Author Topic: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty  (Read 5998 times)

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Offline Emjay

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2018, 05:04:19 pm »
Bork was doomed regardless because of his connection to Watergate. Trump is looking for a quick appointment here. Save the big fight for after November.

@skeeter   I think the perception that Kavanaugh would be easier to confirm played a small part in this selection but there's not a darn thing wrong with that.  What's the point in nominating a problem selection when you have this fine man.

The religious freedom touted by @txradioguy is a weird thing to try to hang as a negative on Kavanaugh.  He is a devout Catholic and strong family man.

I'd love to know who @txradioguy would have supported wholeheartedly.  He's never said, to my knowledge.  I think he would attack anyone Trump nominated because of his Trump hate.
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2018, 05:07:05 pm »
@skeeter   I think the perception that Kavanaugh would be easier to confirm played a small part in this selection but there's not a darn thing wrong with that.  What's the point in nominating a problem selection when you have this fine man.

The religious freedom touted by @txradioguy is a weird thing to try to hang as a negative on Kavanaugh.  He is a devout Catholic and strong family man.

I'd love to know who @txradioguy would have supported wholeheartedly.  He's never said, to my knowledge.  I think he would attack anyone Trump nominated because of his Trump hate.

I doubt very seriously if @txradioguy ‘s sentiments on Trump are coloring his views of this pick.  If anything, it’s the other way around.

Just saying, not agreeing or disagreeing. 

Offline Emjay

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2018, 05:08:38 pm »
I doubt very seriously if @txradioguy ‘s sentiments on Trump are coloring his views of this pick.  If anything, it’s the other way around.

Just saying, not agreeing or disagreeing.

You may be right.  Not agreeing or disagreeing.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2018, 05:09:08 pm »

That you say that clearly proves beyond a doubt he or she is more versed in the law than you are counselor.

Recall what I said about  you the other day before the Mods removed it?  Still applies, bub.   
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2018, 05:14:14 pm »
@skeeter   I think the perception that Kavanaugh would be easier to confirm played a small part in this selection but there's not a darn thing wrong with that.  What's the point in nominating a problem selection when you have this fine man.

Agree. Things are beginning to shape up well for November, there's no reason to stir the pot with a candidate who might further polarize the left.

Besides, it'll be much more fun replacing Ginsberg or Breyer with an Amy Barrett.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2018, 05:34:26 pm »

The religious freedom touted by @txradioguy is a weird thing to try to hang as a negative on Kavanaugh.  He is a devout Catholic and strong family man.

Not weird if you look at how he's ruled and his justifications for those rulings.

Then it becomes troubling.


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I'd love to know who @txradioguy would have supported wholeheartedly.  He's never said, to my knowledge.  I think he would attack anyone Trump nominated because of his Trump hate.

I said very clearly several times who my choices were.  Amy Barrett...Bill Pryor...Priscilla Owen.  And if they could convince her to come out of retirement I think former DC Court of Appeals Justice Janice Rodgers-Brown would have made an excellent choice.

And you can stuff the "Hate Trump" bullsh*t right back from the place it came.  If you paid half as much attention to what I actually and post around here as opposed to what you create from whole cloth in your little narrow mind...you wouldn't say such stupid things about me.

Because it's pretty darn obvious you've been asleep at the switch in some of my defenses of Trump policy and decisions lately...specifically on immigration.

Now run along and play victim again because I said mean words to you
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2018, 05:35:18 pm »
Recall what I said about  you the other day before the Mods removed it?  Still applies, bub.

From a raving Liberal who seems to have a very thin grasp of the law...I take it as a compliment.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline INVAR

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2018, 06:00:59 pm »
From a raving Liberal who seems to have a very thin grasp of the law...I take it as a compliment.

That, and the fact that what we all would really like to say about him would not only earn a permanent banning on this board, but possibly earn criminal indictments as well.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Oceander

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2018, 06:03:50 pm »
From a raving Liberal who seems to have a very thin grasp of the law...I take it as a compliment.

:bigsilly:

Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2018, 06:06:22 pm »
Does the government have a "compelling interest in providing women access to contraception", as Kavanaugh apparently believes to the chagrin of this anonymous author?   

Why would the government have such a compelling interest?   To reduce the number of abortions, of course. 

Access to contraception is the greatest single weapon we have in the fight against abortion.   I guess if the government has no compelling interest in that, it certainly ought to have no interest whatsoever in banning abortion.

The anonymous author's head's up his arse.   

That many of us on this board find it desirable to reduce the number of abortions does not mean the government's compelling interest in providing contraception to women is rooted in reducing the number of abortions. 

But whatever is the basis of the government's compelling interest in providing contraception to women, that same compelling government interest must also apply to men, else we do not have equality before the law.  Are condoms provided to men at taxpayer expense?

I don't know how women access contraception at taxpayer expense; it might well be the case that those same channels are in fact available to men.
James 1:20

Oceander

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2018, 06:07:36 pm »
That many of us on this board find it desirable to reduce the number of abortions does not mean the government's compelling interest in providing contraception to women is rooted in reducing the number of abortions. 

But whatever is the basis of the government's compelling interest in providing contraception to women, that same compelling government interest must also apply to men, else we do not have equality before the law.  Are condoms provided to men at taxpayer expense?

I don't know how women access contraception at taxpayer expense; it might well be the case that those same channels are in fact available to men.

Absolutely not true. 

Offline TomSea

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2018, 06:19:22 pm »
There is no evidence whatsoever that providing more contraception leads to fewer abortions but what else would we expect to hear? Or if there is such evidence,  there is counter-evidence.

The first people spouting this nonsense will be the first people against abstinence as an alternative.

More secular idealistic blather.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 06:26:00 pm by TomSea »

Offline Emjay

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2018, 06:25:51 pm »

I said very clearly several times who my choices were.  Amy Barrett...Bill Pryor...Priscilla Owen.  And if they could convince her to come out of retirement I think former DC Court of Appeals Justice Janice Rodgers-Brown would have made an excellent choice.

And you can stuff the "Hate Trump" bullsh*t right back from the place it came.  If you paid half as much attention to what I actually and post around here as opposed to what you create from whole cloth in your little narrow mind...you wouldn't say such stupid things about me.

Because it's pretty darn obvious you've been asleep at the switch in some of my defenses of Trump policy and decisions lately...specifically on immigration.

Now run along and play victim again because I said mean words to you

@txradioguy    You run along and figure out more ways to discredit a good man because he wasn't your first choice.  I have a feeling you would have found fault with anyone Trump selected.

As far as mean words go, You have no power to hurt me.  Don't flatter yourself. 
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2018, 06:28:40 pm »
@txradioguy    You run along and figure out more ways to discredit a good man because he wasn't your first choice.  I have a feeling you would have found fault with anyone Trump selected.

As far as mean words go, You have no power to hurt me.  Don't flatter yourself.

I usually do not agree with you @Emjay   ; but I agree, it is their right to speak but many just speak divisively and that then, in turn, causes some blow back, put down politician X and I might in error, criticize politician Y, even though, I have actually been a big defender and supporter of Y in the past. Again, this talk is just divisive and some have been too caustic in the first place to seriously listen to.

And again, I've defended really everyone seriously since Dole, Bush, McCain and Romney.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 06:29:33 pm by TomSea »

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2018, 06:34:31 pm »
That many of us on this board find it desirable to reduce the number of abortions does not mean the government's compelling interest in providing contraception to women is rooted in reducing the number of abortions. 

But whatever is the basis of the government's compelling interest in providing contraception to women, that same compelling government interest must also apply to men, else we do not have equality before the law.  Are condoms provided to men at taxpayer expense?

I don't know how women access contraception at taxpayer expense; it might well be the case that those same channels are in fact available to men.

In the case of the ACA,  an ACA-compliant health plan must provide no-cost preventive health services.   These include such things as annual check-ups and children's vaccinations, but also include contraceptives.   No-cost preventive services are assumed to be good policy because they prevent more expensive health conditions that the health plan would have to pay for.  They are justified, in short, on the theory that healthier members mean health plans save money.  In the case of contraceptives,  the expensive health condition that contraception is supposed to avoid is childbirth.   

Of course, since health plans don't cover abortions, the more cynical and cost effective step would be NOT to cover contraceptives, and direct women instead to the local abortion clinic!

Here's my bottom line - neither the right nor the left supports abortion per se (as opposed to the right, or liberty, to choose abortion).   Conservatives counsel abstinence, or persuasion for pregnant women to do the right thing.  Liberals counsel inexpensive contraception.  I don't have any studies to cite,  but I bet my bottom dollar that the left's approach prevents more unwanted pregnancies and abortions than the right's does.   Of course, the true answer is to utilize all ideas that work, short of government coercion.   Abstinence, persuasion, effective and affordable contraception - it all adds up to every child being wanted and cherished.     
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2018, 06:46:37 pm »
   
Here's my bottom line - neither the right nor the left supports abortion per se (as opposed to the right, or liberty, to choose abortion).   Conservatives counsel abstinence, or persuasion for pregnant women to do the right thing.  Liberals counsel inexpensive contraception.  I don't have any studies to cite,  but I bet my bottom dollar that the left's approach prevents more unwanted pregnancies and abortions than the right's does.   Of course, the true answer is to utilize all ideas that work, short of government coercion.   Abstinence, persuasion, effective and affordable contraception - it all adds up to every child being wanted and cherished.     

@Jazzhead   I don't know what century you're living in but most conservatives believe in any and all means of avoiding pregnancy unless one wants to be a parent.

The problem is that way too many people don't bother with that and just get abortions.  It is a stain on our country that we allow that.

Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2018, 06:50:20 pm »
In the case of the ACA,  an ACA-compliant health plan must provide no-cost preventive health services.   These include such things as annual check-ups and children's vaccinations, but also include contraceptives.   No-cost preventive services are assumed to be good policy because they prevent more expensive health conditions that the health plan would have to pay for.  They are justified, in short, on the theory that healthier members mean health plans save money.  In the case of contraceptives,  the expensive health condition that contraception is supposed to avoid is childbirth.   

Of course, since health plans don't cover abortions, the more cynical and cost effective step would be NOT to cover contraceptives, and direct women instead to the local abortion clinic!

Here's my bottom line - neither the right nor the left supports abortion per se (as opposed to the right, or liberty, to choose abortion).   Conservatives counsel abstinence, or persuasion for pregnant women to do the right thing.  Liberals counsel inexpensive contraception.  I don't have any studies to cite,  but I bet my bottom dollar that the left's approach prevents more unwanted pregnancies and abortions than the right's does.   Of course, the true answer is to utilize all ideas that work, short of government coercion.   Abstinence, persuasion, effective and affordable contraception - it all adds up to every child being wanted and cherished.     

In spite of all the grief you catch on this board @Jazzhead I respect your intelligence too much to let you get away with that evasion.  You have not addressed my point.

Do men and women have *the same* rights to practice self-determination in their reproductive freedom, or do women have rights that men simply do not have, including access to taxpayer-funded contraception and the unilateral right to abort the man's child or hold him financially accountable for that child, either without his consent?

And if the latter, how is this equality before the law?
James 1:20

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2018, 06:51:45 pm »
@txradioguy    You run along and figure out more ways to discredit a good man because he wasn't your first choice.  I have a feeling you would have found fault with anyone Trump selected.

I don't know what's more disturbing...the fact you blatantly lie like that or the fact you honestly believe your own line of BS.

Either way it shows a stunning and purposeful lack of knowledge of what I post her and what I believe.

It's just easier for you to live in a self imposed ignorant bliss to avoid having to a) actually read posts I make on here that prove what you state about me is a lie and b) insulates you from having to admit your wrong.

It's easier for you to create your fantasy world and believe that the people on TBR that don't agree with you just hate Trump 24/7.

Quote
As far as mean words go, You have no power to hurt me.  Don't flatter yourself.

Ha!  That's funny coming from one of the biggest purveyors of snark and "mean words" on TBR.

I wouldn't have even noticed you here had you not out of nowhere jumped in and lied so blatantly about my beliefs about the President and made the specious claims I'd hate any choice he made and that I just "hate Trump" no matter what he does.

You started this...don't get pissy because someone pushed back against your twisted passive aggressive behavior.


The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline INVAR

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2018, 07:25:10 pm »
In spite of all the grief you catch on this board @Jazzhead I respect your intelligence too much to let you get away with that evasion.  You have not addressed my point.

Do men and women have *the same* rights to practice self-determination in their reproductive freedom, or do women have rights that men simply do not have, including access to taxpayer-funded contraception and the unilateral right to abort the man's child or hold him financially accountable for that child, either without his consent?

And if the latter, how is this equality before the law?

Oooooh..... ouch!

Hypocrisy and the fact he sees some as more equal before the law than others, is a hallmark of his posting history here.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2018, 07:25:27 pm »
In spite of all the grief you catch on this board @Jazzhead I respect your intelligence too much to let you get away with that evasion.  You have not addressed my point.

Do men and women have *the same* rights to practice self-determination in their reproductive freedom, or do women have rights that men simply do not have, including access to taxpayer-funded contraception and the unilateral right to abort the man's child or hold him financially accountable for that child, either without his consent?

And if the latter, how is this equality before the law?

You seriously do not understand what equality before the law is.  It is not about some sort of Procrustean sameness of benefits received. 

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2018, 07:25:39 pm »
@Jazzhead   I don't know what century you're living in but most conservatives believe in any and all means of avoiding pregnancy unless one wants to be a parent.

The problem is that way too many people don't bother with that and just get abortions.  It is a stain on our country that we allow that.

I know that, @Emjay, but it is typically liberals who support access to inexpensive or free contraceptives (such as with the ACA, passed without a single Republican vote). 

Now there's a lot that's wrong with the ACA (including the lack of choice to provide a health plan without free preventive services),  but the impact of free or inexpensive contraceptives is to encourage their use.   And when contraceptives are used, abortions are avoided.  I know that the membership here views liberals as akin to the devil's spawn, but I know plenty of liberals who detest abortion as much as you and I do.   They genuinely think that free contraceptives are an important tool to reduce the number of abortions (even as they argue that the right must continue to be legal and available.)

If the two warring sides in this nation could come together for the common good - and the saving of lives - it would be wonderful, IMO.   
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2018, 07:28:01 pm »
In spite of all the grief you catch on this board @Jazzhead I respect your intelligence too much to let you get away with that evasion.  You have not addressed my point.

Do men and women have *the same* rights to practice self-determination in their reproductive freedom, or do women have rights that men simply do not have, including access to taxpayer-funded contraception and the unilateral right to abort the man's child or hold him financially accountable for that child, either without his consent?

And if the latter, how is this equality before the law?

:2popcorn:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2018, 07:28:42 pm »
You seriously do not understand what equality before the law is.  It is not about some sort of Procrustean sameness of benefits received.

Then simply state clearly that some classes of people can inherently have more rights than others simply based on who they are, but all are still equal before the law.
James 1:20

Oceander

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2018, 07:30:23 pm »
Then simply state clearly that some classes of people can inherently have more rights than others simply based on who they are, but all are still equal before the law.

You explain why equality before the law requires that the government give out free condoms to men if it gives out free contraceptives to women. That’s just stupid. 

Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Brett Kavanaugh Has A Troubling Record On Religious Liberty
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2018, 07:36:02 pm »
You explain why equality before the law requires that the government give out free condoms to men if it gives out free contraceptives to women. That’s just stupid.

"No, you're stupid" is not an argument.

If equality before the law does not require that men and women be treated equally, then there is no rational basis for the 19th Amendment.  If men and women do not have to be treated equally then why should the government require that the races, or people of different sexual preference, be treated equally?
James 1:20