President Trump's Rumored Potential Border Wall Deal Sounds Like Disastrous 1986 Immigration Comprom

[libertybele]

1.  Any illegal alien caught anywhere inside the US other than a point of entry who subsequently seeks asylum can be detained indefinitely until their asylum case is resolved.

2.  Any alien who is deported forfeits the right to return to the US.  Violation constitutes a felony punishable by two years in prison.

3.  It is a violation of federal law for anyone without legal residency to receive federal aid.


So, stop releasing asylum seekers into American society while their cases are pending.  Start prosecuting and incarcerating repeat border violators.  And above all else, stop giving free stuff to illegals.  All three of these are within the President's power.  All three are backed by law.

I think that pretty much spells it out for those who refuse to look at the big picture.

[Hoodat]

There is no law that prevents the President from enforcing existing laws, as you know. However you
need resources (money) and the money comes from Congress.

Number 3 by itself leaves more than enough left over to pay for 1 and 2.  Seriously, what in the hell is wrong with you people that you can't even get on board with cutting off food stamps and public housing to illegals?  No wonder you hate us Conservatives so much.

[Hoodat]

All of which require Congress to change laws

These are the laws now.

[Jazzhead]

Good to see you concede the point that deporting a child that grew up here to a county they don't know could seem cruel and unusual to humans with human empathy.

Yes,  I agree.   But similarly cruel and unusual is the Dem's fake empathy for these children,  and their willingness to use them as pawns to advance their jihad against Trump.

Trump's the only one now speaking of normalizing the Dreamers by legislation to replace unlawful executive orders.  It's a shame that the SCOTUS won't opine on such orders; it removes the Dems' incentive to strike a deal.   But you'd think they'd seek a deal just because they're "humans with human empathy".   Instead,  they're just the usual political animals.   

[jpsb]

Number 3 by itself leaves more than enough left over to pay for 1 and 2.  Seriously, what in the hell is wrong with you people that you can't even get on board with cutting off food stamps and public housing to illegals?  No wonder you hate us Conservatives so much.

Educate yourself, it is already illegal for illegal aliens to receive means tested federal benefits. So no
#3 will not pay for 1 & 2. There are only so many beds and so many immigration judges. How are
you going to deport them all with limited resources? Are you suggesting that we lock up 20+ million
people for years while they wait for their immigration status hearing? Think the American people
would be ok with that?

FYI the SC has already ruled that we have to provide them with emergency medical care and that we
have to educate their kids. The system is being overwhelmed and without resources and immigration
reform (Congress) there is little Trump can do.

[Jazzhead]

Educate yourself, it is already illegal for illegal aliens to receive means tested federal benefits. So no
#3 will not pay for 1 & 2. There are only so many beds and so many immigration judges. How are
you going to deport them all with limited resources? Are you suggesting that we lock up 20+ million
people for years while they wait for their immigration status hearing? Think the American people
would be ok with that?

FYI the SC has already ruled that we have to provide them with emergency medical care and that we
have to educate their kids. The system is being overwhelmed and without resources and immigration
reform (Congress) there is little Trump can do.

QFT.  Although we may disagree on the way ahead.  Either you commit the resources to build the detention centers and hire the judges, or you strike a deal whereby those who've kept their noses clean can remain here legally.    I like the latter approach both because it's realistic, and because, if executed well,  it draws a line of demarcation between those illegals who are productive assets and those who are not.   

[libertybele]

Yes,  I agree.   But similarly cruel and unusual is the Dem's fake empathy for these children,  and their willingness to use them as pawns to advance their jihad against Trump.

Trump's the only one now speaking of normalizing the Dreamers by legislation to replace unlawful executive orders.  It's a shame that the SCOTUS won't opine on such orders; it removes the Dems' incentive to strike a deal.   But you'd think they'd seek a deal just because they're "humans with human empathy".   Instead,  they're just the usual political animals.

Take a look at the 'flip side' for a minute.  What is similarly cruel is allowing hundreds of thousands of people to enter this country ILLEGALLY that have wreaked havoc on our country.  What about the families who have loved ones that have been affected by murder, rape, burglary, and other violent attacks? What about all those who fail to assimilate to our values and who are trying to implement Sharia?  We ALL have suffered in some way from illegal immigration as it has put a tremendous drain on this country economically and we can no longer support this invasion. 

Human empathy HAS to be considered for the citizens of this country FIRST.  Otherwise, we will quickly turn into another Germany or France, which is exactly where we are headed if we don't get a wall, enforce our existing laws and stop granting amnesty or asylum to everyone that comes here.

[Sanguine]

I see you did not brother to read the article I posted.

I did.  And, it says things may change.  Or, not. 

[Jazzhead]

Take a look at the 'flip side' for a minute.  What is similarly cruel is allowing hundreds of thousands of people to enter this country ILLEGALLY that have wreaked havoc on our country.  What about the families who have loved ones that have been affected by murder, rape, burglary, and other violent attacks? What about all those who fail to assimilate to our values and who are trying to implement Sharia?  We ALL have suffered in some way from illegal immigration as it has put a tremendous drain on this country economically and we can no longer support this invasion. 

Human empathy HAS to be considered for the citizens of this country FIRST.  Otherwise, we will quickly turn into another Germany or France, which is exactly where we are headed if we don't get a wall, enforce our existing laws and stop granting amnesty or asylum to everyone that comes here.

Most do not commit murder and mayhem;  most work hard to support their families.   If they don't assimilate,  that may be largely because their illegal status keeps them from doing do.   But history has shown that while first generation immigrants retain their language and culture, the second generation largely assimilates.

It is important not to condemn the majority with lurid tales of a small minority.   As for "sharia", Muslims under our Constitution have the same right to practice and proselytize their religion as you do as a Christian.   You want the laws to conform to your moral beliefs concerning abortion, don't you?   How is that any different than a Muslim wanting to practice sharia?     

[Sanguine]

Most do not commit murder and mayhem;  most work hard to support their families.   If they don't assimilate,  that may be largely because their illegal status keeps them from doing do.   But history has shown that while first generation immigrants retain their language and culture, the second generation largely assimilates.

It is important not to condemn the majority with lurid tales of a small minority.   As for "sharia", Muslims under our Constitution have the same right to practice and proselytize their religion as you do as a Christian.   You want the laws to conform to your moral beliefs concerning abortion, don't you?   How is that any different than a Muslim wanting to practice sharia?   

If by "most" you mean the vast majority, then your statement is wrong. 

https://100percentfedup.com/new-study-shows-75-of-illegal-aliens-commit-felonies/

[libertybele]

Most do not commit murder and mayhem;  most work hard to support their families.   If they don't assimilate,  that may be largely because their illegal status keeps them from doing do.   But history has shown that while first generation immigrants retain their language and culture, the second generation largely assimilates.

It is important not to condemn the majority with lurid tales of a small minority.   As for "sharia", Muslims under our Constitution have the same right to practice and proselytize their religion as you do as a Christian.   You want the laws to conform to your moral beliefs concerning abortion, don't you?   How is that any different than a Muslim wanting to practice sharia?   

Most.  That is the key word.  We need to protect MOST of the U.S. citizens.  It is impossible to keep every illegal who is a murderer, terrorist, bomber, gang member, ISIS etc., out of this country.  What we can do is keep MOST of U.S. citizens safe by building a wall, deporting ILLEGALS including criminals and stop releasing ILLEGALS back into our society and stopping ALL migration into this country until we get control of our immigration policies.  I have no problem with LEGAL immigration, but I do have a problem with granting AMNESTY to those who are here ILLEGALLY.

Sharia law should NOT be allowed to challenge or override U.S. laws and our Constitution.  Slowly, there is a push.  If this wasn't a concern, you wouldn't have states banning Sharia law, or passing some kind of ballot measure that prohibits the states courts from considering foreign, international or religious law. As of 2014 Alabama, Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Dakota and Tennessee have such laws.

