‘Never Trumpers’ unite to back Trump’s battle for Kavanaugh

[XenaLee]

This is the salient point. This fight is not Trump vs the Left....that is just one battle in the war.

The "War" is the Left vs every tradition we have of jurisprudence...to include the very basic tenets of presumption of innocence and the concept of due process...republican governance, fairness, and belief in American exceptionalism. While NT's may never approve of our current General in our current battle, let's hope they have the wisdom to perceive the wider war and to fight in that larger cause against the Left. It seems to me that this Kavanaugh ugliness has opened their eyes to the true danger of radical Leftism seizing power in this country...whether Trump sits in the White House or any other Republican.

I don't like rubbing their (NT's) noses in what I perceive as the error of mis-characterizing the President...I think many of them already see their mistake but pride holds them to their position...others will never be able to reconcile their gut level dislike of the President's style and mannerisms. That's just the way it is and that's OK as long as these folks can see who their REAL enemy is. So, its better I believe, to give them (NT's) credit for engaging in the broader culture war and for joining the rest of us in pushing back the Leftist nightmare that is now grasping for power. If they can do that while disliking the President than at least we can work together in situations such as this current nomination fight.

Very wise viewpoint, IMO.

 

[Right_in_Virginia]

I don't like rubbing their (NT's) noses in what I perceive as the error of mis-characterizing the President...I think many of them already see their mistake but pride holds them to their position...others will never be able to reconcile their gut level dislike of the President's style and mannerisms.

That's just the way it is and that's OK as long as these folks can see who their REAL enemy is. So, its better I believe, to give them (NT's) credit for engaging in the broader culture war and for joining the rest of us in pushing back the Leftist nightmare that is now grasping for power. If they can do that while disliking the President than at least we can work together in situations such as this current nomination fight.   

Well said. 

[Bigun]

This is the salient point. This fight is not Trump vs the Left....that is just one battle in the war.

The "War" is the Left vs every tradition we have of jurisprudence...to include the very basic tenets of presumption of innocence and the concept of due process...republican governance, fairness, and belief in American exceptionalism. While NT's may never approve of our current General in our current battle, let's hope they have the wisdom to perceive the wider war and to fight in that larger cause against the Left. It seems to me that this Kavanaugh ugliness has opened their eyes to the true danger of radical Leftism seizing power in this country...whether Trump sits in the White House or any other Republican.

I don't like rubbing their (NT's) noses in what I perceive as the error of mis-characterizing the President...I think many of them already see their mistake but pride holds them to their position...others will never be able to reconcile their gut level dislike of the President's style and mannerisms. That's just the way it is and that's OK as long as these folks can see who their REAL enemy is. So, its better I believe, to give them (NT's) credit for engaging in the broader culture war and for joining the rest of us in pushing back the Leftist nightmare that is now grasping for power. If they can do that while disliking the President than at least we can work together in situations such as this current nomination fight.

 

VERY well said @Mesaclone!  Hopefully, you can convince some others here that this is the path to follow.

[DCPatriot]

Well said.

....cept the part where he says he "... won't rub their noses in it".


 

[Mesaclone]

VERY well said @Mesaclone!  Hopefully, you can convince some others here that this is the path to follow.

All too often...as Republicans/Conservatives...we are like the Jin and the Song fighting each other to the death as Gehghis Khan and the Mongol Hordes sweep through China (Yes, I'm in the middle of a great book about Genghis!).

I'll never understand how the infight takes priority over the approaching Horde...its pure idiocy...yet, historically it happens again and again in both politics and warfare.

[Bigun]

All too often...as Republicans/Conservatives...we are like the Jin and the Song fighting each other to the death as Gehghis Khan and the Mongol Hordes sweep through China (Yes, I'm in the middle of a great book about Genghis!).

I'll never understand how the infight takes priority over the approaching Horde...its pure idiocy...yet, historically it happens again and again in both politics and warfare.

Also very true!  I have said MANY times previously that we all mostly want to go to the same place but never get anywhere because we spend all of our time arguing about which car we should ride in.

[Chosen Daughter]

Iam moderately optimistic, about the GOP.

It took Trump, to give them the chance.

But whenever I see the names Flake, Sasse, I think of certain diehard NTers here.

Really?  Ben Sasse was a Kavanaugh supporter from the start and stuck with him through this ugly character assassination by the left.

