Author Topic: 'We are not making sufficient progress': Trump directs Pompeo to cancel North Korea trip  (Read 9948 times)

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Online roamer_1

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LOL!

And let me say again @roamer_1 how I see you in a completely different light since that abortion and homosexuality/originates? discussions.

Your take on President Trump used to get my blood pressure up.  Not anymore.

Can't explain it.    :shrug:


 :laugh:

@DCPatriot
I must be somewhat brusque in my delivery - I don't like the man, but it truly isn't about the man himself... as with all things, it is the principle of the thing that I will rise to defend.

It's all good.
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« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 04:59:29 am by roamer_1 »

Offline DB

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OK, But it was still a pretty damn good guess...

I was a Trackball freak, back in the day... What I could do with that thing...
In truth, my investment was largely due to my illness, which was under way at that time, but limited to painful hands... I literally couldn't grasp a mouse anymore...
But man! What that trackball could do...



Apple was pretty backwards when it came to mice. I was using a 3 button mouse in the 80s. Even after the wheel came out Apple was only supporting 1 button mice (at least as I remember it). They finally abandon the 1 button mouse in the 2000's I think.

Offline Night Hides Not

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I can only imagine the outcry if I called an Orange Brigadier an Orange Mongoloid...hell, some of you cried "personal attack" when I first started using that metaphor for members of the Trump Army.

But it's ok for @DCPatriot to launch nothing but personal attacks?

LOL, I had a few classes taught by Jesuits. I received a great education at Gonzaga, and I don't take kindly to someone besmirching its reputation as a fine university. The lessons I learned there would play a large role in advocating for Ronald Reagan, a mere 4 years after graduating. There's a little twist to the story. I was debating my German neighbors in their language. I did such a good job of presenting the case for Reagan instead of their preferred candidate Carter, that I was invited to sit at the stammtische of the local gasthaus, where the conversations took place.

Talk to anyone who has lived in Germany, and they will likely tell you it's a rare occurrence for an American to be invited to the stammtische, a table reserved for family and close friends of the family.

Later that spring, our battalion was engaged in a tac eval. My job as S-4 was to manage the supply operations for an air defense artillery battalion, spread over 3 air bases, roughly 1000 square miles. My boss told me to be imaginative, so I put together a resupply scenario that included coordination with local businesses should our supply lines be cut.

The chief evaluator, a LTC, was visibly perturbed by my briefing, though the battalion cdr was laughing his ass off. When challenged by the team chief, I replied that during my 4 years in the battalion, I traveled throughout the area and knew most of the proprietors, many on a first name basis. When I suggested that we have dinner at one gasthaus the following evening, a friend of mine recommended to the LTC not to do it, "NHN will take you to the place where he sits at the stammtische." The team chief, who had several tours in Germany, knew what that meant...my words and plan had heft to them.

The larger issue was that I was a primary staff officer of a combat arms battalion that went from C-3 to C-1 in about 15 months. What we had in that battalion was great leadership at the top, a battalion commander who demanded intelligence, independence and imagination from his officers. Oh I got chewed out plenty of times, no surprise as I was still an LT, but it was forgotten the moment I walked out of his office.

Sorry, but when I contrast his leadership style to Trump's, the Donald isn't in the same ballpark. I trusted my battalion commander, knowing that he wouldn't give us any BS, and that we never had to guess where he was coming from one day to the next. We had enough work to do without any unnecessary chaos added to our daily chores.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 05:24:29 am by Mod5 »
You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.

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Offline INVAR

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@INVAR , the poor thing is compelled to respond and have an answer to Every.  Single.  Sentence.  You.  Type.

I had to.  You complained that you hated having to read endless paragraphs and essays explaining my thoughts.

So this way, I address each bogus point, snide remark or insult you guys make.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Night Hides Not

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I had to.  You complained that you hated having to read endless paragraphs and essays explaining my thoughts.

So this way, I address each bogus point, snide remark or insult you guys make.

You're a better man than I...this "political mongoloid" is turning on the ignore switch. Common ground is not to be found with the Orange Brigades. The good news is the time to read most threads will be reduced by 80% by not subjecting myself to their obtuse utterances.
You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.

1 John 3:18: Let us love not in word or speech, but in truth and action.

Online DCPatriot

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I can only imagine the outcry if I called an Orange Brigadier an Orange Mongoloid...hell, some of you cried "personal attack" when I first started using that metaphor for members of the Trump Army.

But it's ok for @DCPatriot to launch nothing but personal attacks?

LOL, I had a few classes taught by Jesuits. I received a great education at Gonzaga, and I don't take kindly to someone besmirching its reputation as a fine university. The lessons I learned there would play a large role in advocating for Ronald Reagan, a mere 4 years after graduating. There's a little twist to the story. I was debating my German neighbors in their language. I did such a good job of presenting the case for Reagan instead of their preferred candidate Carter, that I was invited to sit at the stammtische of the local gasthaus, where the conversations took place.