I expect people to uphold the Constitution, not 'bend' the law to fit their agenda.

[jpsb]

Most do not commit murder and mayhem;  most work hard to support their families.   If they don't assimilate,  that may be largely because their illegal status keeps them from doing do.   But history has shown that while first generation immigrants retain their language and culture, the second generation largely assimilates.

It is important not to condemn the majority with lurid tales of a small minority.   As for "sharia", Muslims under our Constitution have the same right to practice and proselytize their religion as you do as a Christian.   You want the laws to conform to your moral beliefs concerning abortion, don't you?   How is that any different than a Muslim wanting to practice sharia?   

A lot of them do commit murder and mayhem. According to a new study illegals are much more likely to commit a violent crime than a natural born citizen. The only point I was trying to make is
that Trump can not solve our illegal problem without Congress. I am willing on a case by case
bases to cut the DACA people some lack. I am not willing to do a damn thing for those that
knowingly entered our country illegally. They need to go home. Period. Build the holding centers
and hire the judges. Deal with repeat offenders first then move on the others but deport them all.

[libertybele]

A lot of them do commit murder and mayhem. According to a new study illegals are much more likely to commit a violent crime than a natural born citizen. The only point I was trying to make is
that Trump can not solve our illegal problem without Congress. I am willing on a case by case
bases to cut the DACA people some lack. I am not willing to do a damn thing for those that
knowingly entered our country illegally. They need to go home. Period. Build the holding centers
and hire the judges. Deal with repeat offenders first then move on the others but deport them all.

I have stated several times that the President is just one person and we have 535 members of Congress that we need to hold accountable.  However, the President IS the Commander and Chief and he has the authority to secure our borders and a duty to protect U.S. citizens.  Both Houses of Congress passed the Secure Fence Act in 2006. 

As for $$ --- there are all kinds of 'slush' projects that monies could be redirected.  We give billions to others in foreign aid --- certainly enough to build a wall.  As Cruz suggested -- El  Chapo money could be used.

[Jazzhead]

If by "most" you mean the vast majority, then your statement is wrong. 

https://100percentfedup.com/new-study-shows-75-of-illegal-aliens-commit-felonies/

Oh, c'mon,  @Sanguine,  you're better than that.   The article creates its alarmist premise by counting as a "felony" the act of obtaining a false Social Security number.   I'm not condoning that practice, but it's done precisely because an illegal seeks to work, not commit  murder and mayhem.

Most illegals come here not to exploit and victimize, but rather to work.    I have long been in favor of trading border security and long-needed changes to our legal immigration laws for normalizing the status of those here illegally who've nevertheless kept their noses clean and contributed to our economy.   Is that an ideal situation?  Of course not - in a perfect world, they would have entered the U.S. to work legally.  But three decades of lax enforcement have brought us to where we are.  It is well past time for a grand bargain - too bad it couldn't get done when Republicans held both houses of Congress.   Now we have to deal with the Dems who have no appetite for a bargain that will take the political issue off the table.       

[Jazzhead]

. I am not willing to do a damn thing for those that
knowingly entered our country illegally. They need to go home. Period. Build the holding centers
and hire the judges. Deal with repeat offenders first then move on the others but deport them all.

Since there's no political will to build the detention centers to hold and process tens of millions of illegals,  then you're in favor of no solution at all. 

A grand bargain holds the promise of separating the majority of productive illegals from the bad ones.   

[Jazzhead]

Sharia law should NOT be allowed to challenge or override U.S. laws and our Constitution.  Slowly, there is a push.  If this wasn't a concern, you wouldn't have states banning Sharia law, or passing some kind of ballot measure that prohibits the states courts from considering foreign, international or religious law. As of 2014 Alabama, Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Dakota and Tennessee have such laws.

I expect people to uphold the Constitution, not 'bend' the law to fit their agenda.