Another post for the trash can.

[Sanguine]

All too often...as Republicans/Conservatives...we are like the Jin and the Song fighting each other to the death as Gehghis Khan and the Mongol Hordes sweep through China (Yes, I'm in the middle of a great book about Genghis!).

I'll never understand how the infight takes priority over the approaching Horde...its pure idiocy...yet, historically it happens again and again in both politics and warfare.

Well, the world is officially upside down.  The ACLU and the left is fighting to convict a guy based on no evidence, Republican senators are with one exception, acting with honor and dignity, and Mesaclone is making the most sense of all of us on this thread.  Very well said, @Mesaclone.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

....cept the part where he says he "... won't rub their noses in it".


 

Actually, that's the most important @Mesaclone wrote in his excellent post.  It frankly is ridiculous and juvenile how some people insist on doing the "I was right and you were wrong" dance, regardless of whether the issue is Trump or something else.  Very often, that is the match that lights off the explosion around here.  It not only destroys good discussion, but it divides people and causes them to dig in their heels.  It actually works against the political interests of the very people doing that juvenile dance.

No decent-sized group of people is every going to agree on everything.  The rational person will put aside grudges to unite temporary on those issues where there is agreement.  The irrational, petty person decides to hold opinions on other issues against people, and will refuse to work together even on those issues where there is agreement.  Those doing the "I was right and you were wrong dance" are just doing a different variant of that; deliberately pissing off people who are trying to come together on a particular issue.

[XenaLee]

Actually, that's the most important @Mesaclone wrote in his excellent post.  It frankly is ridiculous and juvenile how some people insist on doing the "I was right and you were wrong" dance, regardless of whether the issue is Trump or something else.  Very often, that is the match that lights off the explosion around here.  It not only destroys good discussion, but it divides people and causes them to dig in their heels.  It actually works against the political interests of the very people doing that juvenile dance.

No decent-sized group of people is every going to agree on everything.  The rational person will put aside grudges to unite temporary on those issues where there is agreement.  The irrational, petty person decides to hold opinions on other issues against people, and will refuse to work together even on those issues where there is agreement.  Those doing the "I was right and you were wrong dance" are just doing a different variant of that; deliberately pissing off people who are trying to come together on a particular issue.

 

The logic apparently escapes certain members here. 

[Night Hides Not]

“Trump is so flawed as a leader, a politician and as a  human being...”

In two years Trump has accomplished more for conservatives and constitutionists than all the recent republican politicians put together.

Before you pass judgment on President Trump... read a newspaper why don’t you. Your ignorance is a glaring embarrassment. @montanajoe

Before you chastise someone for being ignorant @aligncare , I suggest you check your posts for spelling and grammatical errors..."constitutionists" s/b "constitutionalists". 


I find most of your posts tedious, but feel free to keep chastising us Never Trumpers. Seems like every time I start leaning toward getting on the Trump Train, I can count on you, or several other like minded Orange Brigadiers, to shake me back to my senses.   

[Night Hides Not]

The logic apparently escapes certain members here.

@XenaLee , the hell with logic!!!   

[Bigun]

Actually, that's the most important @Mesaclone wrote in his excellent post.  It frankly is ridiculous and juvenile how some people insist on doing the "I was right and you were wrong" dance, regardless of whether the issue is Trump or something else.  Very often, that is the match that lights off the explosion around here.  It not only destroys good discussion, but it divides people and causes them to dig in their heels.  It actually works against the political interests of the very people doing that juvenile dance.

No decent-sized group of people is every going to agree on everything.  The rational person will put aside grudges to unite temporary on those issues where there is agreement.  The irrational, petty person decides to hold opinions on other issues against people, and will refuse to work together even on those issues where there is agreement.  Those doing the "I was right and you were wrong dance" are just doing a different variant of that; deliberately pissing off people who are trying to come together on a particular issue.

   and  again!

[Bigun]

The logic apparently escapes certain members here.

How very true that is @XenaLee!  It's really sad!

[XenaLee]

@XenaLee , the hell with logic!!!   

Yeah... that does seem to be their motto.   

[goodwithagun]

Actually, that's the most important @Mesaclone wrote in his excellent post.  It frankly is ridiculous and juvenile how some people insist on doing the "I was right and you were wrong" dance, regardless of whether the issue is Trump or something else.  Very often, that is the match that lights off the explosion around here.  It not only destroys good discussion, but it divides people and causes them to dig in their heels.  It actually works against the political interests of the very people doing that juvenile dance.

