Author Topic: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'  (Read 17812 times)

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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2018, 10:52:50 am »
A statement from Ted Cruz on this.

On the question of whether a president can pardon himself, we're seeing an abundance of knee-jerk partisanship and dishonest journalism. Virtually every Dem is saying "of course not, the president can't pardon himself (mostly because we hate Trump)." On the other hand, some Rs are saying "of course the president can."
 
If we were actually focusing on the Constitution, the answer would be more complicated. The text of the Constitution provides, the President "shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment." That text has no limitation on WHOM can be pardoned (although nobody can be pardoned from impeachment or for non-federal offenses).
 
However, in the 1970s, the Department of Justice did issue a legal opinion that the president cannot pardon himself, relying on the principle that nobody can be the judge in his own case. That legal principle has a long and venerable history, but it is not reflected in the constitutional text.
 
Whether the Department of Justice opinion is right is an open legal question, with scholars on both sides of the political spectrum disagreeing in good faith. 
 
Some dishonest journalists have attacked me for "taking 18 seconds" to answer -- without acknowledging that I was walking through the Capitol, late to a meeting, and simply ignoring a question that a reporter had called out at me (as senators do every single day in the Capitol). When reporters chased me down the hall, and another asked the question again, I chose to answer.
 
Yet others (see https://bit.ly/2M0mf6e) have focused on my criticisms of President Obama's abuse of executive power, suggesting that it is somehow hypocritical not to oppose Trump's assertion of executive power. They cite a law review article I wrote saying that Obama's executive amnesty was illegal, and that the pardon power did not justify it. What those attacks miss is that it is clear that (1) pardons must be retrospective (looking to crimes in the past), not prospective (pardoning future crimes), and (2) they must be addressed to specific persons, not generic categories of offenses. Both are straightforward legal propositions; neither is implicated because they do not concern WHOM can be pardoned.
 
Finally, other partisan journalists have attacked me for saying "that is not a constitutional issue I have studied, so I will withhold judgment at this point." That was true then, and is true now. This is not a question one should answer based on knee-jerk partisanship, as opposed to careful constitutional analysis.  As for me, I still haven't studied the issue at that level of detail, and I don't intend to -- because this is nothing more than an academic debate. At this point, none of the investigations has demonstrated any criminal conduct needing to be pardoned, as much as those who hate the president might wish otherwise.

If BillMartin and I can’t quiet the absurd “Trump thinks he is a dictator” crazies, perhaps Ted Cruz’s superb answer above will...assuming thes Trump-haters can even allow reason and common sense to overcome blind hatred. In their eyes, introspection and simple acknowledgement of the intent of the Constitution is hypocritical and tyrannical. Ted beautifully highlight the insanity of such a position. Well said Mr. Cruz...what great things you could do as an SCJ!
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2018, 11:47:22 am »
If BillMartin and I can’t quiet the absurd “Trump thinks he is a dictator” crazies, perhaps Ted Cruz’s superb answer above will...assuming thes Trump-haters can even allow reason and common sense to overcome blind hatred. In their eyes, introspection and simple acknowledgement of the intent of the Constitution is hypocritical and tyrannical. Ted beautifully highlight the insanity of such a position. Well said Mr. Cruz...what great things you could do as an SCJ!

Superlative, judicious statement by Sen. Cruz.   He rightly recognizes that the real concern should be the frothing at the mouth, partisan reactions to Trump's statement.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #102 on: June 05, 2018, 12:08:12 pm »
A statement from Ted Cruz on this.

Sen Cruz was already told what to think by tweet.  He needs to get with the program.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #103 on: June 05, 2018, 12:14:05 pm »
A statement from Ted Cruz on this.

Wow, to think we could have gotten this rhetorical skill, rather than idiotic tweets.
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Online libertybele

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #104 on: June 05, 2018, 12:16:42 pm »
Ted's response was excellent ....."This is not a question one should answer based on knee-jerk partisanship, as opposed to careful constitutional analysis.  As for me, I still haven't studied the issue at that level of detail, and I don't intend to -- because this is nothing more than an academic debate. At this point, none of the investigations has demonstrated any criminal conduct needing to be pardoned, as much as those who hate the president might wish otherwise."

That's it in a nutshell.  None of the investigations has proven that President Trump has done anything wrong.  Yet we have the MSM and others in all of their glorious hate-filled vendetta against the President on a witch hunt.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #105 on: June 05, 2018, 12:23:59 pm »
Wow, to think we could have gotten this rhetorical skill, rather than idiotic tweets.

Yes Ted Cruz has a brilliant mind and good morals.  Unfortunately he lacked the charisma and willingness/ ability to play dirty.  Which is apparently what's needed to win the white house.

Cruz is a class act.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #106 on: June 05, 2018, 12:28:42 pm »
The constitution of the United States predates the department of justice by 83 years. I doubt a department of justice legal opinion is the last word on this issue.

Offline Restored

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #107 on: June 05, 2018, 12:32:14 pm »
This non-event is just more bread and circuses to keep the sheeple's minds off the real events in the world.
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Offline jpsb

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #108 on: June 05, 2018, 12:37:25 pm »
Yes Ted Cruz has a brilliant mind and good morals.  Unfortunately he lacked the charisma and willingness/ ability to play dirty.  Which is apparently what's needed to win the white house.

Cruz is a class act.

Cruz ran the dirtiest campaign I ever saw. I lost a lot of respect for him once I realized what a dirty
lying phony he was.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #109 on: June 05, 2018, 12:41:38 pm »
This non-event is just more bread and circuses to keep the sheeple's minds off the real events in the world.
Agreed...same thing with the Eagles dis-invitation.  Anything is better than the tightening noose held by Mueller.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #110 on: June 05, 2018, 12:43:51 pm »
Cruz ran the dirtiest campaign I ever saw. I lost a lot of respect for him once I realized what a dirty
lying phony he was.
plus his dad killed JFK and his wife is a dog.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #111 on: June 05, 2018, 12:57:46 pm »
"that is not a constitutional issue I have studied - Sen Ted Cruz"

I'm awarding 5 points to President Trump for making this possible.

Offline Restored

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #112 on: June 05, 2018, 01:19:58 pm »
Cruz ran the dirtiest campaign I ever saw. I lost a lot of respect for him once I realized what a dirty
lying phony he was.

He's worse than Hitlertm
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Offline Restored

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #113 on: June 05, 2018, 01:27:33 pm »
Agreed...same thing with the Eagles dis-invitation.  Anything is better than the tightening noose held by Mueller.

I turned off the news after the election except for the BBC and the occasional riot. The American media finally quit pretending to be unbiased. If anything important does happen, they act annoyed because it diverts us from their nonsense.
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #114 on: June 05, 2018, 01:47:30 pm »
The American media finally quit pretending to be unbiased.
They may have admitted it to themselves but not to their consumers.  Other than that I agree with your post.  I really liked the observation about the media getting annoyed because their narrative gets hijacked by important events. 
I wish I had the will power to get out of the whole sham, I can only last a few days to week offline.  The thing is the circus is so entertaining, and the bread ain't that bad either.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #115 on: June 05, 2018, 01:51:46 pm »
They may have admitted it to themselves but not to their consumers.  Other than that I agree with your post.  I really liked the observation about the media getting annoyed because their narrative gets hijacked by important events. 
I wish I had the will power to get out of the whole sham, I can only last a few days to week offline.  The thing is the circus is so entertaining, and the bread ain't that bad either.

@Once-Ler
You should try the veal.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #116 on: June 05, 2018, 01:55:49 pm »
@driftdiver, good statement from Cruz.  Do you have a link for that?

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #117 on: June 05, 2018, 02:05:12 pm »
@driftdiver, good statement from Cruz.  Do you have a link for that?

I pulled it off his facebook page. 
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #118 on: June 05, 2018, 02:08:01 pm »
He seems to have edited his facebook as i cant find the post.  however he also posted the content to twitter in a series of tweets


https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1003848737205243904

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Offline jpsb

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #119 on: June 05, 2018, 02:11:29 pm »
He's worse than Hitlertm

Godwin's law, you lose.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #120 on: June 05, 2018, 02:13:18 pm »
He seems to have edited his facebook as i cant find the post.  however he also posted the content to twitter in a series of tweets


https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1003848737205243904

Thanks, DD.

Offline Restored

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #121 on: June 05, 2018, 02:26:38 pm »
Godwin's law, you lose.

I was quoting the Bible.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #122 on: June 05, 2018, 03:21:03 pm »
Agreed...same thing with the Eagles dis-invitation.  Anything is better than the tightening noose held by Mueller.

Tightening noose? Mueller doesn’t even have a shoestring much less a rope from which to weave a noose. Anything of real consequence would have resulted in explosive leakage long ago...they got nothing. Except it and move on OR just late the gate flow through you until you are fully on the Dark side....and by dark side I mean specifically the Left.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #123 on: June 05, 2018, 03:21:23 pm »
He rightly recognizes that the real concern should be the frothing at the mouth, partisan reactions to Trump's statement.

Trump keeps chumming the water with his stupid ass tweets, refusing to avoid the appearance of evil to drive the media and Leftist sharks into a feeding frenzy.

So I got no sympathy for Trump.  He's the guy off the stern chucking fish heads into the drink.

I assert this is all engineered chaos for entertainment's sake anyway.

I'm more amused and interested in the Trumpsplaining justifications for his statement when had Obama said the same thing Trump tweeted, their heads would have exploded in outrage.

But it's okay when Trump does it, and they will explain to all of us simpletons why it is good and right that he make such asinine statements.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
« Reply #124 on: June 05, 2018, 03:25:22 pm »
Trump keeps chumming the water with his stupid ass tweets, refusing to avoid the appearance of evil to drive the media and Leftist sharks into a feeding frenzy.



@INVAR
And you keep taking the bait


 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
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