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Offline mystery-ak

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Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« on: July 17, 2018, 07:35:50 pm »
Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation

He can’t separate the question of interference in the election from the question of his own legitimacy.
By Ramesh Ponnuru
July 17, 2018, 6:00 AM CDT

President Donald Trump’s behavior in Helsinki was both appalling and perfectly in character. He was, as he has been before, gullible or worse about Vladimir Putin’s lies. He treated the U.S. and Russia, again, as morally equivalent.

He was unwilling or unable, once more, to respond to a foreign adversary’s interference in our politics in the manner one would expect from the leader of a self-respecting nation. He refused, yet another time, to credit the unanimous conclusion of our intelligence services.

A lot of Republicans, even ones who have typically been in Trump’s corner, are criticizing his performance. Others are trotting out the usual excuses — Barack Obama did something similar, Trump’s voters won’t care about it, all the rest of the ones you know by heart by now — but these responses sound a little tinnier than usual.

People who have long been convinced that Trump is a Russian agent decided that Trump’s abject posture toward Putin in Helsinki proves their theory. Two prominent Democrats hinted at that possibility. I think a less extravagant explanation is available.

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https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-07-17/trump-s-russia-fixation-has-a-simple-explanation
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 07:50:48 pm »
Does Trump have a Russia obsession or does the media have a Russia obsession?  I think the media is driving this train.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 07:51:39 pm by Sanguine »
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 08:29:42 pm »
Count me as one who shares Trump's view that we're as much or more to blame than the Russians.   It is established that we have meddled in Russia's elections, and also helped to overthrow the pro-Russia regime in the Ukraine.   For the Russians, meddling in our elections is simply payback.   And as for the spying and hacking,  I'm sure we do the same. 

Putin's contempt for Hillary Clinton is well known.  It seems to me that Russia's goal wasn't to elect Trump as President (Russia was likely as shocked at the outcome the same as everyone else)  but rather to acquire leverage over President Clinton.   Trump needs to understand that the Dems (and their media) are mortified at what the Russians were trying to do,  to create a blackmail situation to be used against Hillary Clinton.   
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 08:30:32 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 08:31:21 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on July 17, 2018, 08:29:42 pm
Count me as one who shares Trump's view that we're as much or more to blame than the Russians.   It is established that we have meddled in Russia's elections, and also helped to overthrow the pro-Russia regime in the Ukraine.   For the Russians, meddling in our elections is simply payback.   And as for the spying and hacking,  I'm sure we do the same. 

Putin's contempt for Hillary Clinton is well known.  It seems to me that Russia's goal wasn't to elect Trump as President (Russia was likely as shocked at the outcome the same as everyone else)  but rather to acquire leverage over President Clinton.   Trump needs to understand that the Dems (and their media) are mortified at what the Russians were trying to do,  to create a blackmail situation to be used against Hillary Clinton.

Jazz, you're wrong.  Russia would try to meddle regardless of what we have or have not done. 
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2018, 08:34:21 pm »
Quote from: Sanguine on July 17, 2018, 07:50:48 pm
Does Trump have a Russia obsession or does the media have a Russia obsession?  I think the media is driving this train.
...and Trump, who is nothing if not media-savvy, is playing it like a Stradivarius.
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2018, 08:47:00 pm »
The Russians haven't forgotten Woodrow Wilson sending US troops to Vladivostok in 1918.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2018, 08:48:48 pm »
Quote from: Sanguine on July 17, 2018, 08:31:21 pm
Jazz, you're wrong.  Russia would try to meddle regardless of what we have or have not done.

I believe we have both acted in what we felt were our bests interests, for decades.

Many intrigue books have been based on spying, dating to at least the 1950s or before.

During the Cold War, the villains were the dastardly Soviets, and the white hats were the US and often our British cousins.


The idea the US had/have clean hands is naïve. The soviets have been very good at these activities, and we sought to be very good, too.

The USA via the CIA and others have sought to disrupt and influence local situations. A few examples include the 1950s in Iran, and Central America as well.

If Putin and Trump could reduce tensions, I am supportive, as with Reagan-Gorby in the 1980s. 
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2018, 09:10:21 pm »
Quote from: truth_seeker on July 17, 2018, 08:48:48 pm
I believe we have both acted in what we felt were our bests interests, for decades.

Many intrigue books have been based on spying, dating to at least the 1950s or before.

During the Cold War, the villains were the dastardly Soviets, and the white hats were the US and often our British cousins.


The idea the US had/have clean hands is naïve. The soviets have been very good at these activities, and we sought to be very good, too.

The USA via the CIA and others have sought to disrupt and influence local situations. A few examples include the 1950s in Iran, and Central America as well.

If Putin and Trump could reduce tensions, I am supportive, as with Reagan-Gorby in the 1980s.

I agree, TS.   I think Trump's "realpolitick" view of the world is practical and sensible;  it is not our place to change the Russians' affinity or tolerance for authoritarianism (which is based on their history) but rather to deal with reality of that authoritarianism and cut deals that work to our advantage.   
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2018, 09:14:33 pm »
I concur, it seems a bit "psychological", as if being smeared unfairly is how he feels. It takes away from his accomplishments and I do think, this whole "Russian Scandal" is concocted, at least, relative to business as usual with elections.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2018, 09:44:18 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on July 17, 2018, 09:10:21 pm
Russians' affinity or tolerance for authoritarianism (which is based on their history)  cut deals that work to our advantage.

Considering the possibilities the satellites have largely gained complete freedom, and prospered.

I have been surprised it worked out this way so far.

I served in W. Germany when both sides had nukes and spies etc.

Now BMWs are built in Leipzig (formerly East Germany)
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2018, 12:48:29 am »
Title and premise:
"Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation..."

Reality:
It's all those who are anti-Trump who have the "fixation on Russia".
Not Mr. Trump.

I pay as little attention to these "news articles" as I can, basically ignoring them.
I pay much more attention to the accomplishments of the Trump administration...
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Offline Victoria33

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2018, 01:08:49 am »
Trump can't let the election go; he is fixated on it and will stay on this until he dies as he does other fixations he has.
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Online Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2018, 02:41:20 am »
Quote from: Victoria33 on July 18, 2018, 01:08:49 am
Trump can't let the election go; he is fixated on it and will stay on this until he dies as he does other fixations he has.

Sure, whatever you say. The President's the one who's fixated on the 2016 election.   *****rollingeyes*****

After all he's the one who won't stop investigating the election and it's the President who won't stop traveling the world explaining to anyone who will listen why Hillary lost. 

It's time to buy a vowel @Victoria33 . 
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2018, 02:48:28 am »
Quote from: Victoria33 on July 18, 2018, 01:08:49 am
Trump can't let the election go; he is fixated on it and will stay on this until he dies as he does other fixations he has.

LOL. Yeah. I guess you don't have access to news sources. If you did you would see that every three minutes either Hitlary goes off on how the election was stolen from her, your hero Stupid Bobby manufactures some more leaks about so called "Russian Collusion" in the '16 election or the Rats go off on how Trump is illegitimate because he is a Putin puppet.

You are quite easily the most obtuse poster here. Keep up the good work.
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Offline DB

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2018, 03:29:35 am »
Quote from: Sanguine on July 17, 2018, 07:50:48 pm
Does Trump have a Russia obsession or does the media have a Russia obsession?  I think the media is driving this train.

The media clearly have an obsession with Russia. The problem is Trump feeds it instead of quieting it...
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Online Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump’s Russia Fixation Has a Simple Explanation
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2018, 03:38:28 am »
Quote from: DB on July 18, 2018, 03:29:35 am
The media clearly have an obsession with Russia. The problem is Trump feeds it instead of quieting it...

The media and their democrat overlords are on this 24/7 ... if the President was quiet, we'd be shouting "when is he going to fight back??!!".

Come on...lay the blame for this sh*t where it belongs, at the feet of America's domestic enemies.
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