Nailed by Steel Tariffs: Trump protectionism is driving a Missouri company to the brink.

[Frank Cannon]

By making Americans pay 25% more for the same steel the rest of the world buys?

The rest of the world is a sewer. You want to join them and load up on cheap shit? Leave the effing country. I on the other hand drive right by the abandoned Bethlehem Steel headquarters going to my rentals. It's abandoned because we let a bunch of azzhole Progressives argue that buying a 39 cent toaster or $1.58 lawn mower from a brutal Communist regime was good for the world. Like hell.

[Hoodat]

The trouble for Mid Continent is that foreign producers making nails abroad use low-price steel and export their production to the U.S. They can offer better prices than their U.S. rival because, as Chris Pratt, operations general manager for the plant, explained in a Journal op-ed last month, the tariffs pushed costs up “overnight” and made the company uncompetitive.

So the solution is to increase Mid Continent's raw material cost by 25%?  Idiots!

[jmyrlefuller]

By the way, where are all those jobs that were supposed to come back to America thanks to this trade war?  I haven't seen them.  And I won't -- because those jobs are gone forever and are not coming back. 

Thank you, Barack Obama.

Now, back here in reality, have you even looked at job listings lately? Factories are hiring more than they have in years now. It's the white-collar economy that's losing ground.

[Frank Cannon]

So the solution is to increase Mid Continent's raw material cost by 25%?  Idiots!

No. Solution is for the US manufacturers to ramp up production.

[Frank Cannon]

Thank you, Barack Obama.

Now, back here in reality, have you even looked at job listings lately? Factories are hiring more than they have in years now. It's the white-collar economy that's losing ground.

It's not all shit jobs expanding. There is a CDL driver and heavy equipment operator shortage where I live. They are offering almost 6 figure salaries to get people to join up.

[Hoodat]

The rest of the world is a sewer. You want to join them and load up on cheap shit? Leave the effing country. I on the other hand drive right by the abandoned Bethlehem Steel headquarters going to my rentals. It's abandoned because we let a bunch of azzhole Progressives argue that buying a 39 cent toaster or $1.58 lawn mower from a brutal Communist regime was good for the world. Like hell.

Ah, so now you want to dictate how I spend my dollars?  How fascist of you.

To hell with Bethlehem steel.  If they can't cut it in a free market, then they don't need to be in business.  Perhaps if they were more sensitive to their customer needs, and stopped kissing union ass, then they would still be in business.  But to blame me as a consumer for their demise because I choose to gain the most utility possible for every dollar spent is complete BS.  If you want to support American Made with your dollars, then be my guest.  But that's not good enough for you.  You want me to pay 25% more for every pound of steel I buy just so you can feel good about some fat cat steel company earning profits it does not deserve, and in the process becoming even more lazy and less competitive.  Meanwhile, companies operating at the margin that use steel as their primary raw material will be closing their doors, all because Frank thought they should be forced to pay more for that raw material than their foreign competitors.

Hey, while you're at it, maybe you can get some law passed forcing Willy Messerschmitt to build fighters.  It's not like your economic model hasn't been tried before.

[bilo]

The rest of the world is a sewer. You want to join them and load up on cheap shit? Leave the effing country. I on the other hand drive right by the abandoned Bethlehem Steel headquarters going to my rentals. It's abandoned because we let a bunch of azzhole Progressives argue that buying a 39 cent toaster or $1.58 lawn mower from a brutal Communist regime was good for the world. Like hell.

I initially bought into the idea that opening up trade with China would lead China into becoming a civilized nation. The opposite has occurred. They lie, cheat, steal and subsidize key industries until they have destroyed all serious competitors. Trump deserves credit for recognizing this problem and if it takes tariffs to bring them down so be it. You know the problem is pretty serious when Mexico, a country that does not exactly love us, works out a trade deal with us that really limits the ability of China to flood our markets with goods produced by them.

[bilo]

Thank you, Barack Obama.

Now, back here in reality, have you even looked at job listings lately? Factories are hiring more than they have in years now. It's the white-collar economy that's losing ground.

The trades are so hot, I can't find people for all our construction plans.

[Hoodat]

No. Solution is for the US manufacturers to ramp up production.

Ramp up production?  You don't get it.  Mid Continental won't be buying steel from anyone if they close their doors.  So where will that production go?  Will they be burying it in holes like China is doing right now?  Good luck getting someone to pay for that.