No decent-sized group of people is every going to agree on everything.  The rational person will put aside grudges to unite temporary on those issues where there is agreement.  The irrational, petty person decides to hold opinions on other issues against people, and will refuse to work together even on those issues where there is agreement.  Those doing the "I was right and you were wrong dance" are just doing a different variant of that; deliberately pissing off people who are trying to come together on a particular issue.

Additionally, the ATs constant demand for compliance will result in a #walkaway movement on the right, just like the SCOTUS drama has caused on the left.

[XenaLee]

Before you chastise someone for being ignorant @aligncare , I suggest you check your posts for spelling and grammatical errors..."constitutionists" s/b "constitutionalists". 


I find most of your posts tedious, but feel free to keep chastising us Never Trumpers. Seems like every time I start leaning toward getting on the Trump Train, I can count on you, or several other like minded Orange Brigadiers, to shake me back to my senses.   

It's uncanny how that works.   When things are going great (like right now)... is when they are at their frothiest (sp?) worst....lol.

[aligncare]

@Maj. Bill Martin
This is the salient point. This fight is not Trump vs the Left....that is just one battle in the war.

The "War" is the Left vs every tradition we have of jurisprudence...to include the very basic tenets of presumption of innocence and the concept of due process...republican governance, fairness, and belief in American exceptionalism. While NT's may never approve of our current General in our current battle, let's hope they have the wisdom to perceive the wider war and to fight in that larger cause against the Left. It seems to me that this Kavanaugh ugliness has opened their eyes to the true danger of radical Leftism seizing power in this country...whether Trump sits in the White House or any other Republican.

I don't like rubbing their (NT's) noses in what I perceive as the error of mis-characterizing the President...I think many of them already see their mistake but pride holds them to their position...others will never be able to reconcile their gut level dislike of the President's style and mannerisms. That's just the way it is and that's OK as long as these folks can see who their REAL enemy is. So, its better I believe, to give them (NT's) credit for engaging in the broader culture war and for joining the rest of us in pushing back the Leftist nightmare that is now grasping for power. If they can do that while disliking the President than at least we can work together in situations such as this current nomination fight.

In principle, you’re right. But it’s such a downer around here, they’re constantly harshing my buzz, you know what I mean?

The country elected a man finally who takes no guff from democrats/media/the Left and some bone heads around here join the Left in their assault on Donald Trump’s character and presidency... When the Right agrees with the Left – it’s time for them to think things through. Someone could accuse them of sympathizing with the Left.

Great things are happening in America only because a businessman from Queens, a citizen politician decided to get involved. As for me, I’ve had enough of these nevers and I won’t hold my fire any more.

[INVAR]

The "War" is the Left vs every tradition we have of jurisprudence...to include the very basic tenets of presumption of innocence and the concept of due process...republican governance, fairness, and belief in American exceptionalism. While NT's may never approve of our current General in our current battle, let's hope they have the wisdom to perceive the wider war and to fight in that larger cause against the Left.

Nope. 

I’m content and happy just sitting back and watching the Trumplicans slug it out politically with the Left, the Democrats, and their agenda that they pretend to oppose.  They do not want liberty - they want payback and blood.  They want retribution in-kind. They want to rub everyones face in the dirt that is not goose-stepping in lockstep to Trump.  They want freedom to do what they want and have as they please with free money that both entities applaud their monarchs print to spend out of thin air.

I’ve washed my hands of the whole sick cultish mess and I have no interest in aligning myself with whichever debt-spending/cultural hedonist/ Statist/Collectivist/Populist mob is going to triumph over the other.  I am their common enemy and both of them have made that fact crystal clear.

So I’m just reading the putrid miasma, laughing about it all and taking notes.  I’m done getting worked up about it.   Let them have their rallies, ‘wins’ and coming street violence.  Let them have their war. The witness and warnings were given and ignored.  I am resolved and content to watch them eat the bitter and rotten fruit of the consequences they worked so hard to achieve.

