« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses  (Read 1935 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« on: July 17, 2018, 10:04:35 pm »
Paul Manafort, former campaign manager for U.S. President Donald Trump, arrives at the U.S. Courthouse in Washington, D.C., U.S., on January 16, 2018.
Special Counsel Robert Mueller asked a judge to give immunity to five people who may testify at the bank-fraud trial starting next week against Paul Manafort, President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman.

Mueller didn’t identify the witnesses, who haven’t been charged. The five would invoke their constitutional right against self-incrimination and remain silent unless Judge T.S. Ellis III grants them immunity, prosecutors said Tuesday in a court filing in federal court in Alexandria, Virginia. Their names will be made public only if they are called to testify, according to the filing.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mueller-asks-manafort-judge-immunity-185408014.html
Logged
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,828
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2018, 12:37:17 am »
Granting FIVE people immunity to get one person?

Nah, it's not a witch hunt.
Logged
The Republic is lost.

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,788
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2018, 01:41:57 am »
Quote from: Free Vulcan on July 18, 2018, 12:37:17 am
Granting FIVE people immunity to get one person?

Nah, it's not a witch hunt.

I'm hoping the judge tells Mueller to go pound sand.  I know that is unlikely but I would love to see it.
Logged
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2018, 01:51:40 am »
I'm hoping some of our legal eagles can explain this one to me.  If I have this right, Mueller, the special counsel, was appointed because there was clear evidence of criminality and leaving it with the DOJ would have created a conflict of interest.  If Manafort is being prosecuted for crimes that occurred before he worked for Trump, which appears to be the case, why has Mueller not turned this back over to the DOJ to prosecute?
Logged

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2018, 02:02:23 am »
Quote from: Bigun on July 18, 2018, 01:41:57 am
I'm hoping the judge tells Mueller to go pound sand.  I know that is unlikely but I would love to see it.

After what happened during the "investigation" of Clinton's handling of confidential information I'd be very very careful granting any request for immunity this bunch makes.
Logged

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2018, 02:14:14 am »
Quote from: Sanguine on July 18, 2018, 01:51:40 am
I'm hoping some of our legal eagles can explain this one to me.  If I have this right, Mueller, the special counsel, was appointed because there was clear evidence of criminality and leaving it with the DOJ would have created a conflict of interest.  If Manafort is being prosecuted for crimes that occurred before he worked for Trump, which appears to be the case, why has Mueller not turned this back over to the DOJ to prosecute?


Ellis explains it in his ruling, without complicated legalese.  The prosecution showed how Manafort’s long-standing Ukrainian and Russian ties were pertinent to the scope of the investigation.  He concurred.

http://www.businessinsider.com/virginia-judge-ts-ellis-manafort-motion-dismiss-mueller-case-2018-6
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 02:16:10 am by edpc »
Logged
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2018, 02:20:32 am »
Quote from: Free Vulcan on July 18, 2018, 12:37:17 am
Granting FIVE people immunity to get one person?

Nah, it's not a witch hunt.


Perhaps it’s the prosecution’s way of showing how corrupt Manafort’s practices were.  One of the witnesses is likely his former son-in-law.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort-exclusive/exclusive-manaforts-former-son-in-law-cuts-plea-deal-to-cooperate-with-government-sources-idUSKCN1II2YM
Logged
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,828
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2018, 02:23:03 am »
Quote from: edpc on July 18, 2018, 02:20:32 am

Perhaps it’s the prosecution’s way of showing how corrupt Manafort’s practices were.  One of the witnesses is likely his former son-in-law.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort-exclusive/exclusive-manaforts-former-son-in-law-cuts-plea-deal-to-cooperate-with-government-sources-idUSKCN1II2YM

If you're going to give immunity to five people, it'd better be a very big fish. I don't think Manfort counts as that, other than his relationship to Trump.
Logged
The Republic is lost.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2018, 02:32:15 am »
Quote from: Free Vulcan on July 18, 2018, 02:23:03 am
If you're going to give immunity to five people, it'd better be a very big fish. I don't think Manfort counts as that, other than his relationship to Trump.


A few years back, they were willing to overlook Manafort to get to Yanukovych.  For whatever reason, he decided to continue doing illegal activities afterwards and tried to use his position as campaign manager to get back into that shady world.
Logged
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Frank Cannon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,097
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2018, 02:39:22 am »
Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses

I think it is inappropriate for Stupid Bobby to do this. First of all he is not a doctor and has no business giving people medical care. Secondly we have no idea whether these 5 people were not immunized when they were kids.
Logged

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2018, 03:03:51 am »
Quote from: Frank Cannon on July 18, 2018, 02:39:22 am
Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses

I think it is inappropriate for Stupid Bobby to do this. First of all he is not a doctor and has no business giving people medical care. Secondly we have no idea whether these 5 people were not immunized when they were kids.

Yes, but measles is a serious illness.
Logged

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2018, 10:15:27 am »
Logged
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,828
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2018, 12:35:33 pm »
Quote from: edpc on July 18, 2018, 02:32:15 am

A few years back, they were willing to overlook Manafort to get to Yanukovych.  For whatever reason, he decided to continue doing illegal activities afterwards and tried to use his position as campaign manager to get back into that shady world.

Which makes my point. The reason Manafort is now the big fish is because of that position as campaign manager for Trump. Mueller is telegraphing his intentions with this scheme.
Logged
The Republic is lost.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2018, 12:57:36 pm »
Quote from: Free Vulcan on July 18, 2018, 12:35:33 pm
Which makes my point. The reason Manafort is now the big fish is because of that position as campaign manager for Trump. Mueller is telegraphing his intentions with this scheme.


It also makes the point that Manafort has a long history of engaging in illegal activity, even through and after the election, and even after he knew he'd been under previous FBI scrutiny.  Whatever the intentions are with the prosecution, it only matters if Manafort actually cooperates and provides information they can corroborate.  He's not getting a deal on his useless word, alone.  If he does end up cooperating, watch how quickly he goes from being 'clearly a nice man,' as Trump described him on Monday, to being called the lying sack criminal he really is by Rudy and company.
Logged
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,828
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2018, 12:59:31 pm »
Quote from: edpc on July 18, 2018, 12:57:36 pm

It also makes the point that Manafort has a long history of engaging in illegal activity, even through and after the election, and even after he knew he'd been under previous FBI scrutiny.  Whatever the intentions are with the prosecution, it only matters if Manafort actually cooperates and provides information they can corroborate.  He's not getting a deal on his useless word, alone.  If he does end up cooperating, watch how quickly he goes from being 'clearly a nice man,' as Trump described him on Monday, to being called the lying sack criminal he really is by Rudy and company.

Which is not relevant to the central point of why is Mueller granting immunity to five people for a guy who is not a big fish except for one reason and one reason only.
Logged
The Republic is lost.

Offline jpsb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,141
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2018, 01:05:20 pm »
Quote from: Free Vulcan on July 18, 2018, 12:37:17 am
Granting FIVE people immunity to get one person?

Nah, it's not a witch hunt.

 :thumbsup:
Logged

Offline jpsb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,141
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2018, 01:08:40 pm »
Quote from: Sanguine on July 18, 2018, 01:51:40 am
I'm hoping some of our legal eagles can explain this one to me.  If I have this right, Mueller, the special counsel, was appointed because there was clear evidence of criminality and leaving it with the DOJ would have created a conflict of interest.  If Manafort is being prosecuted for crimes that occurred before he worked for Trump, which appears to be the case, why has Mueller not turned this back over to the DOJ to prosecute?

DOJ looked at this years ago and decided not to prosecute. Mueller is just dredging up an old case
to harass Manafort and pressure Manafort to flip on Trump. Mueller is scum.
Logged

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2018, 01:32:52 pm »
Quote from: Free Vulcan on July 18, 2018, 12:59:31 pm
Which is not relevant to the central point of why is Mueller granting immunity to five people for a guy who is not a big fish except for one reason and one reason only.


Mueller is not granting the immunity. He is requesting it from the judge. It's up to Ellis as to whether they'll get it or not. I'm going to suppose, as he did with the sealed indictment, the judge is going to request justification from the prosecution for this motion. Based on that, he'll either do it or he won't.
Logged
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,828
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2018, 02:37:51 pm »
Quote from: edpc on July 18, 2018, 01:32:52 pm

Mueller is not granting the immunity. He is requesting it from the judge. It's up to Ellis as to whether they'll get it or not. I'm going to suppose, as he did with the sealed indictment, the judge is going to request justification from the prosecution for this motion. Based on that, he'll either do it or he won't.

Which ignores the fact that Mueller still asked for it. Changes nothing.
Logged
The Republic is lost.

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,788
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2018, 02:41:10 pm »
Quote from: edpc on July 18, 2018, 01:32:52 pm

Mueller is not granting the immunity. He is requesting it from the judge. It's up to Ellis as to whether they'll get it or not. I'm going to suppose, as he did with the sealed indictment, the judge is going to request justification from the prosecution for this motion. Based on that, he'll either do it or he won't.

Asking for it is the same thing as granting it if the judge complies with your request!
Logged
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2018, 02:50:04 pm »
Quote from: edpc on July 18, 2018, 01:32:52 pm

Mueller is not granting the immunity. He is requesting it from the judge. It's up to Ellis as to whether they'll get it or not. I'm going to suppose, as he did with the sealed indictment, the judge is going to request justification from the prosecution for this motion. Based on that, he'll either do it or he won't.

I may be confusing Ellis with someone else, but isn't he the judge that (presumptively) leans left?  If so, he'll give Mueller whatever Mueller wants (I predict).

Logged
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline jpsb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,141
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2018, 02:56:21 pm »
Quote from: XenaLee on July 18, 2018, 02:50:04 pm
I may be confusing Ellis with someone else, but isn't he the judge that (presumptively) leans left?  If so, he'll give Mueller whatever Mueller wants (I predict).

You are confusing Ellis with the other judge that Manafort also has to face. A female appointed by Obama (IIRC). Ellis is a Reagan appointee and leans right.
Logged

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2018, 02:58:50 pm »
Quote from: XenaLee on July 18, 2018, 02:50:04 pm
I may be confusing Ellis with someone else, but isn't he the judge that (presumptively) leans left?  If so, he'll give Mueller whatever Mueller wants (I predict).


No, he's the judge that gave the prosecution a lecture back in May that had so many people giddy.  You may be thinking of Berman.  She's handling the case against Manafort in the DC district.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/05/04/federal-judge-in-manafort-case-says-muellers-goal-is-prosecution-or-impeachment-of-trump
Logged
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2018, 03:00:05 pm »
Quote from: jpsb on July 18, 2018, 02:56:21 pm
You are confusing Ellis with the other judge that Manafort also has to face. A female appointed by Obama (IIRC). Ellis is a Reagan appointee and leans right.

Oh.  (whew!)

Thanks!!!
Logged
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: Mueller Asks Manafort Judge To Immunize Five Witnesses
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2018, 03:01:31 pm »
Quote from: edpc on July 18, 2018, 02:58:50 pm

No, he's the judge that gave the prosecution a lecture back in May that had so many people giddy.  You may be thinking of Berman.  She's handling the case against Manafort in the DC district.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/05/04/federal-judge-in-manafort-case-says-muellers-goal-is-prosecution-or-impeachment-of-trump

Thanks!  Yeah, I think that name "Ellis" got me.   Subconsciously thinking of Keith Ellis, maybe?  lol

(must... get....coffee)
Logged
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »