Is There Enough of America Left To Be Saved?

[Bigun]

And we should all make ourselves aware of crap like this currently going on at our institutions of "higher" learning @Right_in_Virginia.

https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/47769/

[Free Vulcan]

In the interior of this nation - yes.

[Absalom]

@Absalom and I can tell you that it isn't easy watching the country you and every generation of your ancestry have fought and bled for die.

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When historians take the measure of a culture/society
they ask/answer the question:
 "What were the values (be it Persia, Ancient Greece, Aztec Mexico,
Renaissance Italy, Imperial Britain, Czarist Russia or anyone else) that
allowed them to survive and thrive or conversely, decline and fall.
Suggest it's way past high time we asked this question of ourselves,
leaving out the pious platitudes, sanctimonious malarkey and
constitutional banalities, so beloved by far too many.

[INVAR]

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When historians take the measure of a culture/society
they ask/answer the question:
 "What were the values (be it Persia, Ancient Greece, Aztec Mexico,
Renaissance Italy, Imperial Britain, Czarist Russia or anyone else) that
allowed them to survive and thrive or conversely, decline and fall.
Suggest it's way past high time we asked this question of ourselves,
leaving out the pious platitudes, sanctimonious malarkey and
constitutional banalities, so beloved by far too many.

Yet those pious platitudes, sanctimonious malarkey and constitutional banalities WERE the values that established us and were cause to thrive.

Discarding what many consider to be the pious platitudes, sanctimonious malarkey and constitutional banalities is why we have arrived where we have culturally and societally.

They have been replaced with new platitudes, new malarkey and a banal idea of a living Constitution that changes with the wind depending on the cultural zeitgeist.

[roamer_1]

That would be the fault of parents and the churches, who abdicated their responsibilities to teach and left the education of their children to corrupt Godless Communistic school systems for the purpose of equipping them to earn wealth, devoid of wisdom.

I see something else.
Yes, I see what you do - But I also see Millenials returning to the land. Late 20's/early 30's families, fed up with the system and endeavoring to learn the old ways... homesteading is a massive movement - Buying up old farms, restoring them, and trying to live on what the land will produce... Tiny House is a massive movement. Home schoolers are burgeoning.

It is easy to see a particular doom, taking a snapshot of early 20's Millenials... Especially the university crowd.

But sooner or later, those young, aspiring idiots must leave their protected bubbles and safe spaces, and find out all they have been taught are lies. And what comes from that is often astounding.

[INVAR]

I see something else.
Yes, I see what you do - But I also see Millenials returning to the land. Late 20's/early 30's families, fed up with the system and endeavoring to learn the old ways... homesteading is a massive movement - Buying up old farms, restoring them, and trying to live on what the land will produce... Tiny House is a massive movement. Home schoolers are burgeoning.

It is easy to see a particular doom, taking a snapshot of early 20's Millenials... Especially the university crowd.

But sooner or later, those young, aspiring idiots must leave their protected bubbles and safe spaces, and find out all they have been taught are lies. And what comes from that is often astounding.

True.

But since you and I and the Founders both understand that liberty was a gift of God, rooted in His Word - do we have the hubris to think that a generation of those you cite above - can regain what these generations have discarded without repentance and works to receive the blessing?

Liberty had to be fought for to preserve in this land.  It was preceded by serious national trials to test the people in hardship to see if they were worthy to be forged into the instruments necessary to allow liberty to flourish.  Had the Great Awakening not occurred in the 1750's-60's, we would never have won the contest with England in the 1770's.

Is this people, who are now being outbred by aliens in this land 10 to 1, whom are without any allegiance or homogeny to the culture that once was, capable of such a task?

I would have more hope if the churches were leading the movement instead of self-preservation fads.

[Sanguine]

True.

But since you and I and the Founders both understand that liberty was a gift of God, rooted in His Word - do we have the hubris to think that a generation of those you cite above - can regain what these generations have discarded without repentance and works to receive the blessing?