This is simple microeconomics.  Price, supply, demand.  If you artificially raise the price, you end up with surplus.  And when you end up with surplus, you start closing down steel mills.  It ain't rocket science.  Even a fifth grader can figure that one out.

But I digress.  The real question here is motive.  Exactly what is your motive, Frank?  Do you want to isolate our economy from the rest of the world so that the American consumer is at the mercy of the American market?  You can have that, but at a very high cost.  Do you want to punish China?  Jacking up the price of US Steel will only help them.  Do you want to help the US economy?  Then stop interfering by placing artificial price floors on raw materials.

[Suppressed]

I on the other hand drive right by the abandoned Bethlehem Steel headquarters going to my rentals. It's abandoned because we let a bunch of azzhole Progressives argue that buying a 39 cent toaster or $1.58 lawn mower from a brutal Communist regime was good for the world. Like hell.

It's also in the middle of multi-year redevelopment.

You know, Beth could have upgraded to be more competitive, but the unions would have none of that.  Instead, you think we should be taxing Americans to subsidize inflated union wages of those who can't compete.  You complain about "Communists" yet you want to socialize the costs of a private industry's lack of competetiveness.

[bilo]

Ah, so now you want to dictate how I spend my dollars?  How fascist of you.

To hell with Bethlehem steel.  If they can't cut it in a free market, then they don't need to be in business.  Perhaps if they were more sensitive to their customer needs, and stopped kissing union ass, then they would still be in business.  But to blame me as a consumer for their demise because I choose to gain the most utility possible for every dollar spent is complete BS.  If you want to support American Made with your dollars, then be my guest.  But that's not good enough for you.  You want me to pay 25% more for every pound of steel I buy just so you can feel good about some fat cat steel company earning profits it does not deserve, and in the process becoming even more lazy and less competitive.  Meanwhile, companies operating at the margin that use steel as their primary raw material will be closing their doors, all because Frank thought they should be forced to pay more for that raw material than their foreign competitors.

Hey, while you're at it, maybe you can get some law passed forcing Willy Messerschmitt to build fighters.  It's not like your economic model hasn't been tried before.

The problem is it isn't a free market. The only country that is supposed to not subsidize key industries and to not have tariffs is the USA. I would agree with the argument that our companies should just compete with everyone else if no one subsidized their industries, or had tariffs. 

[DCPatriot]

No. Solution is for the US manufacturers to ramp up production.

Man oh man, though....can you imagine the risks these corporations are taking if the DEMS take back the WH in 2020.

Speaking about all the deregulation and tax incentives that brought this all about.

Don't have the heart for that anymore.

[Frank Cannon]

It's also in the middle of multi-year redevelopment.

You know, Beth could have upgraded to be more competitive, but the unions would have none of that.  Instead, you think we should be taxing Americans to subsidize inflated union wages of those who can't compete.  You complain about "Communists" yet you want to socialize the costs of a private industry's lack of competetiveness.

Right now you are subsiding these people in the form of welfare benefits.

[Frank Cannon]

Ramp up production?  You don't get it.  Mid Continental won't be buying steel from anyone if they close their doors.  So where will that production go?  Will they be burying it in holes like China is doing right now?  Good luck getting someone to pay for that.

This company was going out of business prior to Trump being elected.

[Frank Cannon]

The problem is it isn't a free market. The only country that is supposed to not subsidize key industries and to not have tariffs is the USA. I would agree with the argument that our companies should just compete with everyone else if no one subsidized their industries, or had tariffs.

You can't argue that point with the Free Shit Army here who demand that their Mexican gardeners have availability to 10 cent shovels at Walmart.   

[bilo]

You can't argue that point with the Free Shit Army here who demand that their Mexican gardeners have availability to 10 cent shovels at Walmart.

I guess you can't, but the long term consequences are severe.

Ford was right, you have to pay people or they can't buy the car you make.

[Chosen Daughter]

Well gee, in the past, it has hurt us every single time it has been implemented.  Do you see a pattern here?  But hey, if you want to ignore two centuries of history from Adam Smith's assault on mercantilism all the way through Obama's tire tariffs and instead play dumb about cause and effects, that's your prerogative.  But you could at least be honest about it and declare openly that you support liberalism and leftist policies as long as Trump is the one doing it.

As has been pointed out also the Farmers don't want a bailout they want to win.  They want to farm.  All I heard about the new deals with Mexico was better deals on car manufacturing.

