Trump Takes Aim at 3D Printed Guns.

[ABX]

I am looking into 3-D Plastic Guns being sold to the public. Already spoke to NRA, doesn’t seem to make much sense!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 31, 2018

[Emjay]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I am looking into 3-D Plastic Guns being sold to the public. Already spoke to NRA, doesn’t seem to make much sense!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 31, 2018

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well ... Trump doesn't really say anything.  This sounds like a random thought.  I am curious about 3D printing myself.  It is fascinating.  Now they're building small houses this way.

[ABX]

Well ... Trump doesn't really say anything.  This sounds like a random thought.  I am curious about 3D printing myself.  It is fascinating.  Now they're building small houses this way.

And technology is only going to improve at a rapid pace. It is no longer just cheap plastics.  Of course, for a long time, one could make these with a C&C machine. Now, you can even get carbon fiber 3D printers* (and you wouldn't believe how cheap they are). This technology is still very young. Any government interference will be as useless (and harmful) at this point as any other form of prohibition the government will try.

The problem with even considering this is, to ensure that all guns aren't 'ghost' would open the door to some sort of national registration.

I would also be concerned that if he is partnering with the NRA, they would propose something that would protect manufacturers over civilians, and would love to ban any sort of home built weapon or parts of them- forcing people to buy products from manufacturers. 


* http://3d.markforged.com/carbon-fiber-3d-printer.html?mfa=bing&adg=NA-LF-Carbon-Fiber&kw=carbon-fiber-3d-printer&msclkid=fe8cb0494f3c101549abeb29cb79cd67

[libertybele]

...hmm... are 3D printable plastic guns considered a mean of self defense? If not, then it would NOT fall under the 2A with right to bear arms.  If they are considered a means of self defense then this opens up a can of worms as far as any type of restriction.

[ABX]

...hmm... are 3D printable plastic guns considered a mean of self defense? If not, then it would NOT fall under the 2A with right to bear arms.  If they are considered a means of self defense then this opens up a can of worms as far as any type of restriction.

The 2nd Amendment doesn't have any qualification to just be 'a means of self defense'. At that, it doesn't have qualification. That would open up a whole bigger can of worms to more regulation, just like it has for those who claim it was just for hunting.

It also puts the onus on the citizen to show a need- but the 2nd Amendment doesn't restrict citizens, it restricts the government. A free citizen shouldn't have to show or prove any need.

[Sanguine]

...hmm... are 3D printable plastic guns considered a mean of self defense? If not, then it would NOT fall under the 2A with right to bear arms.  If they are considered a means of self defense then this opens up a can of worms as far as any type of restriction.

Are you asking if they are fully-usable guns?  If so, I understand that that is the case.

[skeeter]

Banning plans is a meaningless gesture. 3d printers will never be banned and guns aren't that complicated and will be very easily designed.

[Wingnut]

Are you asking if they are fully-usable guns?  If so, I understand that that is the case.

Banning plans is a meaningless gesture. 3d printers will never be banned and guns aren't that complicated and will be very easily designed.

The case centers around a new court action by a handful of liberal States Attorneys  to stop the dissemination of the information on How-to make a gun with a 3-D printer.   This is a 1st amendment case in reality.

http://latimes.com/opinion/la-ol-enter-the-fray-banning-codes-for-making-untraceable-1532977243-htmlstory.html

[DCPatriot]

Are you asking if they are fully-usable guns?  If so, I understand that that is the case.

Stroke of a pen, it would seem.... suddenly, you are required to have a state-issued license to manufacture/print any type of firearm.

Problem solved.

Yes, I understand terrorists and felons aren't going to get a license.

Aren't all printers made with an embedded mark that identifies the make and model?  Been like that for years.
Do the same with 3-D printers.

[ABX]

Stroke of a pen, it would seem.... suddenly, you are required to have a state-issued license to manufacture/print any type of firearm.

Problem solved.

Yes, I understand terrorists and felons aren't going to get a license.

Aren't all printers made with an embedded mark that identifies the make and model?  Been like that for years.
Do the same with 3-D printers.

Five minutes after a manufacturer puts out something that adds an embedded mark, someone will find the means to remove it and spread that information on the net like wildfire.

At that, for regular printers, if you google it, you can find hundreds of sites and videos on how to remove those identifiers in minutes.

Government prohibitions never work. They actually bring more attention to the information. It is like attempts to ban books, they become more popular. I doubt anyone would have hear of the "Anarchist Cookbook" if it was just a few guys passing around offset printed pages made in their garage. But all the attempts by the government to ban it have created a market where millions (if not more) copies have been passed around and downloaded. (I have a whole library on a flash drive of 'banned' information like this).

[INVAR]

After the latest shootings, I am looking into banning semi automatic guns held by the public. Already spoke to NRA, the public possessing military weapons doesn’t seem to make much sense!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) Sometime in the near future

[DCPatriot]

Five minutes after a manufacturer puts out something that adds an embedded mark, someone will find the means to remove it and spread that information on the net like wildfire.

At that, for regular printers, if you google it, you can find hundreds of sites and videos on how to remove those identifiers in minutes.

Government prohibitions never work. They actually bring more attention to the information. It is like attempts to ban books, they become more popular. I doubt anyone would have hear of the "Anarchist Cookbook" if it was just a few guys passing around offset printed pages made in their garage. But all the attempts by the government to ban it have created a market where millions (if not more) copies have been passed around and downloaded. (I have a whole library on a flash drive of 'banned' information like this).

LOL!  Definitely NOT a computer maven, here.   ...just as well.  ;)

[Emjay]

Banning plans is a meaningless gesture. 3d printers will never be banned and guns aren't that complicated and will be very easily designed.

Technology can be scary as heck but it can't be banned.  Ask the buggy whip manufacturers.  I would like a robot maid, but I know she would turn on me.

[DB]

Stroke of a pen, it would seem.... suddenly, you are required to have a state-issued license to manufacture/print any type of firearm.

Problem solved.

Yes, I understand terrorists and felons aren't going to get a license.

Aren't all printers made with an embedded mark that identifies the make and model?  Been like that for years.
Do the same with 3-D printers.

First, no there is no "embedded mark" on an item printed on a 3D printer. Second, what's the point of a law or "the pen" if doesn't stop felons or terrorists? It does't even slow them down. It just causes more grief for law abiding citizen. Just a feel good law with no actual point other than being another tax/bureaucratic encroachment on liberty. Feel good laws are for lefties where the results are far less important than having "done something".

[DCPatriot]

First, no there is no "embedded mark" on an item printed on a 3D printer. Second, what's the point of a law or "the pen" if doesn't stop felons or terrorists? It does't even slow them down. It just causes more grief for law abiding citizen. Just a feel good law with no actual point other than being another tax/bureaucratic encroachment on liberty. Feel good laws are for lefties where the results are far less important than having "done something".

I agree with everything you've said, @DB

...was merely stating what was going to happen next...license to manufacture any weapon or firearm, ...regardless of process or materials therein.

Criminals wouldn't adhere...it makes more law abiding citizens, criminals.

[Cyber Liberty]

The 2nd Amendment doesn't have any qualification to just be 'a means of self defense'. At that, it doesn't have qualification. That would open up a whole bigger can of worms to more regulation, just like it has for those who claim it was just for hunting.

It also puts the onus on the citizen to show a need- but the 2nd Amendment doesn't restrict citizens, it restricts the government. A free citizen shouldn't have to show or prove any need.

I can hear it now:  "Predicate Clause!!  Bwawk bwawk!  Predicate clause!  Heller!  Heller!  Reasonable restrictions!!  Bwawk!"     

[Elderberry]

Are you asking if they are fully-usable guns?  If so, I understand that that is the case.

Printed firearms are generally inaccurate and fall apart after firing only a few rounds, experts say. They also have to be manually loaded, holding only one or two rounds at a time, since they are incapable of holding magazines.

When the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives tested a gun made using Wilson’s blueprints, the firearm broke apart after firing only one round.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/07/29/3d-printing-guns-in-your-home-a-texas-company-just-got-the-green-light-to-sell-instructions/

[The_Reader_David]

...hmm... are 3D printable plastic guns considered a mean of self defense? If not, then it would NOT fall under the 2A with right to bear arms.  If they are considered a means of self defense then this opens up a can of worms as far as any type of restriction.

(1) Any weapon which is suitable for seriously harming or killing one human attacker can be a means of self-defense.

(2) The main point of the 2A is, in fact, as a guard against tyranny, and given the way Liberator pistols worked during WWII, 3D printed plastic guns (or the generally available potential for the populace to print them) serve that purpose.

[ABX]

Printed firearms are generally inaccurate and fall apart after firing only a few rounds, experts say. They also have to be manually loaded, holding only one or two rounds at a time, since they are incapable of holding magazines.

When the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives tested a gun made using Wilson’s blueprints, the firearm broke apart after firing only one round.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/07/29/3d-printing-guns-in-your-home-a-texas-company-just-got-the-green-light-to-sell-instructions/

That was technology at is infant stages. Now, you can get carbon fiber 3D printers that can take as much pressure as steel (but don't tell the ATF). 

[Emjay]

Printed firearms are generally inaccurate and fall apart after firing only a few rounds, experts say. They also have to be manually loaded, holding only one or two rounds at a time, since they are incapable of holding magazines.

When the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives tested a gun made using Wilson’s blueprints, the firearm broke apart after firing only one round.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/07/29/3d-printing-guns-in-your-home-a-texas-company-just-got-the-green-light-to-sell-instructions/

I'm amazed they fired at all.  But the next generation may fire a whole bunch of rounds.  There are plenty of nerds at work on it.

[Elderberry]

That was technology at is infant stages. Now, you can get carbon fiber 3D printers that can take as much pressure as steel (but don't tell the ATF). 

For the price of a carbon fiber 3D printer, you could purchase a CNC mill, which is better suited for manufacturing firearms.

[Wingnut]

That was technology at is infant stages. Now, you can get carbon fiber 3D printers that can take as much pressure as steel (but don't tell the ATF). 

They have programs now that will 3-D print an AR-15 and a Semi-auto hand gun.  (I forgot the type...maybe 9 mm)

[ABX]

For the price of a carbon fiber 3D printer, you could purchase a CNC mill, which is better suited for manufacturing firearms.

Carbon Fiber 3D printers are going for $1,200 now (FLashforge models). And this is first and second generation. What happens in a year when people start using those 3D printers to make new ones (self replicating basically) like what happened with plastic filament 3D printers. Those started out over $1000 and you can get replicated kits off eBay for $200 now.

[ABX]

..and if they take 3D printing away, you can always hammer out an AK47 from an old shovel.
http://thechive.com/2012/12/06/apparently-you-can-make-an-ak-47-out-of-just-about-anything-25-photos/

[Cyber Liberty]

They have programs now that will 3-D print an AR-15 and a Semi-auto hand gun.  (I forgot the type...maybe 9 mm)

I thought they had program files for fully-auto switchable AR-15 Lowers?  That's hardly a challenge at all, no exploding cartridge to deal with.