Liberty had to be fought for to preserve in this land.  It was preceded by serious national trials to test the people in hardship to see if they were worthy to be forged into the instruments necessary to allow liberty to flourish.  Had the Great Awakening not occurred in the 1750's-60's, we would never have won the contest with England in the 1770's.

Is this people, who are now being outbred by aliens in this land 10 to 1, whom are without any allegiance or homogeny to the culture that once was, capable of such a task?

I would have more hope if the churches were leading the movement instead of self-preservation fads.

What churches?  The majority of them seem to be playing for the other side.

[roamer_1]

Is this people, who are now being outbred by aliens in this land 10 to 1, whom are without any allegiance or homogeny to the culture that once was, capable of such a task?

I would have more hope if the churches were leading the movement instead of self-preservation fads.

I don't think it is merely a fad... It is a large movement. These people have found  their lives to be hollow in academia, and hollow in suburban materialism, and are finding life in the frugal bounty of the land... which of course, invariably comes with Conservatism and Christianity.

Can they do it? They ARE doing it.
We just got done with a chicken slaughter... 60-ish Cornish Cross... Second slaughter this year...

A handful came to learn - Their first time killing anything other than a fish (if that)... There is something profound in a thirty-ish woman cutting her first throat, and weeping uncontrollably for the act of it. But in it, she learns the value of life. It's a whole nuther thing from buying meat on a tray, as any farmer or rancher or hunter knows inherently.

I don't know nothing. I don't know if they will in fact be up to it... But they are trying. And more and more are hearing the call. Their crazy friends who went out to the backwoods come to visit, full of life and faith, with young sons grown tall and hard... The comparison is easy to make, and thus another family sees.

Revival may be on the way - and I will pray for it every day.

[darroll]

A depression would save us.
If they run off Trump, the market would crash (Another 1929).
The money people would get what they could thru their stop loss programs and leave this country.
The nasty people would kill each other for food and or dope.
Then in about twenty years, the country would be fit to live in.

[INVAR]

Revival may be on the way - and I will pray for it every day.

This is why we need to keep up with the warnings.

At minimum, they will serve as a witness, at best they may be the catalyst towards what you pray for.

There are enough Joel Osteens out there for the masses to scratch itching ears.

Doing a Jeremiah, is a lot less welcome to a people who have become the epitome of Isaiah 30:10.

[Victoria33]

When society rejects foundational principles for the empty promise of equality, safety and provision; when it rejects it's past and rewrites it to assuage modern ideas; when it eschews the biblical religious heritage that made liberty possible here; when it does not pass on those values to their children - the 'old America' is lost and we arrive where we find ourselves today: on the way down off the cliff.

@INVAR

I lived through the time no houses were locked, cars were not locked on the street; people left their car key in the car.  People were safe walking alone by themselves.  Almost all people were in church.  Now, we have no safe country or town or house, unless the house is protected and we will kill if it's safety is violated.  I can live well a very long time if I lock my door right now and I know you can - this country is no longer a country - it is a place to live, that is all.

[roamer_1]

@INVAR

I lived through the time no houses were locked, cars were not locked on the street; people left their car key in the car.  People were safe walking alone by themselves.  Almost all people were in church.  Now, we have no safe country or town or house, unless the house is protected and we will kill if it's safety is violated.  I can live well a very long time if I lock my door right now and I know you can - this country is no longer a country - it is a place to live, that is all.

It's still here.
I am a mile out of town though...
Don't lock the doors, other than the front one, because I don't want Chewy getting out if someone were to stick their head in and 'halloo!'

Never lock the truck or the van... and the keys have never been out of the ignition on either one... there's good sound in the van, and a laptop, and there's a .357 mag in the side pocket of the truck... Ain't worried.

[INVAR]

It's still here.
I am a mile out of town though...
Don't lock the doors, other than the front one, because I don't want Chewy getting out if someone were to stick their head in and 'halloo!'

