Trump threatened to keep government shut down for ‘months or even years’ to get border wall funds, D

[skeeter]

Illegal immigration is an existential issue.  This is the line in the sand.  There will be many howls and gnashing of teeth over it.  Don't lose sight of the goal.

And, to hell with the CRs.  Pass a damned budget.  That should be another line in the sand.

As for government employees, they can 1. spend out of savings, and since government shutdowns due to lack of budget has become the norm rather than the exception, they should have been saving for this inevitablity.  They can pay back their savings when they do get paid.   And, 2. they can call their debtors and ask for extensions until they are paid.  Most debtors will be willing to do that.

My sympathies are with the thousands of Americans suffering & dying from the flow of drugs and illegals into the country, less so with a bureaucrat who's not getting paid on time.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Ah yes, the (nonexistent) empathy of the typical Orange Brigadier.

Are you claiming government workers don't have the same smarts needed to manage their own lives as private sector unemployed souls do?

@Night Hides Not

[edpc]

It doesn't matter who shuts it down or who keeps it shut down ...what matters is that President Trump gets $$ needed for the wall period.

Of course it matters. Remember around this time last year, when it was very effectively labeled the Schumer Shutdown? It forced him to capitulate.

[Mesaclone]

My sympathies are with the thousands of Americans suffering & dying from the flow of drugs and illegals into the country, less so with a bureaucrat who's not getting paid on time.

I'm not a bureaucrat...and I'm not getting paid. So knock down that straw man right now.

I want Trump to keep this thing shut down until the Dems cave. Period. But make no mistake, most of those "not getting paid" are not bureaucrats. They are Border Patrol Officers, ICE officers, Marshals and blue collar screeners working at airports....so lets not pretend they are faceless bureaucrats living fat off the public dime. Heck, 95% of government bureaucrats are getting paid on time while the guys busting our butts on the ground are getting hosed. But as we 've seen, most of the on the ground guys want a wall...and want the President to keep fighting for it.

And those posting the smug little "they should have saved" comments are clueless and have no heart. A lot of the people not getting paid...but who still must work every day...are making crap pay and have no means of saving for multi-month shutdowns. I'm lucky in that I'm older and have savings to rely on, hell, I can go 6 months if I have to without blinking. But a 22 year old with 2 kids supporting his family on $32,000 a year living in Los Angeles or New York....is hurting already...in another month they will not be able to put food on the table. So a little sympathy for those in that position would look good on you.

All that said, this is on the Dems. Trump is doing the right thing and in the end that will prevail...I just don't like the arrogance I'm seeing here regarding the suffering people are facing in this situation.

[Emjay]

I'm not a bureaucrat...and I'm not getting paid. So knock down that straw man right now.

I want Trump to keep this thing shut down until the Dems cave. Period. But make no mistake, most of those "not getting paid" are not bureaucrats. They are Border Patrol Officers, ICE officers, Marshals and blue collar screeners working at airports....so lets not pretend they are faceless bureaucrats living fat off the public dime. Heck, 95% of government bureaucrats are getting paid on time while the guys busting our butts on the ground are getting hosed. But as we 've seen, most of the on the ground guys want a wall...and want the President to keep fighting for it.

And those posting the smug little "they should have saved" comments are clueless and have no heart. A lot of the people not getting paid...but who still must work every day...are making crap pay and have no means of saving for multi-month shutdowns. I'm lucky in that I'm older and have savings to rely on, hell, I can go 6 months if I have to without blinking. But a 22 year old with 2 kids supporting his family on $32,000 a year living in Los Angeles or New York....is hurting already...in another month they will not be able to put food on the table. So a little sympathy for those in that position would look good on you.

All that said, this is on the Dems. Trump is doing the right thing and in the end that will prevail...I just don't like the arrogance I'm seeing here regarding the suffering people are facing in this situation.

I was a government worker for many years, mostly for the Social Security Administration.

I also resent the cavalier attitude some are displaying about government workers going without paychecks.  They are mostly working for medium pay and need that medium paycheck. 

But I hope the American people blame the forces who are really at fault and that is the democrats who will not budge on the wall, solely because they hate Trump and getting the wall would be a triumph for him.

[Fishrrman]

Sanguine wrote:
"Illegal immigration is an existential issue.  This is the line in the sand.  There will be many howls and gnashing of teeth over it.  Don't lose sight of the goal."

Right you are.
Keep our eyes on the prize.

I'm gonna say this right outloud:

All those gubmint workers who aren't getting paid right now (but who WILL be paid EVERY CENT THEY'RE OWED in due time):

Eff 'em.
That's right. Eff 'em all.

90% of them have allegiance to the democrat-communist party, and don't vote "for us" anyway.

The 10% who DO lean towards our side almost certainly have made provisions to "hold them over" through this shutdown.

But the rest of those democrat-communist government workers:
EFF 'EM !

(ain't I such a nice guy???)

[Restored]

I’m done doing homework for others. All this has happened within the last two weeks and has been widely covered. Look it up yourselves.

Good because you aren't very good at it.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll472.xml

The House bill added the Wall Funding and it was passed. The Democrats in the Senate would not allow a floor vote on the Bill so the government was shut down.

Your Rollcall article was from January 2018

[Chosen Daughter]

My sympathies are with the thousands of Americans suffering & dying from the flow of drugs and illegals into the country, less so with a bureaucrat who's not getting paid on time.

Amen,

They are aware when they take the job that the government can shut down.  Anyway truth is that they are a few in the bigger picture of loss to this country by open borders.

To someone who lost a loved one to an illegal immigrant a paycheck that will come eventually means nothing.  To the mother or father of a child addicted to Mexican cartel drugs a paycheck means nothing.  To all who see illegal immigrants invading their states......paycheck nothing.

My sympathy is to the mother and father of a seemingly perfect child who suddenly is their drug addict.  To the mother and father of the child hit by an illegal alien drunk driver.  The people who pay taxes for the 30% incarceration rate of illegal immigrants in our prisons.  The taxpayer who pays to educate the children of illegal immigrant.  That pay to feed and take care of their families.

[Restored]

The Democrats shut down the government because the Continuation Bill contained money for the Wall. Trump didn't shut down the government because he didn't get money for the Wall. He got the money for the Wall.  The Democrats shut down the government in order to stop the Wall.
"On 12/20/2018, the House agreed to a further amendment to H.R. 695 by a roll call vote. The House amendment extends the initial CR (Div. C of P.L. 115-245) through 2/08/2019, as the Senate amendment did, and also includes an additional $5.7 billion for U.S. Customs and Border Protection – Procurement, Construction, and Improvements, and an additional $7.81 billion for disaster relief.  "
https://www.congress.gov/resources/display/content/Appropriations+for+Fiscal+Year+2019

[Chosen Daughter]

@Night Hides Not
@mystery-ak

What if you had to call the mortgage company, utility companies, all companies where you owe money, plus buy groceries, because you don't have a paycheck?

I don't understand people here being glad these government workers don't have a paycheck.

Credit is great if you have it.  And there is plenty of low interest loans for people with good credit.  This will all be over soon if the Democrats do the right thing for America.

[skeeter]

I'm not a bureaucrat...and I'm not getting paid. So knock down that straw man right now.

I want Trump to keep this thing shut down until the Dems cave. Period. But make no mistake, most of those "not getting paid" are not bureaucrats. They are Border Patrol Officers, ICE officers, Marshals and blue collar screeners working at airports....so lets not pretend they are faceless bureaucrats living fat off the public dime. Heck, 95% of government bureaucrats are getting paid on time while the guys busting our butts on the ground are getting hosed. But as we 've seen, most of the on the ground guys want a wall...and want the President to keep fighting for it.

And those posting the smug little "they should have saved" comments are clueless and have no heart. A lot of the people not getting paid...but who still must work every day...are making crap pay and have no means of saving for multi-month shutdowns. I'm lucky in that I'm older and have savings to rely on, hell, I can go 6 months if I have to without blinking. But a 22 year old with 2 kids supporting his family on $32,000 a year living in Los Angeles or New York....is hurting already...in another month they will not be able to put food on the table. So a little sympathy for those in that position would look good on you.

All that said, this is on the Dems. Trump is doing the right thing and in the end that will prevail...I just don't like the arrogance I'm seeing here regarding the suffering people are facing in this situation.

It ain't my straw man. You should take it up with those who are using it as one - the same people who've show NO sympathy to those of us who've felt the real effects resulting from the fecklessness, selfishness and dishonesty of those charged by us with protecting the border for the past umpteen years.

[Chosen Daughter]

Some folks refuse to budge. Some conservatives made up their mind along time ago, maybe in 2016 with the publishing of National Review’s Against Trump issue and no amount of recent history of facts or reason will persuade NeverTrumpers to give the president – their president – the benefit of the doubt.

Hate is a difficult emotion to erase. Not even reality can seep in.

Its easy to write it all of as hate.  It was reported by Mulvaney that Trump was going to cave.  To reduce the amount asked between 5.6 billion and 1.6.  He said it on video.  So Trumps administration needs to get their information straight if they don't want the public to repeat what comes from them.

[libertybele]

The only thing that worries me about a long term government shutdown is my Tax Refund being delayed. A refund I normally get in mid February and was going to pay off the balance owing on a home improvement project scheduled for the same time. Feel a bit like Clark W. Griswold who can't pay for the pool.

Wow...I envy anyone who will be getting a refund...delayed or not.

[libertybele]

Its easy to write it all of as hate.  It was reported by Mulvaney that Trump was going to cave.  To reduce the amount asked between 5.6 billion and 1.6.  He said it on video.  So Trumps administration needs to get their information straight if they don't want the public to repeat what comes from them.

The past bill from the House is no longer relevant.  Nancy has commented that there will be no money for the wall, so it doesn't seem that we have to worry about Trump caving on dollar amount.

IMHO, best thing that we can do ... is call our Congressmen every day and DEMAND a wall. 

[edpc]

Good because you aren't very good at it.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll472.xml

The House bill added the Wall Funding and it was passed. The Democrats in the Senate would not allow a floor vote on the Bill so the government was shut down.

Your Rollcall article was from January 2018

Well, when you follow the link, the date in the upper left is current and the CR date was coincidentally the same at Feb 8th. That aside, the CR that was passed by the Senate to fund the govt through Feb 8, 2019 had already gone through channels and received approval. That’s the entire reason it was brought to the floor, then passed. They had received assurances the CR would go through and get signed, so Senators voted and went home. After word got out, Trump backtracked from outside pressure and said he wouldn’t sign the bill. He owns it.


Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn has just emerged from a lunch on Capitol Hill with Vice President Mike Pence and told CNN that President Trump will sign the clean Continuing Resolution to keep the government funded through Feb. 8.

“He will sign a clean CR,” Cornyn told CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/government-shutdown-december-2018/h_c12aab5264720c389f23117dd8e629c0


When the Senate passed the measure, the proposal had the backing of congressional Democratic leaders and top congressional Republicans had indicated they were optimistic the President would sign it.

But the plan was upended a day later when it came time for the House to take up the legislation. After facing criticism from conservative allies who wanted to see him push for border wall funding, the President abruptly informed House GOP leaders that he would not sign the bill because it did not match up with his demands for the wall.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mcconnell-notably-absent-as-trump-talks-shutdown-fight-after-meeting-with-hill-leaders/ar-BBROuqv?li=AA5a8k

[Chosen Daughter]

The past bill from the House is no longer relevant.  Nancy has commented that there will be no money for the wall, so it doesn't seem that we have to worry about Trump caving on dollar amount.

IMHO, best thing that we can do ... is call our Congressmen every day and DEMAND a wall.

I live in Washington.

[edpc]

IMHO, best thing that we can do ... is call our Congressmen every day and DEMAND a wall.

Maybe, but the wall doesn’t seem to be a huge priority for Congress or voters. You didn’t see anything done in the House, until after many representatives were effectively fired in the midterms. Leading up to the election, the caravans and border security were made front and center issues. Control of the House was still lost. Two of the border states are blue and AZ is pretty much purple, after Sinema was elected. Cruz even sweated this election a little.

[Chosen Daughter]

Maybe, but the wall doesn’t seem to be a huge priority for Congress or voters. You didn’t see anything done in the House, until after many representatives were effectively fired in the midterms. Leading up to the election, the caravans and border security were made front and center issues. Control of the House was still lost. Two of the border states are blue and AZ is pretty much purple, after Sinema was elected. Cruz even sweated this election a little.

Border state government are full of pro immigration politicians.  I honestly don't care what they think.

[Chosen Daughter]

I'm not a bureaucrat...and I'm not getting paid. So knock down that straw man right now.

I want Trump to keep this thing shut down until the Dems cave. Period. But make no mistake, most of those "not getting paid" are not bureaucrats. They are Border Patrol Officers, ICE officers, Marshals and blue collar screeners working at airports....so lets not pretend they are faceless bureaucrats living fat off the public dime. Heck, 95% of government bureaucrats are getting paid on time while the guys busting our butts on the ground are getting hosed. But as we 've seen, most of the on the ground guys want a wall...and want the President to keep fighting for it.

And those posting the smug little "they should have saved" comments are clueless and have no heart. A lot of the people not getting paid...but who still must work every day...are making crap pay and have no means of saving for multi-month shutdowns. I'm lucky in that I'm older and have savings to rely on, hell, I can go 6 months if I have to without blinking. But a 22 year old with 2 kids supporting his family on $32,000 a year living in Los Angeles or New York....is hurting already...in another month they will not be able to put food on the table. So a little sympathy for those in that position would look good on you.

All that said, this is on the Dems. Trump is doing the right thing and in the end that will prevail...I just don't like the arrogance I'm seeing here regarding the suffering people are facing in this situation.

Thank you for the post.  I have said in previous posts that I do sympathize with people going without pay.  But the bigger picture is the entire United States and keeping it safe.  I do hope that there is financial aid for those being impacted.  My hope is that the Democrats realize the damage they are doing and fund the wall.

[edpc]

Border state government are full of pro immigration politicians.  I honestly don't care what they think.

Of course you do, because they are part of the problem. If you didn’t care what those of opposing and detrimental view points thought, you would not be commenting on a thread about what a Muslim congressman from Detroit said about Trump.

[Chosen Daughter]

Of course you do, because they are part of the problem. If you didn’t care what those of opposing and detrimental view points thought, you would not be commenting on a thread about what a Muslim congressman from Detroit said about Trump.

You are right.  I don't want to but have to.  Cruz having to sweat is of great concern.  Trump should not have worked a divided party campaign this last election.  We need to have a party of "we the people" dedicated to fighting liberal communism.

It is hard for Trump to talk about swamp dwelling since most of his own issues were a result of his liberal friends and hires.

[edpc]

It is hard for Trump to talk about swamp dwelling since most of his own issues were a result of his liberal friends and hires.

The acting CoS, Mulvaney, has experience in Congress and is in a good position to provide advice on political reality. We'll see how long he lasts and if his counsel is heeded.

[Mesaclone]

Thank you for the post.  I have said in previous posts that I do sympathize with people going without pay.  But the bigger picture is the entire United States and keeping it safe.  I do hope that there is financial aid for those being impacted.  My hope is that the Democrats realize the damage they are doing and fund the wall.

There really is no safety net for these folks...there's a lot I can do to help the guys who work for me...K9 Handlers take care of our own...but the average Joe working a checkpoint is going to be desperate by mid to late January.

As I've said, the Dems are causing this and as far as I'm concerned, only the Dems can fix this by giving Trump his wall funding. There is no other solution. And thank God for Trump...either of the Bush's (our last 2 GOP Presidents) would have folded like a cheap suit by this point. Virtually all of the other GOP 2016 candidates would have folded as well with perhaps the exception of Cruz...and he could never have won the general election. Trump will fight on like a bull on fire...THAT is why we elected the man, and he understands this. He cannot fold without caving his presidency, so he won't. The Dems can live to fight another day...so they will...eventually.

[DCPatriot]

As I've said, the Dems are causing this and as far as I'm concerned, only the Dems can fix this by giving Trump his wall funding. There is no other solution. And thank God for Trump...either of the Bush's (our last 2 GOP Presidents) would have folded like a cheap suit by this point. Virtually all of the other GOP 2016 candidates would have folded as well with perhaps the exception of Cruz...and he could never have won the general election. Trump will fight on like a bull on fire...THAT is why we elected the man, and he understands this. He cannot fold without caving his presidency, so he won't. The Dems can live to fight another day...so they will...eventually.

I couldn't agree with you, more, @Mesaclone 

[ABX]

Realistically he won't. One of two things will happen. One side will give in rather quickly, probably within a week. Or, Congress will pass a CR as is, no funding, send it to the president to veto. It will then go back to Congress and they'll vote to over ride his veto. This will probably be over within a week or two tops.