. That is all it takes. It is kind of a complement in a way. It is just the world recognizing that White people are White. And it drives them crazy.



Those guys look like the LEFT...with piercings and tattoo's...thing's hanging from their ears.  Same I.Q.  888mouth

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #192 on: March 17, 2019, 02:44:56 am »


Those guys look like the LEFT...with piercings and tattoo's...thing's hanging from their ears.  Same I.Q.  888mouth

Coincidence???   

 :pondering:
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Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #193 on: March 17, 2019, 02:46:51 am »
Splinter group who thought 4chan was too restrictive for them.

If you don't want people complaining that your posts are garbage, " @LegalAmerican ," don't post stuff from the Internet's worst garbage can.


One more time;  I do not go on those sites. My friend, a MUSLIM DOCTOR, soldier In Afghanistan, posted that.  People were to read his words. The links came with his comment, and the "shooter" was said to post on Chan 8.  IT WAS INFORMATION...for thought.  The doctor,  is very smart & I do not consider what I post as garbage.  Trying to minimize correct information,  which is done mostly by "lefts'. People who want real truth would look and do some critical thinking, not just shoot the messenger. My posts have more truth than any of you are willing to admit.   

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-15/christchurch-shooting-brenton-tarrant-what-we-know/10904744

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #194 on: March 17, 2019, 03:02:03 am »

Accused Christchurch mosque shooter used same radicalisation tactics as Islamic State, expert say=ARTICLE

---------
SPENT TIME IN PAKISTAN..lived in Turkey for a while.  Visited North Korea...some muslim country's.  Now, NOTICE....QUESTION MARK

RADICALIZED?   

Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #195 on: March 17, 2019, 03:20:49 am »


Those guys look like the LEFT...with piercings and tattoo's...thing's hanging from their ears.  Same I.Q.  888mouth

Wait, what?  Racist much?
I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline TomSea

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #196 on: March 17, 2019, 03:44:55 am »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/03/16/north-korea-pakistan-bulgaria-unusual-travels-new-zealand-shooting-suspect/

Washington Post said he's been to North Korea, Bulgaria and Pakistan, I was seeing if he'd been to Turkey, indeed, the the Sun.co.uk does say he has.

Quote
Security sources told The Independent they believed the shooter may have met with extreme right-wing groups during a visit to Europe two years ago.

It has been claimed Tarrant started to travel about 2011 after the death of his father, heading to Turkey and Pakistan, as well as the Balkans.


The young man's multiple visits to Turkey are also being probed, Ankara confirmed.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8650353/mi5-brenton-tarrant-extremists-britain/

As if we should care about this guy but clearing it up.

To Japan and India too, that's a lot of traveling, I'd imagine that would cost plenty but some people have that kind of money. He worked for a time with a company similar to bitcoin.

Turkey, Bulgaria, to the Balkans and he did show some interest in the Balkans, some of what was written on his rifle is in Cyrillic. Maybe he had contacts in these places.... somehow.  Was interested in some battles that the Ottoman Empire had against European powers.



« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 03:55:56 am by TomSea »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #197 on: March 17, 2019, 04:27:51 am »
New Zealand Prime Minister says, 'Our gun laws will change'

"There were five guns used by the primary perpetrator," she said at a news conference in Wellington. "There were two semi-automatic weapons and two shotguns. The offender was in possession of a gun license. I'm advised this was acquired in November of 2017. A lever-action firearm was also found."

She said the suspect, identified as Brenton Tarrant, obtained a gun license in November 2017 and began purchasing guns legally in December 2017.

"While work is being done as to the chain of events that lead to both the holding of this gun license and the possession of these weapons, I can tell you one thing right now. Our gun laws will change." Ardern said.


https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/03/15/asia/new-zealand-gun-control-intl/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F


Naturally....
Let me preface these remarks by saying in no way do I endorse, support, approve, or embrace the tactic of shooting people merely for being present in their house of worship, which appears to be the primary criterion used by the shooter. Murder is murder. I'm saying this here, simply because I said it at the end of these comments, but not everyone will read that far, and some might mistake some comment as approval of him or his actions. I do not approve.

Some thoughts....(Yes, I have been reading his crap "manifesto", partly because I don't trust the Media to do anything but cherry pick it for parts that suit the narrative they want to present, and partly to see what made this jerk tick.)

Quote
Won’t your attack result in calls for the removal of gun rights from Whites in the United states?
Yes, that is the plan all along, you said you would fight to protect your rights and the constitution, well soon will come the time.

Now who does that crap serve? Trying to start a war, any war in the US, and bringing up "Whites" is Turner Diaries stuff. While I admit, I'm not happy with the naked radicalism and hate by Islamic groups here, especially voiced of late, but starting a war in the US over our RKBA (something all Americans have, not just "Whites") isn't something we need right now, and will only work against us all.

This nutcase cannot be allowed to affect American politics, nor our Rights. 

Quote
Won’t your attack result in calls for the removal of gun rights in the New Zealand?
The gun owners of New Zealand are a beaten, miserable bunch of baby boomers, who have long since given up the fight. When was the last time they won increased rights? Their loss was inevitable. I just accelerated things a bit. They had long since lost their cities, take a look at Auckland. Did you really expect they would not also lose their rights?

Stated goal. By changing gun laws in any way to restrict the rights of New Zealanders to own firearms, the PM plays right into his "manifesto". Hopefully, she will reconsider.