Never lock the truck or the van... and the keys have never been out of the ignition on either one... there's good sound in the van, and a laptop, and there's a .357 mag in the side pocket of the truck... Ain't worried.

It used to be that way out here.

Not any more. 

Meth and heroin are epidemic.  With it all the insanity that comes with it.   Gangs have erupted in the big towns and cities within an hour's drive of us.  Corporate farms have brought in villages of Mexicans to work the fields and they are here all the time now, not just in Spring and Harvest on worker Visas anymore.  Lots of Locusts from up North who have fled their Socialist People's Republics of Democrat strongholds have moved into the rural hills out here during the last 12 years - building McMansions and changing the slow-paced Southern culture into yet another suburbia.   Voting for the same crap that caused the unaffordable high-tax cesspools they left.  Then there's the Somalian refugees settled overnight in a county South of us.  The locals were all let go from a chicken plant and 200 or so Somalis suddenly had jobs there.  Now there's a Mosque on Main street out there - all thanks to Obama.

The times they are a changin'.  Old timers out here are shocked at how fast everything has changed locally. 

[roamer_1]

It used to be that way out here.

Not any more. 

The times they are a changin'.  Old timers out here are shocked at how fast everything has changed locally.

Yeah... in town it's not safe... West side, and Evergreen especially... And even the east side, which used to be the rich side of town, is not very safe. Anyone who can has relocated  into the developments (suburbs if you will, though the whole town wouldn't really make a suburb) and gated communities.

Me, I am making moves to move further back in the sticks where it remains sane. But for now,I am safe and comfortable here. Had some auto breakins a while back, but it was quickly found out to be a renter a coupe doors down - Made him gone pretty quick. Other than that, no troubles at all.

[bigheadfred]

@INVAR

I lived through the time no houses were locked, cars were not locked on the street; people left their car key in the car.  People were safe walking alone by themselves.  Almost all people were in church.  Now, we have no safe country or town or house, unless the house is protected and we will kill if it's safety is violated.  I can live well a very long time if I lock my door right now and I know you can - this country is no longer a country - it is a place to live, that is all.

I don't lock my house. I don't lock my car. In fact, I didn't even have a house key until a couple of weeks ago when I walked out of work and came home early. The wife was gone and had locked the house. There is a guy (with some mental problems) down the block that will come in and kipe smokes. We have a place for cigs, keys, and the dog leashes by the front door. We smoke outside so we leave packs by the door.  That is as far in as this guy will come.

This is a quiet little place where we live. People work at keeping it that way. People in urban areas can have it. And I don't know if many of those ARE worth saving.

[Smokin Joe]

No, the 70's were horrible. Hippies and riots and crime and all sorts of other stupid ideas. And, we had that "rolling recession" in the 80's and a number of my neighbors had to declare personal bankruptcy.  Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.

Yeah. I remember when nostalgia was great! Not like today....

[sneakypete]

No, the 70's were horrible. Hippies and riots and crime and all sorts of other stupid ideas. And, we had that "rolling recession" in the 80's and a number of my neighbors had to declare personal bankruptcy.  Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.

@Sanguine

GENUINE "hippies" were some of the finest Americans alive because they dared to question power. Every generation must do this if we are to remain a free people.

Despite the accepted stereotype,I had no trouble meeting,partying,and staying several days with hippies when I came back to the US from Okinawa in 1967,and as a soldier traveling under orders at the time,I was required to wear my uniform. As you can imagine,I stood out in San Francisco while walking around in army dress greens with jump boots and a green beret. Never met any hostility at all. Just people asking sincere questions I wish I had been better prepared to answer. They mostly disagreed,but that didn't stop them from offering me a place to stay and taking me to parties. Very nice people.

These were genuine hippies,not the communists agents that took over and became media favorites a year or two later.

I'm with ya on the rest of it,though.