I don't fear Muslims who want to implement sharia law any more than I fear Christians who want the laws to reflect their moral priorities.     The Constitution separates church and state.   

[Sanguine]

Oh, c'mon,  @Sanguine,  you're better than that.   The article creates its alarmist premise by counting as a "felony" the act of obtaining a false Social Security number.   I'm not condoning that practice, but it's done precisely because an illegal seeks to work, not commit  murder and mayhem.

Most illegals come here not to exploit and victimize, but rather to work.    I have long been in favor of trading border security and long-needed changes to our legal immigration laws for normalizing the status of those here illegally who've nevertheless kept their noses clean and contributed to our economy.   Is that an ideal situation?  Of course not - in a perfect world, they would have entered the U.S. to work legally.  But three decades of lax enforcement have brought us to where we are.  It is well past time for a grand bargain - too bad it couldn't get done when Republicans held both houses of Congress.   Now we have to deal with the Dems who have no appetite for a bargain that will take the political issue off the table.     

Oh, come on, @Jazzhead.  I knew you would take that stance and that's why I linked to that article.  First of all, it is a felony.  You or I would serve jail time for it.  Secondly, that is not the only felony that constitutes the statistics; illegal aliens simply do commit more crimes that do citizens.

Secondly, you point about "coming here to work" is also incorrect.  The majority of illegal alien homes do use some form(s) of welfare.  You're wrong on both counts. 

[jpsb]

As for $$ --- there are all kinds of 'slush' projects that monies could be redirected.  We give billions to others in foreign aid --- certainly enough to build a wall.  As Cruz suggested -- El  Chapo money could be used.

In case you haven't noticed Trump is fighting as hard as he can to get the $$$ from Congress to
begin to secure the border. He doesn't have a magic wand.

[Chosen Daughter]

Educate yourself, it is already illegal for illegal aliens to receive means tested federal benefits. So no
#3 will not pay for 1 & 2. There are only so many beds and so many immigration judges. How are
you going to deport them all with limited resources? Are you suggesting that we lock up 20+ million
people for years while they wait for their immigration status hearing? Think the American people
would be ok with that?

FYI the SC has already ruled that we have to provide them with emergency medical care and that we
have to educate their kids. The system is being overwhelmed and without resources and immigration
reform (Congress) there is little Trump can do.

States certainly are.  I posted on Washington State.  So you stop all Federal Funds to states who give it away to illegal aliens.

[Jazzhead]

Oh, come on, @Jazzhead.  I knew you would take that stance and that's why I linked to that article.  First of all, it is a felony.  You or I would serve jail time for it.  Secondly, that is not the only felony that constitutes the statistics; illegal aliens simply do commit more crimes that do citizens.

Secondly, you point about "coming here to work" is also incorrect.  The majority of illegal alien homes do use some form(s) of welfare.  You're wrong on both counts.

We agree that illegal immigration is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.   In that,  we differ from many politicians who see the issue as one to exploit to animate their base.   

I'm sure we disagree on how to address the problem, but we agree that the time for kicking the can is over.   My point is simply that it the path to a solution is not helped by not demonizing these folks;  most have come here to work and support their families.   

[Sanguine]

We agree that illegal immigration is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.   In that,  we differ from many politicians who see the issue as one to exploit to animate their base.   

I'm sure we disagree on how to address the problem, but we agree that the time for kicking the can is over.   My point is simply that it the path to a solution is not helped by not demonizing these folks;  most have come here to work and support their families.   

So, you're saying I'm demonizing them by pointing out the facts?  @Jazzhead

[txradioguy]

Oh, c'mon,  @Sanguine,  you're better than that.   The article creates its alarmist premise by counting as a "felony" the act of obtaining a false Social Security number.   I'm not condoning that practice, but it's done precisely because an illegal seeks to work, not commit  murder and mayhem.

And yet in the next breath you condone and justify it.

Most illegals come here not to exploit and victimize, but rather to work.   

If they come here to work then why is our own government running commercials in Mexico showing people how to get welfare benefits once they get here?

And as Sanguine showed...they aren't coming here out of love and the dream of a better life...their are either forced to the states for prostitution or as drug mules by the cartels or are outright gang banging thugs themselves.

You're willingly under the illusion that the media has fed you about who exactly is coming to the states.

[Jazzhead]

So, you're saying I'm demonizing them by pointing out the facts?  @Jazzhead

No, @Sanguine, and my apologies for that.   The post I was thinking of that "demonized" illegal immigrants was libertybelle's, not yours.   You posted following my response to LB with your link to an article noting, in its breathless headline, that SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT of illegals had committed felonies.    The study notwithstanding, the article you linked to struck me as having the characteristics of most agenda-driven media coverage these days -  a headline designed to incite,  that upon further inspection isn't that big a deal.   So illegals come here to work, and get false SSNs to do so.   Not ideal, of course,  but hardly a refutation of my point that most come here to work and support their families, not commit murder and mayhem.   

[Jazzhead]

You're willingly under the illusion that the media has fed you about who exactly is coming to the states.

And you're willingly subscribed to the prejudices encouraged by right wing media.   

The circumstances of these folks differ, as with all of us.   Those who come here to commit violent crimes deserve no sympathy whatsoever.   But those are the ones displayed for purposes of demonization by right wing media.   

The bottom line is that this is a problem that can only be solved by political compromise.  And to do that,  each side has to convince itself that there is more to be gained by solving the problem than by allowing it to fester for political advantage.   The Dems are the most cynical folks in the world - they say they care about the plight of the "good" illegals,  but in the end they won't lift a finger to help them given the evil game they'd rather play with Donald Trump.   

[Hoodat]

Educate yourself, it is already illegal for illegal aliens to receive means tested federal benefits.

Glad to see you finally admit that the law already exists, and that no further act of Congress is required.

So no, #3 will not pay for 1 & 2.

The flaw in your argument here is that you assume that just because it is illegal, that it does not happen.  Sadly, this is not the case.  The States who are in charge of distributing food stamps, free housing, section 8 vouchers, Obamacare policies, etc., do a very poor job of policing beneficiaries.  Some States (like California) openly defy federal law by intentionally handing out benefits to illegals.  This has got to stop.  And the President has within his power the ability to control all monies that Congress has allocated.  In fact, it is his Constitutional responsibility to do so.  Put an end to those handouts, and your HHS warehouse/detention centers can be funded.

There are only so many beds and so many immigration judges.

There is a federal prison here in Atlanta that is completely empty, yet it remains an open drain on federal dollars.  It could easily house a large number of asylum seekers who willfully sought to enter this country illegally by bypassing points of entry.

There is another prison in Illinois that remains empty.  It is a recent purchase by the Obama Administration.  In fact, you will find this scenario repeated over and over again across the country where federal government property sits idle.  And there is nothing stopping a President from appointing more judges either in order to lighten the work load.

How are you going to deport them all with limited resources?

The only deportations mentioned are for those who are caught back inside the US after a previous deportation.  Not sure what resources are needed other than putting them on a plane back to their home country after serving their two years in prison.

Are you suggesting that we lock up 20+ million people for years while they wait for their immigration status hearing?

Paging Captain Hyperbole .  .  .  Please pick up the white courtesy phone.  .  .  .  Paging Captain Hyperbole  .  .  .

Think the American people would be ok with that?

The majority of them would.  There once was a time when Trump sycophants would.  But for some reason, they have suddenly gone soft.

FYI the SC has already ruled that we have to provide them with emergency medical care and that we
have to educate their kids.

Emergency medical care?  That's the law.  Educate their kids?  Nope.  That is a State issue, not a federal one.

The system is being overwhelmed and without resources and immigration reform (Congress) there is little Trump can do.

I had no idea that Trump was such an ineffective leader.  The Trump sycophants have been lying to us this whole time.