Real Conservatives Refuse To Kneel Before Their Liberal Overlords

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

And btw, @To-Whose-Benefit? ... That is the predictable end, regardless.

Right you are.

Only way I see of getting this problem dealt with is Firing as many Govt Myrmidons as we can.

It's got to be shrunk. By 90 t0 95%, . . . for starters.

[Cyber Liberty]

What ever could you mean? Everyone knows it was the bigliest win in all of winning! A victory unrivaled in all of history! And oh, by the way, soooo much better than Reagan. 

Perzackly.

[Cyber Liberty]

Right you are.

Only way I see of getting this problem dealt with is Firing as many Govt Myrmidons as we can.

It's got to be shrunk. By 90 t0 95%, . . . for starters.

An idea I can get behind.

(You sent me to Google for "Myrmidons."  Kudos!)

[roamer_1]

My Point is there is nothing to be gained in attempting to overthrow the Republican Party with a Pure Conservative Party. By lending a Philosophical shoulder I Mean, . . . . even if it's only words posted here, . . . . . Trying to reform the existing Party through replacing the moderate hacks in it.

@To-Whose-Benefit?
There's nothing to be gained either way. Thirty years of doing what you suggest has given me nothing but knives in my back.

Not a bit different from continual 'flailing about in a drunken stupor' that's nothing more than "I'm Taking My Ball and Going Home because your Orange God sucks and You Trumplicans are too stupid to understand how stupid you are", . . . . . . without ever Going Home.

Oh, but I DID go home.

I did not vote for Trump to marry my daughter and I've had more than too much of this road apple that there's no difference between the Parties which shoved DJT and HRC at us, . . . . . as if that justifies "Follow Me, I Know The Way, or I'll rescue you all (except the Trumplicans of course), one more time with yet another empty I'm Taking My Ball".

I don't give a shit how you justify voting for Tump. I don't care at all.

I do care that this brand of populism is trying to abscond with the Conservative Mantle. And I will fight that with every drop of blood I have. Just as I did against Bushs' 'kinder gentler' and 'compassionate' form.

You have attached yourself to a movement that doesn't even know what Conservatism means, nor the basis of its principles. That you have done so, does not require the same from me.

[roamer_1]

Right you are.

Only way I see of getting this problem dealt with is Firing as many Govt Myrmidons as we can.

It's got to be shrunk. By 90 t0 95%, . . . for starters.

And you intend to do that with a big spending NYC Liberal at the helm? Good luck.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

There's nothing to be gained either way. Thirty years of doing what you suggest has given me nothing but knives in my back.

Oh, but I DID go home.


I don't give a shit how you justify voting for Tump. I don't care at all.

I do care that this brand of populism is trying to abscond with the Conservative Mantle. And I will fight that with every drop of blood I have. Just as I did against Bushs' 'kinder gentler' and 'compassionate' form.

You have attached yourself to a movement that doesn't even know what Conservatism means, nor the basis of its principles. That you have done so, does not require the same from me.

I'm sensing you've read my sarc. as referring to you personally. It is not.

And yes, I've got more knives than I can count sticking out the back of my neck too from 40 years of this Gargantua of a Govt with it's damnable benevolence.

As for attaching myself to this movement, I'm not forgetting the NRA had to take POTUS to the woodshed and set him straight on gun control, or a host of other complaints with him. Porkulous? Appointing Woody Johnson as our Ambassador to the U.K.? That looked like a tit for tat with JNJ to get prescription drug prices lowered. Ain't happened. Ain't going to. He got played and we got played.

My blood's still a good 20 degrees colder than it should be.

What I'm attached to is Firing Govt workers bloodsuckers wholesale and I'm seeing a tiny, tiny bit of it. No where near enough but still more than we'd have got under Shrillary.

As for Fighting, we don't have a 3rd choice. It's done at the polls or it's done with arms.

And the 2nd option would be suicide, win or lose.

I do know what Conservatism is.

I also know what trying to lead an infantry platoon into 1945 Berlin Without Ike, Patton, and Bradley at my side would have accomplished.

[INVAR]

Refusing substantive questions while repeating that you have have Other plans so we're done talking, is not going to influence people to see it your way and join you.

I'm not interested in influencing avatars online to join me in what I am doing locally.  And as I've said - no one on this board is going to be influencing anyone to change their positions on anything.  So I'm not interested in tossing pearls just to have them trampled underfoot by those who have repeatedly told us that our positions and principles are losers, irrelevant and worse.

WHAT, Are your other plans? Ideals, no matter how lofty, are not Plans.

My plans are already being implemented.  I bid you all the luck you'll need to continue practicing insanity to your heart's content within the confines of the box you've limited yourself to.   I want nothing to do with the Trumplican Party or the Oligarchy it is part and parcel of.   But you go right ahead and enjoy thinking you are making progress by doing the same thing over and over and over again.

Without huge voting support (big enough to defeat Both the Democrats AND the Republicans) you're left with an armed, violent insurrection/revolution, and the people you've kissed off will set the Police/National Guard on you.

Then let it come.  Let's fight and get it over with.

My Point is there is nothing to be gained in attempting to overthrow the Republican Party with a Pure Conservative Party. By lending a Philosophical shoulder I Mean, . . . . even if it's only words posted here, . . . . . Trying to reform the existing Party through replacing the moderate hacks in it.

You are welcome to continue practicing insanity and ignore the rules changes made at the last two Conventions that eliminate any grassroots challenge on the national level and pretend your 'Philosophical shoulder' is not as despised by your party bosses and leaders as it is in the Democrat party.

None so blind and all that.

This is not fighting. This is flailing about in a drunken stupor.

Some of us spent the better part of 30 years in the trenches in hostile areas knocking on doors for your party and peoples - with nothing to show for it except being told to shut up, sit down, vote or get out of the party.

So - we're done.  You are welcome to sail on the new Democrat Party running as Republicans boat and convince yourself that you can correct the course by voting for more of the same.  Knock yourself out.

Not a bit different from continual 'flailing about in a drunken stupor' that's nothing more than "I'm Taking My Ball and Going Home

With luck the Trumplican party will be able to persuade a whole lot of liberals and moderate liberals and not-ready-for-full-Marxism Leftists to the GOP to grow their voting bloc.  And you can go ahead and convince yourself that you are slowly moving your intrepid party to the right in imperceptible margins.

The rest of us took our balls and went where we think the principles that govern us are best served.

[Victoria33]

The rest, is to not play by their rules and make plans for the preservation of your liberty.

@INVAR

You and I did that and continue to do it.
To others: Don't depend on government to save you, least of all Trump.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@INVAR

You're not interested in influencing Avatars online.

Then why do you keep coming back here continually doing just that with ghost carrots about 'rescuing' True Conservatives with whatever you've got that's so super secret you don't dare let it out of the bag, much less crow about it to attract supporters?

If you really want to fight it out you'll need at least 10% of the population. Not to win but to Hope for a negotiated settlement. You got them lined up, signed up, armed with real weapons and trained up? Of course you don't or you'd already be in irons and the biggest media circus of the last 100 years. Those ghouls would love to have a right wing "extremist" with a Brigade strength militia training to overthrow the Govt.

The only way you'll survive even your 1st real fight is if the Guard or the Army chokes on the thought of massacring a bunch of idiots.

You have a plan. Everybody has a plan. And we're all here bitching to each other after they didn't work out.

Are you and your Fight It Out prepared to deal with just 1 Air National Guard A-10?

How about 1 Attack Copter?

With 1 Gun?

! No longer available

Even if you somehow managed to assemble, train, and hide a half dozen Brigades you'd probably just be surrounded and starved into submission. 

The people you're going to Fight It Out with do NOT have to engage you to defeat you, 100 out of 100 times.

And who are these people you're going to Fight It Out with?

The U.S. Military?

And you have the Unmitigated GALL to draw your Fight It Out line, here, on Memorial Day weekend?

[Smokin Joe]

Conservatives in the abstract versus getting something done. It's easy to claim any belief when your claim is to the purest, pie-in-the-sky, ain't-gonna-happen version. Getting something done, moving in the right direction, is not so easy.

You have to get first downs to get to the goal line. Some people have their eyes on that 10 yards, some of us won't take our eyes off the goal line. As long as the former group doesn't forget that the first down is just a step along the way and not the goal, we can work together, but we will continue to remind all that the end zone is the real objective.

[Smokin Joe]

@INVAR

You and I did that and continue to do it.
To others: Don't depend on government to save you, least of all Trump.

I can only count on one source for salvation. I count those people I completely trust on the toes of one hand, knowing full well there are few who will not sell their mothers for a crust of bread when things get tough. My clothes will be appropriately worn and baggy, and I can do 'scruffy' well enough and be comfortable with it after years of working in remote locations with primitive facilities. I have worked until my hands bled, gone a week without food, ad learned a fair amount of 'bush' medicine. There is always more to learn, and where I can, to teach.  I may not live to see that need for those skills, but they can live on in others.

[INVAR]

Then why do you keep coming back here continually doing just that with ghost carrots about 'rescuing' True Conservatives with whatever you've got that's so super secret you don't dare let it out of the bag, much less crow about it to attract supporters?

What I do in the meat world is my business, but I will say that we have had much success locally in getting fed-up Conservatives out of the Republican Party.

I'm not leading anything - so I'm not in the business of accruing a following.  I'm not interested in the chief seats.  I prefer to wash feet.

If you really want to fight it out you'll need at least 10% of the population.

Wow, you went from saying I'm not influencing avatars online to suggesting that because I am not attracting supporters I want to raise an army to start an armed insurrection?

Really?  You decided to gin that up out of thin air there pal?

Not to win but to Hope for a negotiated settlement.

If we ever reach a point of open conflict - I'm perfectly aware that history is not too kind to the remnant that attempts to hold onto what is being replaced by the hand of new government. 

The only way you'll survive even your 1st real fight is if the Guard or the Army chokes on the thought of massacring a bunch of idiots.

If we've reached the point that applauding using the National Guard and the Army to massacre American citizens and laugh at 'them idiots' who refuse to comply with government tyranny- then I submit that death will be preferable to a life in chains to paraphrase Patrick Henry.

Or should we ridicule his sentiments too?

You have a plan. Everybody has a plan. And we're all here bitching to each other after they didn't work out.

My plans no longer involve enabling the existing Corruptocracy.

Are you and your Fight It Out prepared to deal with just 1 Air National Guard A-10?

If we are at that point, the question I have to answer is if I am prepared to accept subjugation to a government iron fist or accept a mass grave?  History tends to teach us that those are usually the choices a people have when their government becomes despotic or when mass movements become ravenous bloodbaths.

The people you're going to Fight It Out with do NOT have to engage you to defeat you, 100 out of 100 times.

Do you think we are ignorant of what despotic regimes have done to their own people they intend to subjugate or eradicate? 

And who are these people you're going to Fight It Out with?

The U.S. Military?

And you have the Unmitigated GALL to draw your Fight It Out line, here, on Memorial Day weekend?

No, that is something you have done all by yourself - out of thin air on this thread - simply because I no longer subscribe to the political solution you say I must be obeisant.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

I'm not interested in influencing avatars online to join me in what I am doing locally.  And as I've said - no one on this board is going to be influencing anyone to change their positions on anything.  So I'm not interested in tossing pearls just to have them trampled underfoot by those who have repeatedly told us that our positions and principles are losers, irrelevant and worse.

My plans are already being implemented.  I bid you all the luck you'll need to continue practicing insanity to your heart's content within the confines of the box you've limited yourself to.   I want nothing to do with the Trumplican Party or the Oligarchy it is part and parcel of.   But you go right ahead and enjoy thinking you are making progress by doing the same thing over and over and over again.

Then let it come.  Let's fight and get it over with.

You are welcome to continue practicing insanity and ignore the rules changes made at the last two Conventions that eliminate any grassroots challenge on the national level and pretend your 'Philosophical shoulder' is not as despised by your party bosses and leaders as it is in the Democrat party.

None so blind and all that.

Some of us spent the better part of 30 years in the trenches in hostile areas knocking on doors for your party and peoples - with nothing to show for it except being told to shut up, sit down, vote or get out of the party.

So - we're done.  You are welcome to sail on the new Democrat Party running as Republicans boat and convince yourself that you can correct the course by voting for more of the same.  Knock yourself out.

With luck the Trumplican party will be able to persuade a whole lot of liberals and moderate liberals and not-ready-for-full-Marxism Leftists to the GOP to grow their voting bloc.  And you can go ahead and convince yourself that you are slowly moving your intrepid party to the right in imperceptible margins.

The rest of us took our balls and went where we think the principles that govern us are best served.

Your words, not mine.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@INVAR

"I submit that death will be preferable to a life in chains to paraphrase Patrick Henry.

Or should we ridicule his sentiments too?"

Your Words, not mine.

Henry refused to attend the Constitutional Convention because he felt that even that much Govt was anathema to Liberty, . . . . this, at a time when George III had walked away from subjugating the colonies because Washinton et all had made it more expensive for him than he thought they were worth. Washington had not won a conclusive victory. He did not Subjugate and Occupy England.

The Colonies were flat broke, tired of war, and wide open to being invaded, conquered and subjugated by other European powers.

Henry's sentiments are a red herring in this thread.

[RoosGirl]

Your words, not mine.

To be fair, you were the one that said you would set the National Guard on him, so...

[roamer_1]

I'm sensing you've read my sarc. as referring to you personally. It is not.

@To-Whose-Benefit?
I am not prone to taking things personally... But neither shall I be blind to my inclusion in the aggregate. I agree with my fellows.

And yes, I've got more knives than I can count sticking out the back of my neck too from 40 years of this Gargantua of a Govt with it's damnable benevolence.

Show me ~ONE~ lasting win for Conservatism in my lifetime. Just one. You cannot. A record that bad is not by luck. It is by design. Republicans are no friends to Conservatives.

What I'm attached to is Firing Govt workers bloodsuckers wholesale and I'm seeing a tiny, tiny bit of it. No where near enough but still more than we'd have got under Shrillary.

Riiiiight. Everybody is leaping for joy because he turned the handle open on a garden hose to drain the swamp... Nevermind the 3T$ firehose he turned on that's filling the swamp. 

As for Fighting, we don't have a 3rd choice. It's done at the polls or it's done with arms.

And the 2nd option would be suicide, win or lose.

Well it ain't gonna be any better tomorrow.

I do know what Conservatism is.

Well rounded too, with a hard bend toward civil-libertarianism.

I also know what trying to lead an infantry platoon into 1945 Berlin Without Ike, Patton, and Bradley at my side would have accomplished.

Then our doom is already before us. May your chains rest lightly on your shoulders. I will be going another way.

[driftdiver]

Anyone who thinks a civil war or armed insurrection will result in a return to our Constitutional Republic is someone who needs to read more history.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

History proved Washington to be correct and Henry to be wrong.


A weak and broke, deep in debt Confederation of Colonies

Shay's Rebellion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays'_Rebellion

Shays' Rebellion was an armed uprising in Massachusetts (mostly in and around Springfield) during 1786 and 1787. Revolutionary War veteran Daniel Shays led four thousand rebels (called Shaysites) in an uprising against perceived economic and civil rights injustices. In 1787, the rebels marched on the United States' Armory at Springfield in an unsuccessful attempt to seize its weaponry and overthrow the government.

The rebellion took place in a political climate where reform of the country's governing document, the Articles of Confederation, was widely seen as necessary. The events of the rebellion served as a catalyst for the calling of the U.S. Constitutional Convention and ultimately the shape of the new government.[1]

The shock of Shays' Rebellion drew retired General George Washington back into public life, leading to his two terms as the United States' first President.[1] The exact nature and consequence of the rebellion's influence on the content of the Constitution and the ratification debates continues to be a subject of historical discussion and debate.


Whiskey Rebellion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion


Then England, whom Washington had Not conclusively defeated but only driven off came back and burned the White House in 1814.

War of 1812

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Washington

[Right_in_Virginia]

@To-Whose-Benefit?
Show me ~ONE~ lasting win for Conservatism in my lifetime. Just one. You cannot. A record that bad is not by luck. It is by design. Republicans are no friends to Conservatives.

Oh, palease get yourself out of the victim trap.  If conservatism hasn't had one lasting win it's either because  American voters don't want what "conservatism" is selling ~OR~ "conservatives" do a piss poor job of explaining their positions.

Spend some time figuring it out.  I suspect the problem stems from a combination of both.

[driftdiver]

Oh, palease get yourself out of the victim trap.  If conservatism hasn't had one lasting win it's either because  American voters don't want what "conservatism" is selling ~OR~ "conservatives" do a piss poor job of explaining their positions.

Spend some time figuring it out.  I suspect the problem stems from a combination of both.

@Right_in_Virginia
piss poor would be an improvement. 

As seen around here you aren't a "real" conservative if you've ever compromised on anything.   The real ones tend to sit on their mountain tops looking down on everyone else in this Constitutional Republic.

[roamer_1]

Oh, palease get yourself out of the victim trap.  If conservatism hasn't had one lasting win it's either because  American voters don't want what "conservatism" is selling ~OR~ "conservatives" do a piss poor job of explaining their positions.

Spend some time figuring it out.  I suspect the problem stems from a combination of both.

@Right_in_Virginia
Pure bullshit. Every Republican platform since 1980 has been more or less the same - and catered to Conservatives, in the main. And every one of those mealy-mouthed bastards goes full-on Conservative when they come home to campaign.

The difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Democrats actually do what they say they are going to do - They serve their base.

Upthread I asked for ~ONE~  single, lasting victory that the Republicans delivered to Conservatives. Just one in my lifetime.

Now think of all the gains made by liberals as delivered by the Democrats.

Liberalism isn't winning on it's merit. It is winning because it has no opposition. You think on that and figure it out.

[INVAR]

Your words, not mine.

And why exactly did I write those words there pal?

Because YOU SAID:

Without huge voting support (big enough to defeat Both the Democrats AND the Republicans) you're left with an armed, violent insurrection/revolution, and the people you've kissed off will set the Police/National Guard on you.

To which I replied, 'Then let it come.  Let's fight and get it over with'.

You're the guy who introduced into this discussion, using the military to massacre civvies who do not vote correctly.

If we have arrived at that place where using A-10s and tanks to massacre those who do not vote correctly - then obviously that is a sign of what time it is.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

And why exactly did I write those words there pal?

Because YOU SAID:
To which I replied, 'Then let it come.  Let's fight and get it over with'.

You're the guy who introduced into this discussion, using the military to massacre civvies who do not vote correctly.

If we have arrived at that place where using A-10s and tanks to massacre those who do not vote correctly - then obviously that is a sign of what time it is.

And how many vociferously hostile scatalogical references have you previously invoked against this POTUS, defacto implying that those who find anything to recommend him are no better?

I've asked you more than once to enlighten us about your Master Plan. No specifics yet but crowing about helping/taking/leading Conservatives out of the Republican Party. If that's it, . . . . . .

What type of True Conservatism are you going Fight for through increasing the Democrats odds of winning elections?

If that reduces me to your label of a "Trumsplican" (A term I can't even find a definition of at the Online Slang Dictionary) that's your prerogative.


"Dread To Tread"?

If I changed my Borgnine avatar to this:



and my cant towards "Bring It On You Pieces of ^^^^" would that make me a 'True Conservative' in your estimation?

Would that cement my Bona Fides as someone who even has any Idea of what Conservative or Civil Libertarian means?

THIS is all your 3rd way is going to get you and the True Conservatives you've 'rescued'.

! No longer available

(Edmond O'Brien's screed at the end)

[driftdiver]

@Right_in_Virginia
Pure bullshit. Every Republican platform since 1980 has been more or less the same - and catered to Conservatives, in the main. And every one of those mealy-mouthed bastards goes full-on Conservative when they come home to campaign.


Liberalism isn't winning on it's merit. It is winning because it has no opposition. You think on that and figure it out.

Because conservatives would rather fight amongst themselves.  They won't accept a partial win, or anything which moves the ball incrementally in their favor.  No, it must be a grand slam or its not worth supporting.

[roamer_1]

Because conservatives would rather fight amongst themselves.  They won't accept a partial win, or anything which moves the ball incrementally in their favor.  No, it must be a grand slam or its not worth supporting.

NO! You've won NOTHING. NOTHING in better than THIRTY YEARS. There has been no incremental ANYTHING. There has been N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

But you'll giggle like school girls and bend over for a NYC liberal who throws you a handful of EOs and $3T increase in spending.