[Silver Pines]

@INVAR

I lived through the time no houses were locked, cars were not locked on the street; people left their car key in the car.  People were safe walking alone by themselves.  Almost all people were in church.  Now, we have no safe country or town or house, unless the house is protected and we will kill if it's safety is violated.  I can live well a very long time if I lock my door right now and I know you can - this country is no longer a country - it is a place to live, that is all.

@Victoria33

At the risk of being called a pessimist or a defeatist, I think we’re past saving the country.  The left owns the culture; that’s not going to change.  There’s not going to be a day when trends reverse and people suddenly start believing gay marriage is wrong again.  Or when the love of man  grows warm again and the now default state of rage simmers down. 

Not going to get into a religion debate with anyone, but if you believe the back of the Book is more than allegory, you know that society—the culture—will continue to deteriorate.  It has to.

This area used to be one where you could leave your doors unlocked, too.  It was before my time but I’ve heard my parents talk about it.  My in laws were slow to realize things had changed.  They went on vacation in the early nineties (before I knew them) and didn’t bother with locks.  When they came home, the place had been ransacked.

When I get in the car, my first move before taking my bag off my shoulder is to slam the locks.

[sneakypete]

Lots of sniping so far, but no one has addressed the original premise:
"Is There Enough of America Left To Be Saved?"

Do you really care if Chicago remains part of the USA? If so, why?

Is Chicago and Minnesota a part of America now? You can't lose what is already gone.

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine

GENUINE "hippies" were some of the finest Americans alive because they dared to question power. Every generation must do this if we are to remain a free people.

Despite the accepted stereotype,I had no trouble meeting,partying,and staying several days with hippies when I came back to the US from Okinawa in 1967,and as a soldier traveling under orders at the time,I was required to wear my uniform. As you can imagine,I stood out in San Francisco while walking around in army dress greens with jump boots and a green beret. Never met any hostility at all. Just people asking sincere questions I wish I had been better prepared to answer. They mostly disagreed,but that didn't stop them from offering me a place to stay and taking me to parties. Very nice people.

These were genuine hippies,not the communists agents that took over and became media favorites a year or two later.

I'm with ya on the rest of it,though.

I'm a little younger than you, and the hippies I remember were of the Ayers ilk, misogynist and ready to "tear it down". 

[Smokin Joe]

I'm a little younger than you, and the hippies I remember were of the Ayers ilk, misogynist and ready to "tear it down".

That was "The New Left". They are hijackers, who not only hijacked the hippies, but the whole Democrat Party. (While we might not have agreed with JFK and HHH and their ideas for solving America's problems, there was no doubt that they were patriotic Americans, they just had a different idea how to go about things.) But not The New Left. They were communists, socialists, Marxist sympathizers, agents, and useful idiots who proselytized "turning on, tuning out and dropping out, and then got on the plane to fly cross country and deliver another speech.

Plane fare was hardly the sort of scratch that someone who genuinely was living the life of "peace and love and sharing" could afford, but it didn't stop them from flying all over and 'sharing their message'. That's when I knew those people were a fraud.

@sneakypete The folks you met were much like the bikers I have known and rode with, back before the 1% clubs started having turf problems with a serious profit motive behind the worst of it. Also solid people, who would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it.  In both cases, the Media image of what who was and stood for has dominated the American psyche, not reality. Like a crucible of smelted metal, the slag rises to the top and that's what the media focus on.

[sneakypete]

I'm a little younger than you, and the hippies I remember were of the Ayers ilk, misogynist and ready to "tear it down".

@Sanguine

Yup. That was the generation that became hippies because it was stylish and cool,and all of them thought that THEY were too "special" to go to VN. I was seeing them getting dropped off on Haight Ashbury by their parents in new luxyry cars while walking down the street with the ones I was friendly with. In FACT,the ones I had been talking with warned me to stay away from the army recruitment center and some other area of town I forget now because "everybody there is looking for trouble and wanting to be on tv".

