Author Topic: Does Trump Have What It Takes to Win on Immigration?  (Read 453 times)

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Offline endicom

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Does Trump Have What It Takes to Win on Immigration?
« on: August 08, 2018, 12:29:39 pm »
American Thinker
Karin McQuillan
Aug. 8, 2018

President Trump has faced down the Chinese, the Russians, ISIS, and North Korea, but does he have what it takes to force Congress to fix immigration?  I am beginning to think the answer is no.  Congressional leadership has secured the votes, and worked the rules, to pass the president's agenda only when the members agree with his policies, such as choosing conservative justices or lowering taxes.  On issues such as Obamacare and immigration, where the GOP establishment disagrees with Trump, he has failed.

On Obamacare, Trump gave up in disgust after killing the individual mandate.  He can't do that on immigration.  Fixing immigration was a big promise.  He has got to deliver.

The art of negotiation requires both carrots and sticks.  Trump has shown little to offer or threaten that the impervious incumbents of the GOP want or fear.  He has endorsed their candidates and campaigned for them and been rewarded with no loyalty.  The rewards of their lobbyists and payoffs of crony corruption have made our politicians, especially leadership, independent of voters and of the president.

More... https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/08/does_trump_have_what_it_takes_to_win_on_immigration.html

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Does Trump Have What It Takes to Win on Immigration?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 12:58:39 pm »
He can get what he wants on immigration if he gives others what they want on other issues.   That's how things traditionally get done in Washington.   There had been a basic and simple formulation touted a while back - funding for the border wall in exchange for normalizing the status of the "Dreamers".   What happened to that?   Was it kiboshed after attempts to demand other stuff, such as an end to chain migration, or petty restrictions on the "Dreamers" to avoid the taint of "amnesty"?     Who failed to stick to the simple formulation needed for success?   
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Does Trump Have What It Takes to Win on Immigration?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2018, 02:49:15 pm »
Supreme Court opinions tend to have a lot of influence over public opinion.  The numbers flipped on gay marriage almost overnight after that Supreme Court decision.  And right now, some lower courts have issued legally indefensible rulings mandating things like the continuation of DACA, etc..  And I think that scares some Republicans.

What is needed is for those cases to make it up to SCOTUS, and for Trump to get the favorable rulings he's inevitably going to get.  When that happens, he'll have a lot more political capital on that issue to push for the necessary changes.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Does Trump Have What It Takes to Win on Immigration?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 03:22:19 pm »
Supreme Court opinions tend to have a lot of influence over public opinion.  The numbers flipped on gay marriage almost overnight after that Supreme Court decision.  And right now, some lower courts have issued legally indefensible rulings mandating things like the continuation of DACA, etc..  And I think that scares some Republicans.

What is needed is for those cases to make it up to SCOTUS, and for Trump to get the favorable rulings he's inevitably going to get.  When that happens, he'll have a lot more political capital on that issue to push for the necessary changes.

But why not compromise on DACA to get the border wall funded?   I've never understood what the big bugaboo is with the "dreamers".    They didn't violate the law in coming here.   Obama's program was fairly robust is linking normalization to good behavior, and never offered a pathway to citizenship or normalization for their parents.   Why not compromise to get billions to improve border security?    Isn't that the bigger problem?    You give some, you get some.   
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Does Trump Have What It Takes to Win on Immigration?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2018, 06:10:47 pm »
But why not compromise on DACA to get the border wall funded?   I've never understood what the big bugaboo is with the "dreamers".    They didn't violate the law in coming here.   Obama's program was fairly robust is linking normalization to good behavior, and never offered a pathway to citizenship or normalization for their parents.   Why not compromise to get billions to improve border security?    Isn't that the bigger problem?    You give some, you get some.

Just to clarify something at the outset:

I'm pretty sure that the legislation they tried to pass during the Obama Administration did not include anything barring Dreamers from becoming citizens.  In fact, his proposal didn't even limit the pathway to citizenship just to Dreamers:

Earned Citizenship: It is just not practical to deport 11 million undocumented immigrants living within our borders. The President’s proposal provides undocumented immigrants a legal way to earn citizenship that will encourage them to come out of the shadows so they can pay their taxes and play by the same rules as everyone else. Immigrants living here illegally must be held responsible for their actions by passing national security and criminal background checks, paying taxes and a penalty, going to the back of the line, and learning English before they can earn their citizenship. There will be no uncertainty about their ability to become U.S. citizens if they meet these eligibility criteria.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/01/29/read-president-obamas-immigration-proposal/?utm_term=.70f5b489b21b

In fact, This was the exact issue on which Ted Cruz was (unfairly) slammed for proposing his amendment.  His amendment would have supported the bill except removed the pathway to citizenship, and the Dems killed it for that very reason.  Citizenship for those here illegally is a core part of what the Democrats want.  Here's what ted said at the time:

On May 31, 2013, in an address at Princeton University alongside his old professor Robert P. George, Cruz said he became convinced that the main objective of Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer and others was to achieve a bill that included citizenship, and that Democrats were willing to torpedo the bill if citizenship was off the table.

“And what I believe is happening is that citizenship provision is designed, and the White House knows it’s designed, to be a poison pill in the House to torpedo the bill,” Cruz said, “because then they want to campaign in 2014 and 2016, and say, ‘See those Republicans? They killed immigration reform.’…”


https://www.factcheck.org/2015/12/did-cruz-support-legalization/

Also, I don't think that chain migration is an ancillary issue.  It is actually critical, because it enables people who came here illegally to become the wedge to bring others here legally.  I think that's wrong.  I'm willing to let Dreamers stay without citizenship in exchange for a wall/border security.  That's my compromise.  I'm unwilling to do a compromise that includes a wall, but then blasts gigantic holes in it via chain migration, which lets in more people with the right to become citizenship.  Nobody who broke the law to come here should be eligible for citizenship. Ever.

Staying here with legal status is an issue I'm willing to discuss.

"Chain migration" -- if permitted at all -- should be limited only to those who immigrated to this country legally.  It should not be permitted for those granted asylum based on their individual circumstances, and it should not be permitted for those who were in this country illegally.

I'd rather kill a deal than permit that.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 09:48:19 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »