Author Topic: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation  (Read 2246 times)

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Offline libertybele

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How Donald Trump handles this WILL define his Presidency.  He has the pen.  He does NOT have to let anyone into this country.

If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation

"........A single district judge thinks he can violate all rules of standing, 130 years of Supreme Court precedent on sovereignty up to and including Trump v. Hawaii, and shut down any effort to secure our border, including the administration’s half-baked plan on bogus asylum.

Despite spending $892 billion on the military and defense, we refuse to assert our rights over our own border because the ACLU and judges evidently control our borders. We continue to allow lawfare to incentivize and actually allow the entirety of Central America to cross our border, along with drugs, gangs, violence, poverty, and possibly diseases.

In every media interview I’ve given, when asked about the future of the caravan, I emphatically said that there was no way Trump would allow any of them to submit “asylum” claims, because if he couldn’t stop such a brazen invasion, it would be the end of his presidency. Nonetheless, I expressed concern that we’d still ignore the dangerous invasion of roughly 1,000-2,000 coming over every day independently smuggled in by coyotes.

Now it appears I was too charitable. We are not even categorically blocking the caravan, and that was before last night’s illegal, lawless injunction from an Obama judge in San Francisco. It appears that the people in the caravan are being allowed to submit claims, 100 a day. I guess slow-motion catch-and-release is better than a mass rush, but why should we be “managing” an invasion rather than repelling it, as required by the Constitution’s Guarantee Clause, Article IV, Section 4? Slow-motion admission is not what Trump promised before the election:

    To those in the Caravan, turnaround, we are not letting people into the United States illegally. Go back to your Country and if you want, apply for citizenship like millions of others are doing!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 25, 2018

If we can’t stop a belligerent group of economic migrants carrying flags of their “persecutors” and will instead indulge them as questionable asylees, we no longer have a sovereign nation. Mexicans in Tijuana are now vigorously protesting the caravan’s illegal occupation of their own country. The migrants are reportedly smoking weed and throwing garbage in their neighborhoods, after rejecting Mexico’s own offer of asylum, which in itself is a violation of international asylum law...........

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/if-we-cant-stop-this-invasion-we-no-longer-have-a-sovereign-nation/
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Emjay

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How Donald Trump handles this WILL define his Presidency.  He has the pen.  He does NOT have to let anyone into this country.

Tell that to the Obama-appointed judge who ruled against Trump.

One of the best things Trump is doing is slowly but surely reforming the judiciary.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline aligncare

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Contrary to fake media narratives, President Trump is not a dictator and is doing his level best to accomplish a conservative agenda within a constitutional framework. Unfortunately, he’s being hampered at the same time by Obama judges, a hostile press, house democrats out for blood and tepid support from his own party, not to mention being undermined by top federal and state law enforcement officials.

That he’s accomplished anything at all substantial is a tribute to his presidential gravitas.

Offline libertybele

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Contrary to fake media narratives, President Trump is not a dictator and is doing his level best to accomplish a conservative agenda within a constitutional framework. Unfortunately, he’s being hampered at the same time by Obama judges, a hostile press, house democrats out for blood and tepid support from his own party, not to mention being undermined by top federal and state law enforcement officials.

That he’s accomplished anything at all substantial is a tribute to his presidential gravitas.

I get that and I understand the Bammy judges.  BUT ... the constitution gives him FULL authority to protect this country and he DOES NOT have to let anyone into this country...this is what he needs to completely understand.  Let the issue go to SCOTUS and quickly!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Emjay

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I get that and I understand the Bammy judges.  BUT ... the constitution gives him FULL authority to protect this country and he DOES NOT have to let anyone into this country...this is what he needs to completely understand.  Let the issue go to SCOTUS and quickly!

I think this issue will eventually go to the Supreme Court, but nothing is done quickly in the government.  Just be grateful we have a President who will not back down on this issue.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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U.S. Constitution
Article 4 Section 4

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence."

Article 4, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution is commonly called the Guarantee Clause. It reads, “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.” This clause guarantees that the federal government will assure and provide these three protections to all State governments:

1. Republican Form of Government;
 2. Protection Against Invasion; and
 3. Protection of Legislatures and Executive from domestic Violence.



The first assurance is more complicated because the term “Republican Form of Government” is not defined in the Constitution and was not widely written on during the Ratification Debates. However, they did establish seven basic principles necessary to constitute a Republican form of government:

1. There is a strict separation of powers, horizontally and vertically.
 2. The government is run by officers governing for a term and only during good behavior.
 3. Offices are selected by our election, and not by the appointment of the government itself.
 4. The government recognizes that power resides originally in the People (immediately from God).
 5. There is a deliberativeness in action and that it is, by the checks and balances, not subject to the whimsical fancy of a few.
 6. The government acknowledges the final right of the People to alter or abolish it whenever it usurps the rights for which it was instituted by the People to administer God’s Law.

7. The government does not grant entitlements.

 

These principles must be maintained so that the form of government does not “wander” into another type of government – like monarchy, dictatorship, oligarchy, democracy or worse, totalitarian. For a detailed analysis of what the Guarantee Clause means regarding Republican Form of Government, please read the article “What is a Republic Anyway?” by Scott Whiteman, Esq. which is included below.

Protection against invasion was a continuation of an established centralized foreign policy and defense under the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union. The Framers understood that protection of the borders was essential to both the security of the people and the viability of the economy. The clause assures that a president cannot refuse to defend certain parts of the nation from foreign attack. Sadly today, this understanding has been lost on our national government officials who want to “sell out” the citizens by granting “amnesty” to those who illegally enter the States of the union.

The final assurance is protection of legislatures and the executive from domestic Violence which again is a vague term used without being properly defined in the document. It has commonly accepted that this protection is against local uprisings or insurrections. However, as noted in the essay by Mr. Whiteman, most State Constitutions include articles in the Declaration of Rights which reserve to the people the right to establish a new government whenever the government oppresses the people. The Maryland Declaration of Rights in Article 6 states, “That all persons invested with the Legislative or Executive powers of Government are the Trustees of the Public, and, as such, accountable for their conduct: Wherefore, whenever the ends of Government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the People may, and of right ought, to reform the old, or establish a new Government; the doctrine of non-resistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.”

https://www.theamericanview.com/q-what-does-article-iv-section-4-really-mean/
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 02:59:37 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

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Offline libertybele

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I think this issue will eventually go to the Supreme Court, but nothing is done quickly in the government.  Just be grateful we have a President who will not back down on this issue.

The point being Trump has full authority to protect this country and stop this invasion.  He doesn't need to wait for anyone's permission.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline jpsb

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Tell that to the Obama-appointed judge who ruled against Trump.

One of the best things Trump is doing is slowly but surely reforming the judiciary.

 :thumbsup:

Offline mrclose

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District courts have begun imposing universal injunctions without considering their authority to grant such sweeping relief.
 (Justice Clarence Thomas)


If district courts have any authority to issue universal injunctions, that authority must come from a statute or the Constitution.
 (Missouri v. Jenkins, 515 U. S. 70)

No statute expressly grants district courts the power to issue universal injunctions.
 (Thomas, J., concurring)(1995)

« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 02:09:18 am by mrclose »
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2018, 03:27:29 am »
:thumbsup:

The judge is out of order.  Trump has Constitutional authority to protect the states from invasion.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2018, 11:40:14 am »
:bigsilly:
Trump says he's building the wall 10ft higher now smarty-pant! ****slapping

Offline Emjay

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2018, 06:26:32 pm »
The point being Trump has full authority to protect this country and stop this invasion.  He doesn't need to wait for anyone's permission.

If only you were right.  Every ruling he makes seems to be subject to judicial challenge.

In this particular instance, I would not mind if Trump had total authority but he does not.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2018, 07:48:57 pm »
If only you were right.  Every ruling he makes seems to be subject to judicial challenge.

In this particular instance, I would not mind if Trump had total authority but he does not.

Incorrect.  The Constitution gives him the authority and its time he uses it.  These are rogue judges trying to impose unconstitutional law.  All Trump has to do is effectively define caravans as an invasion.  I don't know how anyone could argue thousands traveling together in an effort to cross the border illegally could not be defined that way.  In fact the entire government is bound by the Constitution to protect from invasion.  This isn't about liberal California.  This is about thousands of illegals, many criminals coming into our country.  It doesn't matter if it is via California.  These illegal immigrants will disperse throughout the country.

So, does the President have the ability to uphold the Constitution?

Article 4 section 4

Couldn't be clearer.  Against invasion and domestic violence. 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 07:51:24 pm by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Oceander

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2018, 08:09:32 pm »
Incorrect.  The Constitution gives him the authority and its time he uses it.  These are rogue judges trying to impose unconstitutional law.  All Trump has to do is effectively define caravans as an invasion.  I don't know how anyone could argue thousands traveling together in an effort to cross the border illegally could not be defined that way.  In fact the entire government is bound by the Constitution to protect from invasion.  This isn't about liberal California.  This is about thousands of illegals, many criminals coming into our country.  It doesn't matter if it is via California.  These illegal immigrants will disperse throughout the country.

So, does the President have the ability to uphold the Constitution?

Article 4 section 4

Couldn't be clearer.  Against invasion and domestic violence. 

The president does not have unfettered discretion to define the term “invasion” to suit his every fantasy.  A ragtag group of civilians does not constitute an invasion.

Offline Emjay

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2018, 09:35:34 pm »
The president does not have unfettered discretion to define the term “invasion” to suit his every fantasy.  A ragtag group of civilians does not constitute an invasion.

This is not a ragtag group of civilians.  This is a well-organized, well-funded group of mostly young men with many criminals among the group. 

On the other hand, we should be leery of giving absolute power to any president because we won't always have a good man like Trump at the helm.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Oceander

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2018, 09:45:13 pm »
This is not a ragtag group of civilians.  This is a well-organized, well-funded group of mostly young men with many criminals among the group. 

On the other hand, we should be leery of giving absolute power to any president because we won't always have a good man like Trump at the helm.

This is still a group of civilians. They are not an army or an invading force, and if they succeed in getting into the country illegally, it will not be an “invasion” within the meaning of the Constitution. 

Offline Emjay

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2018, 10:10:07 pm »
This is still a group of civilians. They are not an army or an invading force, and if they succeed in getting into the country illegally, it will not be an “invasion” within the meaning of the Constitution.

It is an invading force.  A somewhat ragtag invading force but they are attempting to enter our country illegally and they must be stopped.

You are a rare Briefer who thinks we should passively let these people in.  If we do, we are a country without borders and that is not a country.  You could call this a 'trial run' and if it succeeds, it will be a bad thing.

They have been duly warned and they will be stopped by any means necessary.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Axeslinger

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2018, 10:29:32 pm »
The president does not have unfettered discretion to define the term “invasion” to suit his every fantasy.  A ragtag group of civilians does not constitute an invasion.
@Oceander
So you’re saying none of these apply?

in·va·sion
/inˈvāZHən/
noun
1:  an instance of invading a country or region with an armed force.
"the Allied invasion of Normandy"
synonyms:   occupation, capture, seizure, annexation, annexing, takeover

2: an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.
"stadium guards are preparing for another invasion of fans"
synonyms:   influx, inundation, flood, rush, torrent, deluge, avalanche, juggernaut
"an invasion of tourists"

3: an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain.
"random drug testing of employees is an unwarranted invasion of privacy"
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson

Oceander

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2018, 10:35:36 pm »
@Oceander
So you’re saying none of these apply?

in·va·sion
/inˈvāZHən/
noun
1:  an instance of invading a country or region with an armed force.
"the Allied invasion of Normandy"
synonyms:   occupation, capture, seizure, annexation, annexing, takeover

2: an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.
"stadium guards are preparing for another invasion of fans"
synonyms:   influx, inundation, flood, rush, torrent, deluge, avalanche, juggernaut
"an invasion of tourists"

3: an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain.
"random drug testing of employees is an unwarranted invasion of privacy"

No.  It’s a term of art.  A single individual illegally entering is not an invasion, and neither is a motley group of civilians entering illegally. 


Oceander

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2018, 10:38:08 pm »
It is an invading force.  A somewhat ragtag invading force but they are attempting to enter our country illegally and they must be stopped.

You are a rare Briefer who thinks we should passively let these people in.  If we do, we are a country without borders and that is not a country.  You could call this a 'trial run' and if it succeeds, it will be a bad thing.

They have been duly warned and they will be stopped by any means necessary.

No, it’s not an invading force.  It is neither an army from another sovereign nor a militia with quasi-sovereign status.  It’s a motley crew of civilians.

Get over it. 

And no, I’ve never said we should just passively let this group in, or any other group.  That statement merely exposes you as a liar. 

« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 10:40:27 pm by Oceander »

Offline Wingnut

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2018, 10:52:20 pm »
The president does not have unfettered discretion to define the term “invasion” to suit his every fantasy.  A ragtag group of civilians does not constitute an invasion.

I say we shoot every single one of these third World sacks of shit till the border runs red with their blood.
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Offline berdie

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2018, 12:52:35 am »
No, it’s not an invading force.  It is neither an army from another sovereign nor a militia with quasi-sovereign status.  It’s a motley crew of civilians.

Get over it. 

And no, I’ve never said we should just passively let this group in, or any other group.  That statement merely exposes you as a liar.



If a pretty large group of people, carrying the flag of their home country, march toward our border saying they WILL be let in...it's an invasion. Motley crew or not.

Offline Axeslinger

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2018, 12:56:26 am »
No.  It’s a term of art.  A single individual illegally entering is not an invasion, and neither is a motley group of civilians entering illegally.

@Oceander

Ok...so now that you’ve ably shown that you didn’t bother to read my post, I’ll try to make this easier on you :

How is this: “a motley group of civilians entering illegally“

Different than this: “an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity” WHICH IS LITERALLY THE DEFINITION.

Hint..:if you don’t just suck it up and admit that you’re wrong on this one, you’re just showing your hind end.  I get it...I’m no fan of trump either, but he’s right here and all you’re doing is showing a severe lack of intellectual honesty.
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline mrclose

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Re: If we can’t stop this invasion, we no longer have a sovereign nation
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2018, 02:21:23 am »
No, it’s not an invading force.  It is neither an army from another sovereign nor a militia with quasi-sovereign status.  It’s a motley crew of civilians.

Get over it. 

And no, I’ve never said we should just passively let this group in, or any other group.  That statement merely exposes you as a liar.
@Oceander

You see the word invading force or army anywhere in here?
Quote
“Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.”

8 U.S.C. §1182(f) of United States Code
« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 02:22:16 am by mrclose »
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