If there is any doubt that this guy is unhinged (not just through his actions, consider the following, also lifted from his "manifesto":
Quote
You are a bigot, racist, xenophobe, islamophobe, nazi, fascist!
A. Compliments will get you nowhere.
B. That isn’t a question.
C. What the f**k did you just f**king say about me, you little b*tch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla [sic] warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the bleep out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my f**king words. You think you can get away with saying that sh*t to me over the Internet? Think again, f**ker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're f**king dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little sh*t.    If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your f**king tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you damn idiot. Iwill sh*t fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're f**king dead, kiddo.
(swearwords edited by me)
Now aside from the apparent Role Playing Gamer sort of response, I must note that this "manifesto" is sort of a self-interview, at least up to that point. But answer "C" refers to the US, to the SEALs, to the USMC, and reads like a bad imitation of one of my favorite actors doing a Marine D.I.

Just who is he responding to if he is the one asking the questions?

The dude is delusional, and unfortunately acted on it. While there are a host of other things which identify this guy as bloody insane, the possibly valid concerns he brought up will be lost in or identified with ravings just like this one, and by association, ANY valid concern or complaint he had will be considered part of the deranged ravings. Stuff like that just leaves more meat for the MSM and global outlets to decry valid concerns present by associating them with ravings.

As a result, concerns about cultural replacement, birth rates, immigration, and lack of assimilation will be lost in or considered part of this nutcase's general mindset, and a thing to be avoided (like the plague). In turn, those expressing such concerns can now be hunted, searched out, and scrutinized far beyond what normal discourse would merit, by authorities who can voice specific concerns for the safety of the general (and specific parts of the) population, and used to demonize any who might have concerns about valid issues.
New internet flags will be tripped over the mention of such issues, claiming that because this event happened, anyone who is concerned about these issues should be watched, 'red flagged' as potential terrorists, or what have you.

If he is in any way sincere about those concerns, he has done far more harm than good, and murder, especially the murder of innocents is unconscionable, whoever they are.
Bottom line is that this whacko knew that his acts would have impact everywhere, and like Manson or other extreme racists of any stripe, he is trying to start a race war, foment crisis and insurrection, or provide the excuses governments need to become more totalitarian, eliciting (sooner or later) a response.

Quote
Why focus on immigration and birth rates when climate change is such a huge issue?
Because they are the same issue, the environment is being destroyed by over population, we Europeans are one of the groups that are not overpopulating the world. The invaders are the ones overpopulating the world. Kill the invaders, kill the overpopulation and by doing so save the environment.

Now, that whole bit is so messed up on so many levels... but here goes.

First, I'd like to note that before the European expansion during the 1400s and beyond, the Europeans were the invaders. Since then the same folks have been pretty much in control of who came and went.  Still are.
Second, if the "invaders" are overpopulating the world, shooting up 50-100 people in an area where cultural bias is in the opposite direction really isn't the way to address this concern. The real "overpopulating" is going on elsewhere, feeding the refugee swarms that are going forth to the very areas he expresses greatest concern over.
So why not go to one of those places and shoot up the joint, instead?

As far as the environment goes, the 'big green mantra' is that the destruction isn't so much being done through overpopulation, but by technology, as the most industrialized first world economies are the consistent target of environmentalists, not those who live in relatively primitive squalor outside of that European/American sphere of cultural influence. If overpopulation is the problem, is New Zealand the place this alleged traveler should address it? Obviously, this excuse is crap.


Unfortunately, because this guy is all over the map, some valid points are made in the document, points which are likely to be lost in the controversy surrounding it, and which will be soiled with the taint associated with this murder and mayhem, and which may be discarded by those who should listen most because of that affiliation. Certainly, those same points will be decried by association with the shooter when raised by others, in the MSM. There is a fast-track demonization for any source which agrees with even the smallest fraction of what the shooter posted.

In that, the shooter, in even his most lucid moments has done great disservice to any cause he may have embraced (something which seems to go in multiple directions at once). This also reaches to these shores and pertinent issues here:

Quote
Soon the replacement of the whites within Texas will hit its apogee and with the non-white political and social control of Texas; and with this control, the electoral college will be heavily stacked in favor of a democratic victory so that every electoral cycle will be a certainty.]

This is a concern expressed, even here, although not on racial lines, but on Citizenship lines, (Illegals vs citizens) and the influx of Leftists from elsewhere. Odd that he should consistently make reference to the US and our politics, but in fairness, when I say 'He's all over the map', his references include Europe, the Middle East (well, Asia Minor), Africa, the South Pacific (Australia/New Zealand) and Asia as well.

These tidbits are being provided for discussion, and do not constitute an agreement with his statements in general, nor any form of approval of his methods.
 
It would have been far preferable if he had simply posted his ideas on the internet, on a blog site and left them open to lucid comment and analysis without the blood of innocents spattered all over those concepts.
Unfortunately, the author of the 'manifesto' in cult-like fashion, apparently only saw a violent and apocalyptic means to the end of addressing problems he identified, one which I must decry for the slaughter of people who had not, in the Western tradition, been convicted of any wrongdoing.

Murder is murder, and in so doing, the man increases the distance between the present and any solutions to whatever real problems he mentioned that exist.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

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C S Lewis

Offline TomSea

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #198 on: March 17, 2019, 04:44:56 am »
Great post, great analysis. Good read, thanks for posting all of that....a lot of food for thought.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)
« Reply #199 on: March 17, 2019, 04:48:21 am »
Great post, great analysis. Good read, thanks for posting all of that....a lot of food for thought.
Thanks, Tom.
I think, despite the guy's actions, it is worth reading, not to justify anything he said (and definitely not his tactics), nor to distance ourselves from points we may feel are valid, but to know what the Media will tie to him, if nothing else.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis