BREAKING! Hillary’s Worst Nightmare Is Coming True On September 28th After Judge Orders It Expedited

[the_doc]

@Quix
@CatherineofAragon

Thanks for your great post.

Great wisdom is in it. And, I agree the vast majority of it.

Let me respectfully point out a weakness (?) in your theory that Trump temporarily but sincerely decided, in the timeframe from November 2016 through Inauguration Day in 2017, not to keep his campaign promise to "LockHerUp" (and that he has more recently changed his mind again--going back to his earlier campaign promise).

If you are correct, of course, his waffling would not amount to what we would normally call lying. 

My concern with your theory goes back to the fact that leading military officers had been the guys who had successfully urged Trump way back in 2015 to run for the White House.  Credible reports have suggested that our military intelligence guys were convinced that Obama and HRC were part of an international conspiracy to destroy the United States--mainly from within. They believed that having Trump as POTUS was the USA's best and perhaps last chance for defeating an existential threat against our Republic.  Surely the military guys gave Trump enough info to realize even back in 2015 that his former pal HRC was a dangerous, power-mad, America-hating crook, not just a white collar criminal who had abused her political office. 

By the time Trump took up the "LockHerUp" theme in the 2016 campaign, Trump had even more riveting evidence, based on Comey's completely phony (conspiratorial!) exoneration of HRC, that HRC was at least as bad as our loyal military had warned.  Moreover, although the MSM and the FBI had suppressed the worst stuff from Weiner's laptop, the NYPD had definitely uncovered unimaginably awful stuff of HRC's involvement in a widespread human trafficking ring within the Deep State.  Considering Trump's military connections (not to mention his famously shrewd interest in all sorts of American conspiracies), Trump surely figured out what the NYPD's fiercest anger was all about in 2016:  slave trading, especially the pedophilia kind (nasty hints of which were already found in Wikileaks' drops).

I submit that Trump already had the above info concerning HRC during his campaign--which certainly explains his original "LockHerUp" promises. That, in turn, readily explains why Trump quickly initiated an unprecedented number of federal criminal investigations right after he was sworn into office (or perhaps mere months after he had put his starting team together) .  By October 31 of his first year as POTUS, a shocking number of sealed indictments had been formed.  When the number of sealed indictments rose to somewhere around 9,000, if I recall the numbers, he issued a tediously prepared EO declaring a State of National Emergency involving Human Trafficking and Corruption.  Now, of course, the number of sealed indictments is well over 40,000.

The National Emergency that Trump has been addressing and is addressing right now BEHIND the scenes is arguably the single most important effort of his publicly tumultuous Presidency to date.  His secretive resolve has been steely.  I submit that Trump has not been waffling at any point since his 2016 campaign--probably even long before his 2016 campaign--and this despite the fact that he manifestly thought it would be a good idea to project disinterest in prosecuting HRC (with Trump thereby posing as a "gracious victor" in the 2016 election). 

Trump has known about HRC's utterly heinous crimes since before his election.  When he made prosecution of HRC a centerpiece for his campaign, it was because he realized that the USA could never forgive her for her crimes and thus, that he could never renege on his promise to prosecute her.  So, yeah, I believe he was lying when he said that he had changed his mind about prosecuting Hillary.  To suggest that his character is so foul that he could change his mind would be a bigger insult to him than the charge that he lied about changing his mind.   

(He didn't need to lie;  he could have kept his mouth shut.  But sinful habits like lying [and mouthing off] die pretty hard.) 

[Quix]

Sorry, however, imho, if folks who are bright still disbelieve Q team's closeness to POTUS as well as fighting cleverly and vigorously against horrific evils, then they are horribly uninformed.

PRAYING MEDIC is one of the best folks to listen to about Q. I think he has one vid about Q-proofs.

It is wise to keep in mind that  Q handles this 'game' (playing for life and death keeps--not just with captured enslaved children but many more) . . . Q handles his posts etc a lot like God does Scripture.

God provides plenty of Scrpture and affirmations of Scripture and even  current miracles in  order to have FAITH to believe. However, HE RARELY shoves soooo much evidence down a doubter's throat that they no longer have NO CHOICE but to believe; no longer must have FAITH to believe. It  is still the case that WITHOUT FAITH, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO  PLEASE GOD.

So it is with Q. There's more than ample evidence--some rather solid for those  perceptive and discerning enough to see it so--there's more than ample evidence to KNOW that:

1. Q team work very close with  POTUS TRUMP.

2. They are in concert on a very complicated project to help move the populace, the culture from  being controlled top to bottom by horrific satan worshipers.

3. They are following and supporting Biblical values throughout.

4. They persistently seek our prayers and support.

5. They predict with great accuracy future events.

6. The 40,000+ sealed indictments are A FACT that can be checked out on the state websites.

7. General Mattis' visit to Gitmo was a fact.

8. The missile evidently shot at AF1 was a fact.

9. The truck that tried to cause a train full of GOP Congress critters to horribly wreck was a fact--the horror prevented only by a drone flying ahead of the train for security. The area had already been cleared of traffic that the truck broke through.

10. The rescue of many thousands of imprisoned children used horribly in sex abuse and reserved for satanic sacrifice is a fact.

11. The resignation of 100-200 or more high level CEO's is a fact that has a score card available on the net--a  spreadsheet.

12. The resignation of dozens of Congress-critters is a fact. This was predicted by Q.  That most would be allowed to resign and not prosecuted if they resigned and committed to not come back.

13. The increasing arrests and publicity about high level Hollyweed pedophiles and related sex cult members and goings on is a fact.

14. The increasingly high rank of pedo guilty folks being exposed is a fact.

15. The Executive Order declaring a National Emergency due to horrific corruption, child sex abuse, high treason saturating our government and other institutions is a fact and can be found on the White House website.

16. Those who want to be somewhat ahead of the curve; those who want to be most informed for prayer;  those who want to answer POTUS' call for support; those who want to follow POTUS & Q's requests for help in red-pilling their social network--such folks  will pay close attention  to  Q-Anon's drops and work in  concert with them. That's merely good horse sense and being a good team member helping POTUS trash horrific evils in our culture.

17. Sitting on the  sidelines tsk tsking because POTUS and Q  do not do it YOUR way or as you fantasize is  PROPER will not cut it. POTUS AND Q HAVE SENT THE CALL OUT TO JOIN THE TEAM  AND PULL OUR SHARE OF THE LOAD. Unnecessarily Failing to do so will have it's own consequences that God will manage.

18. POTUS IS UNDER EXTREME THREAT TO HIS LIFE 24/7/365 because of the horrific evils he is fighting against. There's evidently been at least 12 very serious attempts on his life. THE LEAST WE CAN DO IS PRAY FOR HIS PROTECTION. Given what he has given up and what he is risking, I do not think it too much for him to ask that we believe, trust and cooperate with HIS Q-team.

19. I don't particularly enjoy sounding like an increasingly resolute 'true believer.' But the stakes are high. This is not a time for cat calls and shrill quibbling from the sidelines. Lead, follow or get the blazes out of the way.

20. For those who are bright enough, informed enough and fair-minded enough, there is abundant proof of Q's validity and closeness to Trump. For those who are hyper-skeptical, compulsively dedicated to paranoia about committing a false positive error--there will never be enough proof.

@the_doc

Thanks, but I don't believe the Q thing.  I think you're misinterpreting Romans 13; it's not about unqualified fealty/devotion to leaders, but keeping the law and respecting leaders as long as they do the right thing.

This is America; Trump is a public servant, an employee.  We don't go around demanding that people support politicians.  Compliment when right, criticize when wrong is the reasonable position.

I think I asked you once before for details about the year-end event that will have me thanking you and realizing Q is for real.  Can you give me those details---tell me more about what's supposed to happen?

[roamer_1]

@Quix
Come on, now;  I am not talking about "Divine Right."  I am saying that God is in absolute control of everything--even governments and the officials thereof.  (That's Pauline theology at its very best!)  God's mysterious superintendence of everything is the underpinning idea of Romans 13.  See my most recent post to @CatherineofAragon.

Paul presupposes that we grasp that in God's awesome providence, He even uses bad people (and secular governments) to do good things--for example, to restrain evil.  This is not difficult to grasp, even if it offends our sinful pride to confess correctly the absoluteness of God's sovereignty in everything whatsoever. 

@the_doc
While I agree in the end, this sort of thing is what drives folks away from Yahovah. This is the basis of the question 'If God is so omnipotent, why is there suffering in the world?' And that is a very legitimate question because of this sentiment. There is a helluva lot more to what's going on than that. The proof of that sovereignty is what is being played out, but until it does indeed play out, we are behind enemy lines, and in the sway of other gods (and yes, the Bible does call them that), or we don't in fact have any battle with powers and principalities, and rulers in high (spiritual) places, because the battle is already past - That is demonstrably false. That battle is finally yet to come.

Thus the use of this passage does in fact align with the 'Divine Right' concept that has been used over and again to the benefit of those other gods.

America, rightly applied, has no king for that reason. We bow our knee to but one King...

That being said, I frankly assume that you just enjoy being histrionically, publicly "crusty" when you tell me that I don't understand the passage that you happen to be ignoring in spite of my seriously good advice.   (If you will pardon a bit of gentle teasing:  I try to respect my elders in the faith of God's elect, but I have learned that some folksy old codgers are just codgers, not sages.    )

Histrionic? It is not I who is being histrionic. I will claim the 'folksy ol codger' bit. Here, pull my finger.

Speaking of God's absolute sovereignty in providence, here's yet another example of a passage that you don't seem to understand:  The point of Christ's comment about the leopard being unable to change his spots is that the leopard cannot change his OWN spots.  This idea is theologically confirmed by the predestinarian emphasis of John 6, in which chapter Jesus declares that God is the One Who determines who winds up being drawn to Christ for heart-level repentance, thereby receiving a life-changing Spirit.

In short, sinful "leopards," who cannot change their own spots, sometimes do get their spots changed by God.  If you don't believe that, you have no doctrine of conversion.  With no doctrine of conversion, you have no gospel.  You certainly can't explain Paul's own testimony of the life-changing grace of God.

I have no doubt in the saving Grace of Yeshua. None at all.
What I have doubt in is the saving grace of Tump.

One of the downsides to Paul's conversion on the Road to Damascus is how it is played by others as a convenience... to that point of it being a thing.
NO. I do not believe Tump's 'Road to Damascus conversion, nor will I for a very long time, if it is true...

I will end in this: I said the same thing when Christians hauled out the banners for Bush. I said the same thing when Christians hauled out the banners for Palin. Neither ended well, and neither this too.

[roamer_1]

Time will certainly tell.

And that is where I will leave it.

[Quix]

Not likely to be able to respond fittingly to the rest of the posts until after midnight. I need to throw some pots.

[Quix]

I have a pretty strong aversion to lying, too. And, actually, I think Trump does--usually--as well. I don't know what was in his head or motivations or urges or reflexes in this case. I'm willing to extend grace vs pontificate as though I know his heart, mind and all the contingencies involved.

@Quix
@CatherineofAragon

Let me respectfully point out a weakness (?) in your theory that Trump temporarily but sincerely decided, in the timeframe from November 2016 through Inauguration Day in 2017, not to keep his campaign promise to "LockHerUp" (and that he has more recently changed his mind again--going back to his earlier campaign promise).

If you are correct, of course, his waffling would not amount to what we would normally call lying. 

My concern with your theory goes back to the fact that leading military officers had been the guys who had successfully urged Trump way back in 2015 to run for the White House.  Credible reports have suggested that our military intelligence guys were convinced that Obama and HRC were part of an international conspiracy to destroy the United States--mainly from within. They believed that having Trump as POTUS was the USA's best and perhaps last chance for defeating an existential threat against our Republic.  Surely the military guys gave Trump enough info to realize even back in 2015 that his former pal HRC was a dangerous, power-mad, America-hating crook, not just a white collar criminal who had abused her political office. 

By the time Trump took up the "LockHerUp" theme in the 2016 campaign, Trump had even more riveting evidence, based on Comey's completely phony (conspiratorial!) exoneration of HRC, that HRC was at least as bad as our loyal military had warned.  Moreover, although the MSM and the FBI had suppressed the worst stuff from Weiner's laptop, the NYPD had definitely uncovered unimaginably awful stuff of HRC's involvement in a widespread human trafficking ring within the Deep State.  Considering Trump's military connections (not to mention his famously shrewd interest in all sorts of American conspiracies), Trump surely figured out what the NYPD's fiercest anger was all about in 2016:  slave trading, especially the pedophilia kind (nasty hints of which were already found in Wikileaks' drops).

I submit that Trump already had the above info concerning HRC during his campaign--which certainly explains his original "LockHerUp" promises. That, in turn, readily explains why Trump quickly initiated an unprecedented number of federal criminal investigations right after he was sworn into office (or perhaps mere months after he had put his starting team together) .  By October 31 of his first year as POTUS, a shocking number of sealed indictments had been formed.  When the number of sealed indictments rose to somewhere around 9,000, if I recall the numbers, he issued a tediously prepared EO declaring a State of National Emergency involving Human Trafficking and Corruption.  Now, of course, the number of sealed indictments is well over 40,000.

The National Emergency that Trump has been addressing and is addressing right now BEHIND the scenes is arguably the single most important effort of his publicly tumultuous Presidency to date.  His secretive resolve has been steely.  I submit that Trump has not been waffling at any point since his 2016 campaign--probably even long before his 2016 campaign--and this despite the fact that he manifestly thought it would be a good idea to project disinterest in prosecuting HRC (with Trump thereby posing as a "gracious victor" in the 2016 election). 

Trump has known about HRC's utterly heinous crimes since before his election.  When he made prosecution of HRC a centerpiece for his campaign, it was because he realized that the USA could never forgive her for her crimes and thus, that he could never renege on his promise to prosecute her.  So, yeah, I believe he was lying when he said that he had changed his mind about prosecuting Hillary.  To suggest that his character is so foul that he could change his mind would be a bigger insult to him than the charge that he lied about changing his mind.   

(He didn't need to lie;  he could have kept his mouth shut.  But sinful habits like lying [and mouthing off] die pretty hard.) 

[Quix]

You might search out Dr Walter Martin's discussion of free will.

Well, DB.  You brought up free will.  A concept that I struggle with.  If God is all knowing (which he is); and he knows which path we will choose, what any outcome will be, what will happen in the future, then exactly how is it that we have free will?

I am by know means challenging you, this is a question that many have tried to explain to me (clergy included) and most come up with a blank or they refer me to biblical passages.

If God knows the outcome and what is going to happen and everything is pre-determined or pre-destined, then how do we have free will and what then is the point of praying?

[Quix]

I guess I missed the part where Trump repented for anything.

I think it was  in a small group but info is scarce. Time will tell.

[DB]

Well, DB.  You brought up free will.  A concept that I struggle with.  If God is all knowing (which he is); and he knows which path we will choose, what any outcome will be, what will happen in the future, then exactly how is it that we have free will?

I am by know means challenging you, this is a question that many have tried to explain to me (clergy included) and most come up with a blank or they refer me to biblical passages.

If God knows the outcome and what is going to happen and everything is pre-determined or pre-destined, then how do we have free will and what then is the point of praying?

First, I don't even begin to know all the answers... I'm but a speck of dust in terms of the "answers". All I can say about all knowing and the future, how can God be angry with us if we do the wrong thing while God already knows we're going to do the wrong thing? Knowing we going to do the wrong thing means that the right thing wasn't an option. That doesn't make sense to me. How can you fault something that did what it was programmed to do. It is a contradiction. Either we're part of program that is going to do whatever it was setup to do - and whatever we do individually is predetermined - or we have "free will" and the future isn't fully known. Free will comes with a high price. But any other option makes life essentially meaningless. Just a cog in a machine then...

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

First, I don't even begin to know all the answers... I'm but a speck of dust in terms of the "answers". All I can say about all knowing and the future, how can God be angry with us if we do the wrong thing while God already knows we're going to do the wrong thing? Knowing we going to do the wrong thing means that the right thing wasn't an option. That doesn't make sense to me. How can you fault something that did what it was programmed to do. It is a contradiction. Either we're part of program that is going to do whatever it was setup to do - and whatever we do individually is predetermined - or we have "free will" and the future isn't fully known. Free will comes with a high price. But any other option makes life essentially meaningless. Just a cog in a machine then...

I agree with almost everything you say, starting with "I don't even begin to know all the answers".

However, I think there is a crucial logical fallacy here (and in my own thoughts).  Your (our) "contradiction" is based on a human understanding of morality/etc.  If God exists, and is (therefore) so much more than we can ever understand, then maybe it's up to Him to determine what is right and wrong, as we are wholly unqualified to judge His actions based on our puny human understanding of existence. 

I saw an article awhile back, I think it was Hawking, discussing what happened before time.  I was pretty much lost at the title.  How can there be a before time?  If you don't have time, "before" doesn't exist.  For me, it's one of those things that I just chalk up to the fact that it is simply beyond my comprehension.  It can be interesting to ponder from time to time, and I love a good science fiction book that takes an interesting angle on the subject and explores it, but I've accepted that it simply is and always will be outside my ability to comprehend. 

[roamer_1]

If God exists, and is (therefore) so much more than we can ever understand, then maybe it's up to Him to determine what is right and wrong, as we are wholly unqualified to judge His actions based on our puny human understanding of existence. 

And there it is. The knowledge of good and evil.
we think we get it and can judge.
Before the fall, we only had knowledge of the Good, because He walked with us in the garden in the cool of the day.

In that fall, we were given choice, and in having choice, the assumption that we are capable to pick and choose.

Thankfully, He wrote it all down.
Now all we have left to do is believe he knows better than we do.

[Quix]

And there it is. The knowledge of good and evil.
we think we get it and can judge.
Before the fall, we only had knowledge of the Good, because He walked with us in the garden in the cool of the day.

In that fall, we were given choice, and in having choice, the assumption that we are capable to pick and choose.

Thankfully, He wrote it all down.
Now all we have left to do is believe he knows better than we do.

Well put, imho.

[Quix]

I agree with almost everything you say, starting with "I don't even begin to know all the answers".

However, I think there is a crucial logical fallacy here (and in my own thoughts).  Your (our) "contradiction" is based on a human understanding of morality/etc.  If God exists, and is (therefore) so much more than we can ever understand, then maybe it's up to Him to determine what is right and wrong, as we are wholly unqualified to judge His actions based on our puny human understanding of existence. 
[snip]

@libertybele

imho, Dr Walter Martin had the best analogy I've come across regarding free will and God's will.

He said: Imagine a computer as vast as the multiverse we  know of.

Every possible choice of every possible organism is already programmed into the computer.

However, God the programmer, can jiggle the program any way He prefers.

At the level of the individual, there is a ROBUST DEGREE of truly free will. You really can choose to have chocolate OR vanilla ice cream etc.

At the level of the individual's conscious awareness, there really is a robust degree of free will.

Yet, God can jiggle the program within the limits He has set and within the limits of His nature.

imho, He has set up a multiverse where human individuals do not have complete free will nor are they completely determined.

And, they are responsible for their choices.

And the choices are genuine choices.

In order for there to be LOVE, there MUST be a choice to CHOOSE NON-Love.

And, the choice to choose NON-Love must have real consequences that are DIFFERENT from the choice to choose Love. Else the choice is not a real choice.

In order to grant individuals in Heaven, Heavenly rewards, there must be some truly individual merit in their choices.

There are some other complex principles involved--like FAITH--but I think that's a rough outline of FREE WILL as Walter Martin pointed toward and as I see it.

[Quix]

@the_doc

[snip]

One of the downsides to Paul's conversion on the Road to Damascus is how it is played by others as a convenience... to that point of it being a thing.
NO. I do not believe Tump's 'Road to Damascus conversion, nor will I for a very long time, if it is true...

I will end in this: I said the same thing when Christians hauled out the banners for Bush. I said the same thing when Christians hauled out the banners for Palin. Neither ended well, and neither this too.

We had extended family living in Wasilla. They insisted that Palin was  more or less the real deal and more or less walked the talk as far as they and other locals could tell.

I don't know. I wasn't there.

I do know that most folks looking at details of my life would insist that I've not been an authentic Christian during this or that  struggle.

Yet, on the whole, even during periods of intense struggle and some horrendous failures, I've consciously sought to walk with The Lord, confess, repent, do better next time.

I've learned that judging others--even some pretty obviously horrifically reprobate folks claiming to be believers--that it was very hazardous to look down a long haughty nose at them and their obvious moral failings as though I was anything but "Be merciful to ME, a sinner."

God is quite serious about how we judge being used to judge us--attitude, specifics, the whole package.

It is not a choice any mortal can spiritually afford.

AS PRAYINGMEDIC talks about when writing about 'appearing in the courts of Heaven' . . . The ONLY option is to plead guilty as charged and that The Blood of Jesus is our ONLY hope.

Our 'works of righteousness,' THE BIBLE SAYS are as used Kotex. Look it up. That's what the root words used meant. God was being startlingly vivid for a very educational reason.

None of us have a sufficiently lofty earned perch from which to castigate anyone else--particularly with haughtiness and self-righteousness.

That does NOT mean we are to fail to call out evil as God leads when we see it paraded in broad daylight as well as fittingly when seeing it in other contexts.

But if we fail to be cautious, humble and circumspect in labeling others--particularly those even claiming to be Christian--we are asking for, biting off more than we can remotely comfortably chew.
imho.

[Quix]

@the_doc

You can chide me all you want, and I expect you will, because people who enjoy believing they have special, secret knowledge often get off on feeling superior to those who fail to see the light.  But if you're waiting for me to put any stock in nutty theories about people who snack on children, Trump investigating cannibalism in the royal family, Tom Hanks' bruised eye as an Illuminati ritual, and hamburger/hot dog clocks, you're going to be waiting a long time. 

imho, you are merely illustrating a lack of substantial amounts of quality research into the topic.

Liz Crokin is a good place to start.

imho, if you have not at least researched "Podesta art" etc., then you have no business making such a naive blanket statement about such a horrendous and crucial topic of our era.

There are some very quality people who have come out of such horrors and who have never been proven wrong in their assertions.

[Quix]

Kudos for the 'codswallop' thing.  My Bible Class teacher for years absolutely despised Paul and his writings.

Yeah, well, Jr god Jimmy Carter believed that St Paul got a lot wrong. So much for the rabbit victim's theological understanding.

[roamer_1]

imho, Dr Walter Martin had the best analogy I've come across regarding free will and God's will.

That's all pretty good...

The paradox is found in antithesis in the maudlin tones of James Blunt's '
Same Mistake'...

I'm not calling for a second chance,
I'm screaming at the top of my voice.
Give me reason but don't give me choice.
'Cause I'll just make the same mistake again.

In his post modernist emoting, he finds the exact opposite of the answer.
There is no reason without choice.
One demands the other.
and both are required of sentience.

[Quix]

@the_doc

I think I asked you once before for details about the year-end event that will have me thanking you and realizing Q is for real.  Can you give me those details---tell me more about what's supposed to happen?

I'll rush in where angels fear to tread--as usual.


imho

without our being given much clarity or specificity about year end stuff . . . the best Q-informed folks tend to assume/believe the bulk of the following:

1. Before the 11/11 Military parade--a LOT of the horrific evil doers will be brought to account, if not delivered justice.

2. This is in terms of horrific corruption; outrageous child trafficking, rape, child sacrifice to satan;  high treason etc.

3. However, the caveat is that a lot of the swamp cleanup is  likely to take several years--at best. And a lot of it will not become public knowledge.

4. Will Hillary, Obummer et al be sentenced, perhaps to death, for high treason by then? We don't know. It is understood that 12 military tribunals have been meeting for approximately 6 months. They have 12 judges on each tribunal. The usual number is 9. 12 is used when the death penalty is involved. Treason is a very explicit Constitution  & law verified justification for the death penalty. The treason of those two and others has been extreme. Worse than a list of other seriously traitorous folks combined. And that doesn't even get into their child rape and sacrificing children to satan and eating their body parts.

5. It has been  said repeatedly that if they prosecuted the 70% evil doers in government, there would not be enough people left to run the government. That's one of the reason dozens of Congress critters were allowed to resign to avoid prosecution, if they promised to never return to Congress.

6. The 40,000+ sealed indictments are a real number as the state websites can easily be used to verify.

7. The freeing of thousands of children from child sex abuse and slavery has been reported moderately widely for those alert to such things and looking elsewhere than the MSM.

8. The spreadsheet showing the 200+ high level CEO's who have resigned after  POTUS Executive Order in Dec is available online.

9. The NXIVM sex cult is contributing more and more famous people to arrest.

10. Evidently 12 or more serious attempts have been  made to assassinate POTUS--one including an unprecedented missile reportedly shot at AF1.

11. The 'hacked' sub really did fire a missile toward Hawaii and it really was shot down.

12. When Q and The President ask for prayer--they mean it and need it 24/7.

13. Folks who think nothing much has happened in this war against evil and evil doers are simply poorly informed.

14. Folks who are slavishly and mindlessly addicted to hyper-rationalism, laboratory style PROOFS and a terror of falling prey to a false positive error are likely to be seriously bitten in their butts by a list of false negative errors that they seem so irrationally comfortable with.

[Quix]

That's all pretty good...

The paradox is found in antithesis in the maudlin tones of James Blunt's '
Same Mistake'...

I'm not calling for a second chance,
I'm screaming at the top of my voice.
Give me reason but don't give me choice.
'Cause I'll just make the same mistake again.

In his post modernist emoting, he finds the exact opposite of the answer.
There is no reason without choice.
One demands the other.
and both are required of sentience.

Agreed.

[roamer_1]

None of us have a sufficiently lofty earned perch from which to castigate anyone else--particularly with haughtiness and self-righteousness.

Which is not the gist of my reply.
There is no judgement in it. Judgement is way above my pay grade.
What Palin is is incidental to the point, for the most part.
My point is that Christians should be more damn sure before they get so damn sure and haul out the banners, singing Onward Christian Soldiers, marching after a mortal man that is nothing more than a concocted ideology, surely meant to ensnare them... As evidenced.

Lifting any hoomin bean to lofty messianic heights assures a fall from those heights.
That is not what Conservatives (to include Christians) do.

[Quix]

Which is not the gist of my reply.
There is no judgement in it. Judgement is way above my pay grade.
What Palin is is incidental to the point, for the most part.
My point is that Christians should be more damn sure before they get so damn sure and haul out the banners, singing Onward Christian Soldiers, marching after a mortal man that is nothing more than a concocted ideology, surely meant to ensnare them... As evidenced.

Lifting any hoomin bean to lofty messianic heights assures a fall from those heights.
That is not what Conservatives (to include Christians) do.

I didn't think that was your attitude.

Well put. Good points.
Thanks.

[DB]

I agree with almost everything you say, starting with "I don't even begin to know all the answers".

However, I think there is a crucial logical fallacy here (and in my own thoughts).  Your (our) "contradiction" is based on a human understanding of morality/etc.  If God exists, and is (therefore) so much more than we can ever understand, then maybe it's up to Him to determine what is right and wrong, as we are wholly unqualified to judge His actions based on our puny human understanding of existence. 

I saw an article awhile back, I think it was Hawking, discussing what happened before time.  I was pretty much lost at the title.  How can there be a before time?  If you don't have time, "before" doesn't exist.  For me, it's one of those things that I just chalk up to the fact that it is simply beyond my comprehension.  It can be interesting to ponder from time to time, and I love a good science fiction book that takes an interesting angle on the subject and explores it, but I've accepted that it simply is and always will be outside my ability to comprehend.

Regarding Hawking, perhaps the simplest answer is the correct answer. Hawking jumped the shark. He claimed to have insight on something that is unknowable in science. He did so to make the claim that God wasn't needed to make something from nothing. That everything from nothing was a perfectly viable theory and didn't require God. In my view Hawking burned his science credentials with that one.

[Bigun]

And there it is. The knowledge of good and evil.
we think we get it and can judge.
Before the fall, we only had knowledge of the Good, because He walked with us in the garden in the cool of the day.

In that fall, we were given choice, and in having choice, the assumption that we are capable to pick and choose.

Thankfully, He wrote it all down.
Now all we have left to do is believe he knows better than we do.

Revelation 12:7–12 

7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, ho accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”

Because Lucifer wanted to take away our free agency our Heavenly Father chose Jesus Christ to be our Savior, Satan became angry and rebelled. There was war in heaven. Satan and his followers fought against Jesus Christ and His followers. The Savior’s followers “overcame [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony” (Revelation 12:11).

In this great rebellion, Satan and all the spirits who followed him were sent away from the presence of God and cast down from heaven. A third part of the hosts of heaven were punished for following Satan. They were denied the right to receive mortal bodies.

Because we are here on earth and have mortal bodies, we know that we chose to follow Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father. Satan and his followers are also on the earth, but as spirits. They have not forgotten who we are, and they are around us daily, tempting us and enticing us to do things that are not pleasing to our Heavenly Father. In our premortal life, we chose to follow Jesus Christ and accept God’s plan. We must continue to follow Jesus Christ here on earth. Only by following Him can we return to our heavenly home.

That's about as concisse as I can make it.
 

[Sanguine]

Regarding Hawking, perhaps the simplest answer is the correct answer. Hawking jumped the shark. He claimed to have insight on something that is unknowable in science. He did so to make the claim that God wasn't needed to make something from nothing. That everything from nothing was a perfectly viable theory and didn't require God. In my view Hawking burned his science credentials with that one.

That's a great explanation of what happened with Hawking.

[Sanguine]

...
Our 'works of righteousness,' THE BIBLE SAYS are as used Kotex. Look it up. That's what the root words used meant. God was being startlingly vivid for a very educational reason.
....

@Quix, one question, re: the above quote from your earlier statement, where do you find this?  Titus?  Or, somewhere else?