[Absalom]

Gee, if only someone could have predicted this would happen.  If only we had some kind of historical record to fall back on that demonstrates the economic failures of tariffs over the last 250 years.

But hey, why introduce facts into a discussion where emotion rules the day.  The important thing here is that we sure taught China a lesson by placing steel tariffs on the non-Chinese countries that represent 99% of our steel imports - tariffs which will be paid by American consumers.

------------------------------------------------------
Regarding history, it's apparent many are far more interested in flogging their anti-Trump drum.
The US ratified the Constitution in 1788 and within a year, George Washington had enacted our
first Trade Tariff Act.
Its purpose was to finance government as Tariffs were authorized regularly, till 1913, some 125 years.
At that point, the 16th Amendment authorizing Income Taxation had been ratified providing an
alternative source of revenue for the government.
Additionally, Tariffs were designed to protect/shield our producers from competition.
The comments of one buffoon, McKinley of Ohio, later POTUS, are revealing.
He labeled Free Trade an abomination and plague that would destroy our "infant industries".
Bet he was referring to Bethlehem Steel, Standard Oil, Ford Motor, Union Pacific RR; and other infants.
Home truth is direct and simple.
It is only since WW2 that we have embraced Free Trade; as we have been protectionist from 1789 till 1930 when we enacted the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act; a major reason for the duration and severity of the Great Depression.
The legacy of protectionism is wholly owned by the Republicrat party who were politically ascendant during the 70 years from Johnson to Hoover while controlling Congress and the SC via their nominees.
Trump has many warts but it should be obvious, even to those w/the brain of a brick (apologies to bricks), that he is neither trying to raise revenue nor protect our infant industries.
What he is attempting to do is change behavior among increasingly corrupt/dishonest trading nations.
Ever since Adam Smith discredited Mercantilism and promoted Free Trade in 'The Wealth of Nations', Great Britain had been and remains the leading proponent of free trade throughout the world.
One of their greatest PM's, Lord Palmerston, articulated the following in the House of Commons;
"Great Nations have neither eternal allies nor perpetual friends; they simply have permanent interests until those interests should change by the circumstance of history."
Suggest that is a wise anchor for the foreign policy of any great nation and one we ought to embrace.
Next time anyone hears that wisdom articulated by anyone of the assholery who infest the
Establishment, please let me know!!!

[ABX]

------------------------------------------------------
Regarding history, it's apparent many are far more interested in flogging their anti-Trump drum.
The US ratified the Constitution in 1788 and within a year, George Washington had enacted our
first Trade Tariff Act.
Its purpose was to finance government as Tariffs were authorized regularly, till 1913, some 125 years.
At that point, the 16th Amendment authorizing Income Taxation had been ratified providing an
alternative source of revenue for the government.
Additionally, Tariffs were designed to protect/shield our producers from competition.
The comments of one buffoon, McKinley of Ohio, later POTUS, are revealing.
He labeled Free Trade an abomination and plague that would destroy our "infant industries".
Bet he was referring to Bethlehem Steel, Standard Oil, Ford Motor, Union Pacific RR; and other infants.
Home truth is direct and simple.
It is only since WW2 that we have embraced Free Trade; as we have been protectionist from 1789 till 1930 when we enacted the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act; a major reason for the duration and severity of the Great Depression.
The legacy of protectionism is wholly owned by the Republicrat party who were politically ascendant during the 70 years from Johnson to Hoover while controlling Congress and the SC via their nominees.
Trump has many warts but it should be obvious, even to those w/the brain of a brick (apologies to bricks), that he is neither trying to raise revenue nor protect our infant industries.
What he is attempting to do is change behavior among increasingly corrupt/dishonest trading nations.
Ever since Adam Smith discredited Mercantilism and promoted Free Trade in 'The Wealth of Nations', Great Britain had been and remains the leading proponent of free trade throughout the world.
One of their greatest PM's, Lord Palmerston, articulated the following in the House of Commons;
"Great Nations have neither eternal allies nor perpetual friends; they simply have permanent interests until those interests should change by the circumstance of history."
Suggest that is a wise anchor for the foreign policy of any great nation and one we ought to embrace.
Next time anyone hears that wisdom articulated by anyone of the assholery who infest the
Establishment, please let me know!!!

At the time that Washington, through congress, implemented the first Tariff act, it was 5% and that was the entire tax burden on the nation. For the first century, that varied between 5-10%.