LOL!   I was taught by Jesuits too.   Stop your stupid whining and go back and put your MOD5 disguise on.  Screw you.

"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Neverdul

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All I can say is that it was a good thing that we didn’t cancel those military exercises with South Korea. 

No, wait, what? Never mind.

Wonder how much these are worth now?



$4.69
Free Shipping
Was $4.99 Save 6%


https://www.ebay.com/i/123216540569?chn=ps
So This Is How Liberty Dies, With Thunderous Applause

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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There's a negotiating principle called 'anticipating compromise'. I believe Trump was trying to encourage Kim, maybe attempting to build a little pressure on him to deliver.

Kinda like potty training toddlers. Are you lying just cause you told them their's was the best BM you've ever seen when you know darn well there's been better?

Exactly right.  You make public statements about an agreement being reached as a way to put some pressure on the other side to make it happen.  It's a no-risk negotiating tactic that costs you nothing except with those looking to attack you anyway.

Unlike Chamberlain and whomever else Trump was compared to, he gave Kim nothing of substance.  Sanctions all remained fully in effect, etc..

Trump played nice.  His next step will be playing not nice.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 01:43:48 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online DCPatriot

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Exactly right.  You make public statements about an agreement being reached as a way to put some pressure on the other side to make it happen.  It's a no-risk negotiating tactic that costs you nothing except with those looking to attack you anyway.

Unlike Chamberlain and whomever else Trump was compared to, he gave Kim nothing of substance.  Sanctions all remained fully in effect, etc..

Trump played nice.  His next step will be playing not nice.

And what's fascinating here is that there are members in their 30's to 80's who've apparently never aware of this tactic.

Publicly praise Kim, at the same time painting him into a corner.

And in the event the time comes where "he won't be nice", it will have to be completed in days.  Not weeks.

...something to give pause to China and Russia.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline INVAR

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You make public statements about an agreement being reached as a way to put some pressure on the other side to make it happen.  It's a no-risk negotiating tactic that costs you nothing



Only trust, reputation and millions of lives.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Sanguine

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Only trust, reputation and millions of lives.

How does this have anything to do with this situation?

Offline Wingnut

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How does this have anything to do with this situation?

Just the ramblings of a malcontent.
I am just a Technicolor Dream Cat riding this kaleidoscope of life.

Offline INVAR

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How does this have anything to do with this situation?

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Sanguine

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That doesn't answer the question.  Trump is currently engaged in a negotiation with NK.  Chamberlain, apparently with all the best intentions and much support in Europe, signed a treaty with Hitler.  Where's any of the parallels? 

Offline INVAR

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That doesn't answer the question.  Trump is currently engaged in a negotiation with NK.  Chamberlain, apparently with all the best intentions and much support in Europe, signed a treaty with Hitler.  Where's any of the parallels?



"I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Go home and get a nice quiet sleep." - Neville Chamberlain  September 30, 1938





"North Korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem. No longer - sleep well tonight!"

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 13, 2018



There Is No Longer Any Nuclear Threat From North Korea
- DJT
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Sanguine

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"I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Go home and get a nice quiet sleep." - Neville Chamberlain  September 30, 1938





"North Korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem. No longer - sleep well tonight!"

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 13, 2018



There Is No Longer Any Nuclear Threat From North Korea
- DJT

Yes, Chamberlain signed a bad treaty.  Trump is currently engaged in negotiation.  You still haven't shown any parallels, unless you're a time-traveler and already know how this is going to turn out.

Online DCPatriot

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Neville Chamberlain isn't a good analogy.

He didn't have a pair of aces in the hole and another one showing.

The USA is a lot stronger and technologically advanced than 1930's Britain.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline INVAR

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Yes, Chamberlain signed a bad treaty.  Trump is currently engaged in negotiation.  You still haven't shown any parallels, unless you're a time-traveler and already know how this is going to turn out.

I guess I do not understand what part of a definitive statement There Is No Longer Any Nuclear Threat From North Korea you fail to grasp when events are telling us that such a declaration was complete and total bullshit.

If you cannot see the parallels, it is because you do not want to see them.

The ONLY difference, is that UNLIKE Chamberlain who took Hitler at his word because they had no direct dealings with him before, Trump decided to make a definitive statement that NK was no longer a nuclear threat to anyone -in order to take a victory lap to cheers with decades of experience with what the NORKS do with agreements and negotiations.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Sanguine

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I guess I do not understand what part of a definitive statement There Is No Longer Any Nuclear Threat From North Korea you fail to grasp when events are telling us that such a declaration was complete and total bullshit.

Ah, the old binary choice logical fallacy.  As per usual, there are other alternatives than the one that you have chosen and the one that you assume I have chosen (Trump is stupid and/or lies and Sanguine is too stupid to understand the situation).

Again, Trump HAS NOT SIGNED A TREATY.  Therefore comparing his actions to signing a treaty is not accurate.  Does Trump lie?  Clearly and unequivocally.  Is there possibly another purpose for him to make that declaration?  Absolutely, it is part of his negotiation strategy.  Do I agree with that strategy?  Probably, if it works.  Is it how I do negotiations?  Probably not, but then I'm not POTUS.


Quote
If you cannot see the parallels, it is because you do not want to see them.

The ONLY difference, is that UNLIKE Chamberlain who took Hitler at his word because they had no direct dealings with him before, Trump decided to make a definitive statement that NK was no longer a nuclear threat to anyone -in order to take a victory lap to cheers with decades of experience with what the NORKS do with agreements and negotiations.

We have reached our usual impasse, so you needn't bother to answer this.  The impasse where I say: "but you could consider......." and, where you say: "no, there are no other alternatives."

Offline INVAR

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Again, Trump HAS NOT SIGNED A TREATY. 

No.  He made a definitive statement and said almost verbatim, what Chamberlain said after his meeting with Hitler: "Sleep well, the threat is gone".

Does Trump lie?  Clearly and unequivocally.  Is there possibly another purpose for him to make that declaration?  Absolutely, it is part of his negotiation strategy. 

I do not believe that for a split second.  It had everything to do with basking in cheers and accolades and attention which Trump craves more than anything else.  It has nothing to do with a negotiation strategy, that's just bullshit spin to justify the stupidity of the statement being made in the first place.  I do not buy the bogus argument that Trump plays dimensional chess. 

At all.

We have reached our usual impasse, so you needn't bother to answer this.  The impasse where I say: "but you could consider......." and, where you say: "no, there are no other alternatives.

Like I said, if you do not recognize the parallels, it is because you choose not to see them.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Fantasywriter

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That doesn't answer the question.  Trump is currently engaged in a negotiation with NK.  Chamberlain, apparently with all the best intentions and much support in Europe, signed a treaty with Hitler.  Where's any of the parallels?

This is why I no longer argue about Trump with NTs. Their hatred makes them irrational. Therefore it's neither a productive nor a profitable debate.

Back before my soft ban I argued with some TOS NTs. [This was before the election.] They made so many dire predictions, and were SO certain they were right.

To date, not a single one of those predictions has materialized.  And to their great credit, I can name a raft of NTs that are now 100% onboard the Trump train.

Then you have those who are still nickel and diming Trump's every move, thought and word. For example, Trump engages with NK, and if the fix is not instantaneous out come the brickbats.

It is a 100% waste of time to argue with such individuals. The debate will waste time and never accomplish squat. Rather, the best you can do is offer to check back later, and exchange updates as the situation progresses. This won't satisfy Forever-Never-Trumpers' pathological need to relentlessly fault Trump, but it WILL be a good use of time and energy.  ☺

Online roamer_1

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This is why I no longer argue about Trump with NTs. Their hatred makes them irrational.

There it is again, typical liberal 'hater' tactic.
Bullshit.

Offline Fantasywriter

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There it is again, typical liberal 'hater' tactic.
Bullshit.

Uh oh; the language police are after me again.  😁

Roamer, I post my honest and sincere thoughts and observations. If you consider my POV to be BS, maybe you could simply skip my posts in the future?

Online roamer_1

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Uh oh; the language police are after me again.  😁

Roamer, I post my honest and sincere thoughts and observations. If you consider my POV to be BS, maybe you could simply skip my posts in the future?

That would be fine @Fantasywriter , but the problem with that is that I generally enjoy your writing, and I have, over the years, generally enjoyed your opinion, even if in difference.

But you don't get an opinion wrt how I think, and your 'hater' comments are nothing but a juvenile form of mind reading - And it is beneath you.

Offline Fantasywriter

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That would be fine @Fantasywriter , but the problem with that is that I generally enjoy your writing, and I have, over the years, generally enjoyed your opinion, even if in difference.

But you don't get an opinion wrt how I think, and your 'hater' comments are nothing but a juvenile form of mind reading - And it is beneath you.

Roamer, it seems to me that the foundation of your criticism is this: that I,  FW, am unable to recognize/identify hatred when I see it.

Needless to say, I reject that opinion. Here's why.

There are two ways for any of us to approach another person. A, is the empathetic approach. This involves giving others the same benefit of the doubt that we like to receive ourselves, and it most particularly involves NOT assigning bad motives to people whose motives are known only to themselves and to God. Another component of this approach is a refusal to legalisticallly pick a person apart at the seams, which again is only putting the Golden Rule into practice.

B is the aggressive prosecutor approach: anything you say can and WILL be used against you. This approach, while entirely appropriate in the courtroom, is simply a prescription for misunderstanding and vilifying people in the broader context. If we see our job as putting every word, action and thought of another person under the microscope to the ends of publicly criticizing them, that is the antithesis of love. It isn't even close to neutrality, either.

Rather, it is hate. That is my 100% firm conviction, and I speak circumspectly, not off the cuff. I.e.: I have considered this long and hard and drawn my conclusions. I don't ask everyone to agree with me. It would be nice, however, if I could express my truest conclusions without having them labeled BS. A simple, "I see it differently," would suffice.