Author Topic: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’  (Read 5749 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2018, 06:22:41 pm »
Mueller's investigation any foreign ties to any Trump associate, even on things that happened after Trump was elected. That is nowhere near the mission.


Except the Flynn ties to Turkey were to secure his cooperation into his contacts with Kislyak, leading back to Russia. 

The Nader angle was in regards to the Seychelles meeting he brokered between Erik Prince and Kirill Dmitriev, leading again back to Russia.

The investigation into Kushner's finances stemmed from his previous contacts with the sanctioned bank VEB, whose HQ is in Moscow.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Online Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,887
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2018, 06:32:20 pm »

Except the Flynn ties to Turkey were to secure his cooperation into his contacts with Kislyak, leading back to Russia. 

The Nader angle was in regards to the Seychelles meeting he brokered between Erik Prince and Kirill Dmitriev, leading again back to Russia.

The investigation into Kushner's finances stemmed from his previous contacts with the sanctioned bank VEB, whose HQ is in Moscow.

You're going to find those ties everywhere you look, with anyone and everyone who does business overseas. It's a global economy, and the Russians are players in it, as are all sorts of countries Mueller is looking into, like China, Israel, UAE, and a host of others. That's the nature of globalization.

Proving election collusion from that is a totally different thing however.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 06:33:00 pm by Free Vulcan »
The Republic is lost.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2018, 07:04:17 pm »
You're going to find those ties everywhere you look, with anyone and everyone who does business overseas. It's a global economy, and the Russians are players in it, as are all sorts of countries Mueller is looking into, like China, Israel, UAE, and a host of others. That's the nature of globalization.

Proving election collusion from that is a totally different thing however.


I never bought into the notion there was actual collusion in the sense that people in the campaign contacted foreign operatives and said, “Hey, let’s get together and win this election.”  The Trump Tower meeting was bad optics, but is not proof of collusion in itself. Now, had they gotten the “dirt“ they were looking for and openly worked to remove sanctions once in office, you’d have a problematic quid pro quo.

IMO, they made some bad hiring decisions and rookie political mistakes during the campaign.  That’s not a crime, but the obfuscation and unwillingness to own up to it invited the current scrutiny.   Trump doesn’t easily admit to mistakes and surrounds himself with family or sycophants who will not challenge him.  Eventually, that led to the investigation of what I believe will be Trump’s biggest problem - Michael Cohen.

Few people doubt that Trump had to make unsavory deals with people as a real estate developer in New York and various corners of the world. For decades, that was business as usual and worked for him. Unfortunately, I think some of those decisions and thinking bled into politics. Since he was never challenged on it, he and those around him figured it would remain so.  Given the amount of material collected in the FBI seizure, that’s where we may find wrongdoing, ultimately.


I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2018, 07:05:41 pm »

I never bought into the notion there was actual collusion in the sense that people in the campaign contacted foreign operatives and said, “Hey, let’s get together and win this election.”  The Trump Tower meeting was bad optics, but is not proof of collusion in itself. Now, had they gotten the “dirt“ they were looking for and openly worked to remove sanctions once in office, you’d have a problematic quid pro quo.

IMO, they made some bad hiring decisions and rookie political mistakes during the campaign.  That’s not a crime, but the obfuscation and unwillingness to own up to it invited the current scrutiny.   Trump doesn’t easily admit to mistakes and surrounds himself with family or sycophants who will not challenge him.  Eventually, that led to the investigation of what I believe will be Trump’s biggest problem - Michael Cohen.

Few people doubt that Trump had to make unsavory deals with people as a real estate developer in New York and various corners of the world. For decades, that was business as usual and worked for him. Unfortunately, I think some of those decisions and thinking bled into politics. Since he was never challenged on it, he and those around him figured it would remain so.  Given the amount of material collected in the FBI seizure, that’s where we may find wrongdoing, ultimately.




:thumbsup:

Offline Concerned

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,848
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2018, 07:11:49 pm »

I never bought into the notion there was actual collusion in the sense that people in the campaign contacted foreign operatives and said, “Hey, let’s get together and win this election.”  The Trump Tower meeting was bad optics, but is not proof of collusion in itself. Now, had they gotten the “dirt“ they were looking for and openly worked to remove sanctions once in office, you’d have a problematic quid pro quo.

IMO, they made some bad hiring decisions and rookie political mistakes during the campaign.  That’s not a crime, but the obfuscation and unwillingness to own up to it invited the current scrutiny.   Trump doesn’t easily admit to mistakes and surrounds himself with family or sycophants who will not challenge him.  Eventually, that led to the investigation of what I believe will be Trump’s biggest problem - Michael Cohen.

Few people doubt that Trump had to make unsavory deals with people as a real estate developer in New York and various corners of the world. For decades, that was business as usual and worked for him. Unfortunately, I think some of those decisions and thinking bled into politics. Since he was never challenged on it, he and those around him figured it would remain so.  Given the amount of material collected in the FBI seizure, that’s where we may find wrongdoing, ultimately.

 :word:  @edpc

I've said all along that I never thought there'd be evidence tying Trump to "collusion" with Russia.  As you noted, "the obfuscation and unwillingness to own up to it invited the current scrutiny" whether it was "forgotten meetings", failure to disclose, revised security forms, or whatever.  Those are incompetent but probably not criminal.  It's the "other" things that are discovered along the way that could ultimately mean trouble for him IMO.
I adore facts and data and abhor lies and liars.

Online Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,887
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2018, 07:22:42 pm »

I never bought into the notion there was actual collusion in the sense that people in the campaign contacted foreign operatives and said, “Hey, let’s get together and win this election.”  The Trump Tower meeting was bad optics, but is not proof of collusion in itself. Now, had they gotten the “dirt“ they were looking for and openly worked to remove sanctions once in office, you’d have a problematic quid pro quo.

IMO, they made some bad hiring decisions and rookie political mistakes during the campaign.  That’s not a crime, but the obfuscation and unwillingness to own up to it invited the current scrutiny.   Trump doesn’t easily admit to mistakes and surrounds himself with family or sycophants who will not challenge him.  Eventually, that led to the investigation of what I believe will be Trump’s biggest problem - Michael Cohen.

Few people doubt that Trump had to make unsavory deals with people as a real estate developer in New York and various corners of the world. For decades, that was business as usual and worked for him. Unfortunately, I think some of those decisions and thinking bled into politics. Since he was never challenged on it, he and those around him figured it would remain so.  Given the amount of material collected in the FBI seizure, that’s where we may find wrongdoing, ultimately.

So you're saying all the Russian collusion stuff hyped by the media, Dems, Obama, and the bureaucracy Swamp were just bait and switch gotcha politics?

Let's not forget the collusion from the other side to witch hunt on Trump, collusion IMO far worse than anything Trump is accused of.
The Republic is lost.

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2018, 07:33:36 pm »
So you're saying all the Russian collusion stuff hyped by the media, Dems, Obama, and the bureaucracy Swamp were just bait and switch gotcha politics?

Looks like its unanimous.

Great. Now we can all get together and focus on stuff that actually matters.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2018, 07:43:36 pm »
So you're saying all the Russian collusion stuff hyped by the media, Dems, Obama, and the bureaucracy Swamp were just bait and switch gotcha politics?

Let's not forget the collusion from the other side to witch hunt on Trump, collusion IMO far worse than anything Trump is accused of.


No, I’m saying ‘collusion’ is not in the letter appointing Mueller.  Investigating people who were contacting Russians making overtures is.  We know from his communications, at least Manafort was.  He was using his position as campaign manager to re-establish contact with Oleg Deripaska and offer him ‘briefings.’ 

He’s in debt to the oligarch for millions, so you’d have to question what information would be of value to offer.  This kind of situation is something Trump has publicly said he would really want to know about. That seems kind of disingenuous, now, since he’s calling the treatment of Manafort unfair.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2018, 07:45:05 pm »
Or else what?

Insofar as our three co-equal branches leaves them so weak, it reveals a flaw in our system.

In otherwise Congress committees have "oversight" of justice and intelligence agencies, but no real power to correct misbehavior.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,887
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2018, 07:50:34 pm »

No, I’m saying ‘collusion’ is not in the letter appointing Mueller.  Investigating people who were contacting Russians making overtures is.  We know from his communications, at least Manafort was.  He was using his position as campaign manager to re-establish contact with Oleg Deripaska and offer him ‘briefings.’ 

He’s in debt to the oligarch for millions, so you’d have to question what information would be of value to offer.  This kind of situation is something Trump has publicly said he would really want to know about. That seems kind of disingenuous, now, since he’s calling the treatment of Manafort unfair.

No but Russian interference into the 2016 election is. Unfortunately Rosenstein gave Mueller a near blank check to do so, which Mueller is using to his full benefit.
The Republic is lost.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2018, 08:04:34 pm »
No but Russian interference into the 2016 election is. Unfortunately Rosenstein gave Mueller a near blank check to do so, which Mueller is using to his full benefit.


The fact they attempted to do so is not in dispute.  The former CIA Director, now Secretary of State, even said so.  Interestingly enough, some of the individuals and corporate entities in Mueller’s ‘ham sandwich’ indictment are under current sanction by this administration for those activities.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Fantasywriter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 372
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2018, 08:16:58 pm »

That depends on what you mean.  If you're trying to appeal to a lowest common denominator bar thumper slurring "that's right!" you would be correct.  If you're someone with the slightest inkling of how the legal system works, you understand it's absurd, since a good part of the investigation centers on Manafort.  His legal team has been filing weak motion after motion in both cases, getting them dismissed, appealing them, and dragging out the process.  Also, Rosenstein has no influence on when the trials are scheduled.  One is for July and the other is September.  He cannot magically make time pass any faster than it does.  When the day arrives, he has no control over what nonsense the defense will do to drag things out during trial.  As a former prosecutor, Gowdy is well aware of this and is being a disingenuous drama queen for the sake of a sound bite.


The Leftists at The Hill are already working to soften the blow:



June 26, 2018 - 09:00 AM EDT
Prepare to be disappointed with Russia investigation conclusion



http://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/394117-prepare-to-be-disappointed-with-russia-investigation-conclusion




Online Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,887
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2018, 08:19:58 pm »

The fact they attempted to do so is not in dispute.  The former CIA Director, now Secretary of State, even said so.  Interestingly enough, some of the individuals and corporate entities in Mueller’s ‘ham sandwich’ indictment are under current sanction by this administration for those activities.

Which feels like a bait and switch. 'Well we're trying to find Russian election interference, but we're placing no limits on you, so if you find anything else go after it.'

Problem with that is you can create a web of appearances with indictments and other prosecutor games with a willing media ready to suck it up and spin it to influence elections.

Then you have the problem that many of the people investigating need to be investigated themselves.
The Republic is lost.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2018, 08:40:28 pm »
Which feels like a bait and switch. 'Well we're trying to find Russian election interference, but we're placing no limits on you, so if you find anything else go after it.'

Problem with that is you can create a web of appearances with indictments and other prosecutor games with a willing media ready to suck it up and spin it to influence elections.

Then you have the problem that many of the people investigating need to be investigated themselves.


Assigning political motives to Mueller’s team and the obvious misconduct of investigators in 2016 doesn’t negate the fact some bad actors were doing things during the campaign that did not involve any ‘deep state’ actions.  One thing I believe we can agree upon is the whole thing is a sordid mess that bears investigation and few will be satisfied with the conclusion.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Fantasywriter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 372
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2018, 09:01:37 pm »

Assigning political motives to Mueller’s team and the obvious misconduct of investigators in 2016 doesn’t negate the fact some bad actors were doing things during the campaign that did not involve any ‘deep state’ actions.  One thing I believe we can agree upon is the whole thing is a sordid mess that bears investigation and few will be satisfied with the conclusion.


That reminds me of Obama's comment:

"One thing we can all agree on is that the cops acted stupidly."

It was pure projection.  Obama believed it so he could only assume everyone else did too.

I don't agree with the Russian probe at all. Mueller is a dirty cop with a sordid history of railroading innocent people.  Read Goodlatte's expose. It will make you puke chunks.

Now if Hillary or Podesta or any other ***Leftist*** bad actors were right now on the receiving end of an investigation as relentless and exhaustive as the Witch Hunt, I would not complain. If both sides are receiving equal scrutiny then there's a chance justice will prevail.  But this one-sided, biased, politically driven hack investigation stinks like a month old whale carcass. 

So no, we do not all agree.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2018, 09:14:28 pm »
Now if Hillary or Podesta or any other ***Leftist*** bad actors were right now on the receiving end of an investigation as relentless and exhaustive as the Witch Hunt, I would not complain.


Maybe you should take that up with the guy ultimately in charge of the Justice Department who has said after the election he didn't want to hurt the Clintons and 'lock her up' was great for the campaign, but now, we don't care.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Fantasywriter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 372
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2018, 09:35:41 pm »

Maybe you should take that up with the guy ultimately in charge of the Justice Department who has said after the election he didn't want to hurt the Clintons and 'lock her up' was great for the campaign, but now, we don't care.


Do you recall Sessions' sniveling, shameless, cowardly,  disgraceful, weak, disgusting excuse for refusing to appoint a second SC?

A paraphrase will suffice.

[And no, I don't blame Trump for appointing Sessions.  I blame Sessions for wholesale misrepresenting himself.  Sessions had a vast number of conservatives fooled. That's not on Trump; that is squarely and solely on two-faced Jeff.]

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2018, 12:05:14 am »

Do you recall Sessions' sniveling, shameless, cowardly,  disgraceful, weak, disgusting excuse for refusing to appoint a second SC?

A paraphrase will suffice.

[And no, I don't blame Trump for appointing Sessions.  I blame Sessions for wholesale misrepresenting himself.  Sessions had a vast number of conservatives fooled. That's not on Trump; that is squarely and solely on two-faced Jeff.]


I do remember and I also recall last summer, when the guy who recommended Sessions as AG, Rudy Giuliani, said he 'made the right decision' under DOJ rules.  Rudy further said one month ago that he would have considered recusal himself, had he been AG.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Fantasywriter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 372
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2018, 12:24:20 am »

I do remember and I also recall last summer, when the guy who recommended Sessions as AG, Rudy Giuliani, said he 'made the right decision' under DOJ rules.  Rudy further said one month ago that he would have considered recusal himself, had he been AG.


A swing and a miss.

Here is the cowardly Sessions in his own pathetic words:


'“I do not think we need to willy-nilly appoint special counsels,” Sessions said. “As we can see, it can really take on a life of its own.”
He added that the Department of Justice (DOJ) needs to “be disciplined and stay within our classical procedure and rules” before opening further investigations.'


Translation, it's okay to subject Trump to an out of control witch hunt, but lefty Jeff is too noble, too princely to subject anyone on the Left to the same treatment.  The 'honorable' [bol] Sessions is fine with throwing Trump to the wolves,  but he will protect Democrats from a similar fate at all costs.

Spit.


http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/385047-sessions-mueller-probe-has-taken-on-life-of-its-own


Offline Emjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,687
  • Gender: Female
  • Womp, womp
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Emjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,687
  • Gender: Female
  • Womp, womp
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2018, 12:32:06 am »
Gowdy may be toothless most of the time, but he can have his moments when he's in his swimming pool, i.e. hearings. 'Finish it the hell up' was absolutely perfect.

I like Gowdy and he was in his element in these hearings.  Really tough.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Emjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,687
  • Gender: Female
  • Womp, womp
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2018, 12:34:15 am »
Gowdy never had the authority to indict anyone.  That authority has always rested with DOJ, not with him.  What he could do was dig, issue subpoenas, hold hearings, and try to publicize as much of the crap that was going on as possible.  That's what he did.

Exactly, Major, and to choose this day when Gowdy was just great to dump on him is just so typical of some people.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Emjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,687
  • Gender: Female
  • Womp, womp
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2018, 12:38:01 am »

That reminds me of Obama's comment:

"One thing we can all agree on is that the cops acted stupidly."

It was pure projection.  Obama believed it so he could only assume everyone else did too.

I don't agree with the Russian probe at all. Mueller is a dirty cop with a sordid history of railroading innocent people.  Read Goodlatte's expose. It will make you puke chunks.

Now if Hillary or Podesta or any other ***Leftist*** bad actors were right now on the receiving end of an investigation as relentless and exhaustive as the Witch Hunt, I would not complain. If both sides are receiving equal scrutiny then there's a chance justice will prevail.  But this one-sided, biased, politically driven hack investigation stinks like a month old whale carcass. 

So no, we do not all agree.

We certainly do not all agree @Fantasywriter but I agree with what you said here.  Sums it up perfectly.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Fantasywriter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 372
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2018, 12:41:10 am »
We certainly do not all agree @Fantasywriter but I agree with what you said here.  Sums it up perfectly.


 :beer:

Offline jpsb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,141
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gowdy On Special Counsel: ‘Finish It The Hell Up’
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2018, 12:43:21 am »
Did I miss the indictments that came out of Gowdy's 2.5 year investigation?

Congress can not indict, all congress can do is reveal to the American people the crap that is going
on in DC and else where. Gowdy is very good at doing that. He would make a great Attorney General
I'd trade him for (POS) Sessions in a New York second.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 12:55:52 am by jpsb »