Now, the tax burden on the average citizen, Federal, State, Local, Sales, Fees, Federal Interest Rates, and Pass-down costs from Tariffs is well over 50%.

Trump's tariffs are hitting businesses at the rate of 25%+ on imported products. Trump has not gone to Congress, as required by the Constitution to get authorization for said tariffs* (ie, the Representatives of the people). The very definition of taxation without representation. As a reminder, one of the triggers of the Revolutionary war was a 5% tariff stamp on tea enacted by the king, over-riding the colony representation. (remember the whole Boston Tea Party)



* And yes, I know, there are some laws that allow the President to enact tariffs in emergency situations, but all those laws have a very short timetable that he must get authorization from congress (60 days is the longest) and a cap on how much the tariffs can be (15%). The President has not sought Congressional approval for any of these and has well exceeded his legal authority.


I remember when Conservatives used to care about the Constitution and proclaimed we were "Taxed Enough Already" and "Taxation is Theft"... I guess I'm just out of date.. Millennial thinking just files away those old thoughts and laws as relics of the past.

[INVAR]

I remember when Conservatives used to care about the Constitution and proclaimed we were "Taxed Enough Already" and "Taxation is Theft"... I guess I'm just out of date.. Millennial thinking just files away those old thoughts and laws as relics of the past.

Yes, you and I are out of date.

We have a binary choice of Republican/Trumpian Fascism/Statism or Democrat Marxist Communism.

Never mind that both are Collectivist Statism on steroids - but the majority of the people in the country want some form of this.

So the idea of limited government and liberty is toast as far as our future goes.

[DB]

So put even higher tariffs on nails. Problem solved.

Good grief. Is it that difficult?

And it expands to everything with steel. And for those businesses who make products here using steel that are exported, they can't compete and their export business is over.

It is like socialism... Apply a little here to make things fair for some group and it always requires a little more to fix the consequences of what came before it. It eventually consumes everything as it swirls around over and over chasing the previous consequences.

The only answer is don't do it.

[DB]

Thank you, Barack Obama.

Now, back here in reality, have you even looked at job listings lately? Factories are hiring more than they have in years now. It's the white-collar economy that's losing ground.

It is real easy to make the economy hum when you print/borrow trillions and cut taxes, at least for some. It isn't real and isn't sustainable.

And I guess it is no big deal when government picks winners and losers. If it happens to be your business becoming the loser no big deal, look at all the other "winners"...

F'ing great...

[ABX]

And it expands to everything with steel. And for those businesses who make products here using steel that are exported, they can't compete and their export business is over.

It is like socialism... Apply a little here to make things fair for some group and it always requires a little more to fix the consequences of what came before it. It eventually consumes everything as it swirls around over and over chasing the previous consequences.

The only answer is don't do it.

Kind of like the Farm Bailout. We have to give farmers a bailout because the Chinese retaliated against our tariffs; a bailout with money borrowed from China adding to our ever expanding national debt, devaluing the dollar, putting us at a less competitive advantage, requiring more bailouts.. and so on and so on and so on..

We saw how this played out under Jimmy Carter with the Farm Crisis due to his tariffs. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[ABX]

It is real easy to make the economy hum when you print/borrow trillions and cut taxes, at least for some. It isn't real and isn't sustainable.

And I guess it is no big deal when government picks winners and losers. If it happens to be your business becoming the loser no big deal, look at all the other "winners"...

F'ing great...

It is like a short-term high and energy rush you get from a hit of Cocaine. It doesn't last and you are worse off for it in the end.

[corbe]

   Seems germane to the topic at hand, and probably  I.D.I.O.T (It Deserves It's Own Thread)

Steel workers union leaders demand pay increase as profits rise after tariffs

By Megan Keller - 09/11/18 05:13 PM EDT   

Leaders of the United Steelworkers union are demanding higher wages from two of the biggest U.S. steelmakers as President Trump's tariffs propel industry profits.

"We feel we need some recognition and to share in the profits of the company," said Michael Young, president of the union's branch for the Midwest plant of U.S. Steel Corp., one of the companies facing down union leaders according to The Wall Street Journal.

The price of steel jumped by more than 30 percent this year after the U.S. levied tariffs on foreign steel, causing profits to rise for the industry generally.

<..snip..>

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/406144-steel-workers-union-leaders-demand-pay-increase-as-profits-rise-after-tariffs