The REAL hippies were mostly apolitical when it came to party politics. What they wanted was to live in a world where they would be left alone to enjoy their lives as long as they weren't harming anyone else and nobody was trying to harm them. They listened politely to my arguments that communism MUST be fought or they and everyone else would not be allowed to live in peace,but I am not sure they believed me. They did listen,though.

The ones you are talking about and the media focused on were violent leftists,not hippies. They just liked to dress like hippies and do drugs. Stories about people wanting to live and let live have no interest for the media because stories about them don't attract any attention,and attention sells advertising.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

The folks you met were much like the bikers I have known and rode with, back before the 1% clubs started having turf problems with a serious profit motive behind the worst of it. Also solid people, who would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it.  In both cases, the Media image of what who was and stood for has dominated the American psyche, not reality. Like a crucible of smelted metal, the slag rises to the top and that's what the media focus on.

Yup. I started riding in 65,and build my first "chopper" (1940 Knucklehead) in 1970.  Rode a fat bob Pan before that. I got along GREAT with clubbers because I understood a couple of rules and was careful to NEVER violate them. I NEVER asked about or showed any interest in "Club Business",mostly because I never HAD any interest in club business,and despite being offered membership in a few clubs,turned them down because I am a loner and not all that social by nature.  I like people just fine,but not so much after there are more than 3 or 4 of them around. They respected that,and I respected them doing their thing.

Once had a club official in the Outlaws MC club offer to pay me to allow them to steal my shovel when he heard me say I had insurance on it,and turned him down. No problem. One thing they all understood was nobody likes having anybody screw with their scoot.  The president had a bike shop in Denver,and used to lend me tools and sell me parts wholesale. Little John,the guy that invented the 5 speed trans and sold Harley the right to build it even gave me parts a couple of times. Little he wasn't. I once saw him start a shovelhead using his arm on the kickstarter,not his leg. He used to bet people that didn't know him that he could do it.

I also got along with everybody I met in the Outlaws, Renegades,Pagans,Galloping Gooses,Brother Speed,and a couple of smaller clubs whose names I can't remember now.

All those guys are good guys if you are dealing with them one or one as scooter trash to scooter trash,but the minute two or three of his buds show up is the instant you want to leave because then it tends to turn into "us versus them",and you are the only "them" there.

And this bears repeating. You NEVER ask ANY of them about Club Business,and if they start to discuss Club Business while you are around,you leave right then. NO exceptions.

Got along with everybody  BUT Hells Angels. Never once met one of those bastards that didn't have a attitude.

[Smokin Joe]

@sneakypete I stayed independent, too, but I was an ABATE Rep for over a decade and didn't want club friction to get in the middle of the political goals of keeping the freedom to choose what safety equipment to use, when. We were successful in keeping that for adults, anyway, which is a good deal.
As far as Club Business goes, start that and I leave the room. It isn't my business, like you said, whether an AMA club or not, if you get my drift. I can't think of any club who had members I did not get along with, and was asked if I was interested in prospecting a couple. I, too declined, partly because what I am doing for a living did not allow me to schedule anything much in advance, and almost all clubs have 'mandatory' events/runs. Knowing I would not be able to make those in advance pretty much did away with that idea, even after I was no longer ABATE Rep for the District.
I met a lot of fine folks, and a couple of a$$hole$, but those are everywhere, and not necessarily flying any particular patch. Yep, I even got along with the few Angels I encountered, but those guys were far from home. As long as it was biker to biker, things went well, you have to establish cred if you look like a civilian. Still have my Shovelhead but it needs work and is lower on my priority list than it would have been 20 years ago. It's stored and will keep....

[mirraflake]

I just came back from my nephews HS graduation party who lives in another state. Small town USA. He is conservative but said 75% of his class is liberal.

We are screwed. I do not have much hope. Conservatism we have experienced the last few years will not continue. White conservatives are being bred out of existense.

Brown immigrants from sh*t hole countries is going to increase because most Republican in office also want it to continue.