I no longer care if they burn it all down or when that sword of Damocles they keep ignoring takes them out and most of the country with it.  Maybe amidst the ashes and bewilderment they might consider and repent of what they eschewed with vitriol and disgust.  But I highly doubt it.  The hearts have hardened and when this spoiled people suffer what they have sown, they will harden yet further and seek to rip flesh with their teeth from those they hate and blame.

The last few months demonstrated the fact that a good chunk of them hate the principles and positions I align with, more than they hate the Democrat Leftists.

So be it.

In the long-term, it doesn’t matter.

I’m fighting a completely and totally different war than they are anyway… the war that actually matters in the long-term.

[XenaLee]

Nope. 

I’m content and happy just sitting back and watching the Trumplicans slug it out politically with the Left, the Democrats, and their agenda that they pretend to oppose.  They do not want liberty - they want payback and blood.  They want retribution in-kind. They want to rub everyones face in the dirt that is not goose-stepping in lockstep to Trump.  They want freedom to do what they want and have as they please with free money that both entities applaud their monarchs print to spend out of thin air.

I’ve washed my hands of the whole sick cultish mess and I have no interest in aligning myself with whichever debt-spending/cultural hedonist/ Statist/Collectivist/Populist mob is going to triumph over the other.  I am their common enemy and both of them have made that fact crystal clear.

So I’m just reading the putrid miasma, laughing about it all and taking notes.  I’m done getting worked up about it.   Let them have their rallies, ‘wins’ and coming street violence.  Let them have their war. The witness and warnings were given and ignored.  I am resolved and content to watch them eat the bitter and rotten fruit of the consequences they worked so hard to achieve.

I no longer care if they burn it all down or when that sword of Damocles they keep ignoring takes them out and most of the country with it.  Maybe amidst the ashes and bewilderment they might consider and repent of what they eschewed with vitriol and disgust.  But I highly doubt it.  The hearts have hardened and when this spoiled people suffer what they have sown, they will harden yet further and seek to rip flesh with their teeth from those they hate and blame.

The last few months demonstrated the fact that a good chunk of them hate the principles and positions I align with, more than they hate the Democrat Leftists.

So be it.

In the long-term, it doesn’t matter.

I’m fighting a completely and totally different war than they are anyway… the war that actually matters in the long-term.

Please don't judge all Trump supporters/voters by a few malcontents that post here on a political debate forum.  You do the majority of level-headed, non-emotional folks that support Trump against the radical left a huge disservice by lumping them in with the usual suspects here, IMO.  They do NOT represent the majority of said supporters ....and in the long run, what they think here, say here or want matters not.  Not to me, and not to any logical, thinking, intelligent person.  JS.....

[Right_in_Virginia]

Additionally, the ATs constant demand for compliance will result in a #walkaway movement on the right

No one is demanding compliance @goodwithagun  This is just sloppy thinking.

And please stop threatening to do something you've already done--- it's silly.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I’m fighting a completely and totally different war… .

Of course you are.     

[Axeslinger]

No one is demanding compliance @goodwithagun  This is just sloppy thinking.

And please stop threatening to do something you've already done--- it's silly.

@Right_in_Virginia
That’s just bullshit and you know it.   Over the last 20 months there are  innumerable examples of us being told that we are not compliant enough.  Sorry, but that dog won’t hunt.   Hell that dog won’t even get out of the kennel.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Please don't judge all Trump supporters/voters by a few malcontents that post here on a political debate forum.  You do the majority of level-headed, non-emotional folks that support Trump against the radical left a huge disservice by lumping them in with the usual suspects here, IMO.  They do NOT represent the majority of said supporters ....and in the long run, what they think here, say here or want matters not.  Not to me, and not to any logical, thinking, intelligent person.  JS.....

You can't martyr yourself unless you claim persecution.

[Axeslinger]

In principle, you’re right. But it’s such a downer around here, they’re constantly harshing my buzz, you know what I mean?

The country elected a man finally who takes no guff from democrats/media/the Left and some bone heads around here join the Left in their assault on Donald Trump’s character and presidency... When the Right agrees with the Left – it’s time for them to think things through. Someone could accuse them of sympathizing with the Left.

Great things are happening in America only because a businessman from Queens, a citizen politician decided to get involved. As for me, I’ve had enough of these nevers and I won’t hold my fire any more.

@aligncare
Thank you for beautifully illustrating, especially in replying to THAT particular post by @Maj. Bill Martin that in your mind it really IS all about you.  Couldn’t have said it better myself.