Author Topic: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"  (Read 1237 times)

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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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zerohedge
tyler durden 7/26/18

[excerpt]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-26/yuan-tumbles-china-threatens-retaliation-any-amount-us-tariffs

The brief rebound in the Yuan is over as a barrage of headlines from China and US spark renewed concerns at Beijing's ability to withstand Washington's war.

Just when you thought the trend had reversed, Yuan has started tumbling back towards cycle lows...

Take your pick of what is driving this yuan weakness:

1. Trump's 'deal' with Juncker, as Goldman notes, seems likely to give the Trump Administration more political flexibility to impose additional tariffs on imports from China...
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Offline berdie

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I'll be interested to see what happens to the US market tomorrow because of this.

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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I'll be interested to see what happens to the US market tomorrow because of this.

I'm betting that if China's 'Raging' our mkt will probably be looking pretty good.
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Online DCPatriot

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  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
I'm betting that if China's 'Raging' our mkt will probably be looking pretty good.

LOL!

Wait until the magic 5% number comes out this week.   

And no....ain't tired of winning yet.
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Offline Free Vulcan

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I'll be interested to see what happens to the US market tomorrow because of this.

It's pretty calm, slightly trending up at the moment.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Looks like Trump's gamble is paying off so far.
The Republic is lost.

Online Wingnut

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Screw those funky Chinamen and their funky cheap goods !

They have more to lose than we do. 
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I'm missing something.

A cheaper yuan makes Chinese products lower cost and American goods more expensive to import.

How is that winning?

Online Wingnut

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I'm missing something.

A cheaper yuan makes Chinese products lower cost and American goods more expensive to import.

How is that winning?

Yep.  you are missing a lot.
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Yep.  you are missing a lot.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2018, 02:36:09 am »
I'm missing something.

A cheaper yuan makes Chinese products lower cost and American goods more expensive to import.

How is that winning?

A cheaper yuan makes imports more expensive.  Add on the current 15-25% tariff, and those products advertised on Chinese flat screens are out-of-reach.

What scares me a little is that World War II made The Great Depression a distant memory...and it may as well have happened a thousand years ago to a first time voter in the 1950's.

A war would definitely boost the Chinese economy.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2018, 02:54:57 am »
Thanks for the enlightenment.

You are welcome.
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2018, 02:57:05 am »
Yuan Tumbles...

That's too bad. I hope his brother Jose is ok though.

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2018, 03:02:14 am »
Yuan Tumbles...

That's too bad. I hope his brother Jose is ok though.

Jose, say can you see by the Yuan's early light...
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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2018, 03:34:46 am »
A cheaper yuan makes imports more expensive.  Add on the current 15-25% tariff, and those products advertised on Chinese flat screens are out-of-reach.

What scares me a little is that World War II made The Great Depression a distant memory...and it may as well have happened a thousand years ago to a first time voter in the 1950's.

A war would definitely boost the Chinese economy.

I'm still missing something...

Chinese products are priced in Yuan. If the dollar buys more Yuan (the Yuan's value in dollars is less, hence cheaper) the price of a Chinese TV is less not more in dollars.

Now on the other hand if the Yuan is getting stronger, it takes more dollars to buy a Yuan and Chinese imports become more expensive. But these articles says the Yuan is getting weaker.

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2018, 03:51:23 am »
I'm still missing something...

Chinese products are priced in Yuan. If the dollar buys more Yuan (the Yuan's value in dollars is less, hence cheaper) the price of a Chinese TV is less not more in dollars.

Now on the other hand if the Yuan is getting stronger, it takes more dollars to buy a Yuan and Chinese imports become more expensive. But these articles says the Yuan is getting weaker.

OK. Keep going.

Chinese exported goods get Cheaper for us to buy.

American goods Imported into China become unaffordable for them.

China gets it in the shorts Coming and Going.

They're dumping US Treasuries and Commercial Real Estate trying to raise money, and Depress the value of both those things here.

This, exposes the fact that their currency isn't stable to begin with which will Further depress it's value.

It's a win/win for us and a lose/lose for them.
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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2018, 04:05:45 am »
OK. Keep going.

Chinese exported goods get Cheaper for us to buy.

American goods Imported into China become unaffordable for them.

China gets it in the shorts Coming and Going.

They're dumping US Treasuries and Commercial Real Estate trying to raise money, and Depress the value of both those things here.

This, exposes the fact that their currency isn't stable to begin with which will Further depress it's value.

It's a win/win for us and a lose/lose for them.

Keeping the Yuan artificially low was the primary complaint here for years. It made their exports cheaper and our imports to them more expensive. The more they produce internally the less they care about the cost of importing things.

Again, it isn't clear to me how this makes them losers. Now if their currency free falls into zip, then yes... As it is the cheaper Yuan helps offset the cost of the import tariffs only helping their position while hurting our exporters. The same goes for the rest of the world. It makes it cheaper to buy Chinese verses American.

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2018, 04:22:34 am »
Keeping the Yuan artificially low was the primary complaint here for years. It made their exports cheaper and our imports to them more expensive. The more they produce internally the less they care about the cost of importing things.

Again, it isn't clear to me how this makes them losers. Now if their currency free falls into zip, then yes... As it is the cheaper Yuan helps offset the cost of the import tariffs only helping their position while hurting our exporters. The same goes for the rest of the world. It makes it cheaper to buy Chinese verses American.


The only fly in that ointmentm is us. WE are China's market. Without us their economy implodes.

There's nothing coming from DC to keep China from exporting elsewhere. They just took their act to the EU and were shown the door.

As for our exporters being hurt, the Trump object isn't to kill trade with China or anyone else but to kill Trade Wrecking Tariffs.

China's a house of cards. DC and the US can afford to play this hand.

All China has is Bluff. They will capitulate.

They don't have a choice.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 04:23:27 am by To-Whose-Benefit? »
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2018, 04:25:00 am »
The tariffs also make their goods more expensive, lowering demand and therefore the yuan.

With the dollar for now the world's reserve currency, global commodities are priced in dollars. This makes China's cost of buying crude goods go up.

Which squeezes their profit margins and puts pressure on their stock markets.
The Republic is lost.

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2018, 05:11:56 am »
@Free Vulcan

Now, once the dust settles and the goods flow without tariffs between us and the EU, and China gets it's theiving knuckles rapped, next up will be to get Japan onto the Honest side of the street.

They're a much worse offender than Canada or Mexico but they'll have to wait till China and their pet Nork are de fanged.
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In Vol 2 the weapons come out in a winner take all war on two fronts.

Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

http://wulfanson.blogspot.com

Offline jpsb

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2018, 07:30:58 am »
Keeping the Yuan artificially low was the primary complaint here for years. It made their exports cheaper and our imports to them more expensive. The more they produce internally the less they care about the cost of importing things.

Again, it isn't clear to me how this makes them losers. Now if their currency free falls into zip, then yes... As it is the cheaper Yuan helps offset the cost of the import tariffs only helping their position while hurting our exporters. The same goes for the rest of the world. It makes it cheaper to buy Chinese verses American.

The folks in China need to buy stuff too. A cheaper currency makes the average Joe in China
poorer.  Poor people are not happy people. You can't devalue your way to wealth. Without access
to the US market China is screwed since they did not develop a domestic market like they should
have.

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2018, 07:48:10 am »
I'm still missing something...

Chinese products are priced in Yuan. If the dollar buys more Yuan (the Yuan's value in dollars is less, hence cheaper) the price of a Chinese TV is less not more in dollars.

Now on the other hand if the Yuan is getting stronger, it takes more dollars to buy a Yuan and Chinese imports become more expensive. But these articles says the Yuan is getting weaker.

That's the basic econ theory.  I bought into it just long enough to make it through the test, but it never smelled right.

If the yuan gets weaker against the dollar, Chinese exports to the US become "cheaper".  In theory, and as long as we stop thinking too much right there.  However, this means that the Chinese are getting less dollars for their products, which means they can turn around and trade those dollars in for less of our stuff.  Magically, we get more of their stuff and we get less of their -- though they do get a bunch of little pictures of dead presidents and statesmen which fall in value every year, and have no real value until they are trade to someone for actual stuff.

But all that assumes that producers price their products based on the amount of XYZ currency they can get for them and not the amount of actual stuff they can get in return.  I think that's backwards.  Say a guy is willing to sweep a floor for an hour for enough money to buy a medium single topping pizza and a beer.  If suddenly he can only afford a couple slices for the same labor, he's not going to be cool with that just because he's getting the same (or more or less) actual currency, what he cares about is how much stuff he gets in return for his labor.  Companies are the same.

It seems to me what the basic econ theory ignores is what happens to prices in yuan when its value decreases.
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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2018, 10:13:12 am »
The folks in China need to buy stuff too. A cheaper currency makes the average Joe in China
poorer.  Poor people are not happy people. You can't devalue your way to wealth. Without access
to the US market China is screwed since they did not develop a domestic market like they should
have.

It only makes imports into China more expensive. It doesn't change what isn't imported.

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2018, 10:23:39 am »
You guys understand that not long ago everyone was bitching that China was manipulating their currency right?

That "manipulation" was to keep the Yuan lower against the dollar than it otherwise would have been. In doing so it made Chinese products cost less in dollars and American goods cost more in Yuan.

Now with a weaker Yuan you'all think that's just swell and it will decrease their exports and increase ours.

Dead wrong.

Offline Restored

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Re: Yuan Tumbles As China Rages At Washington's "Extortion, Demonization"
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2018, 11:31:40 am »
China is upset because they need our markets. They should play ball instead of whining.
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