New York Time: Democrats and NeverTrumpers “Quietly Align” to Meet, Scheme Ways of Defeating Republi

[Emjay]

   I deal with Trumpers in my real life, Family included, as I do here, @Emjay, with respect and a lot of 'shaking my head'.

I know you have avid Trumpers in your family, corbe, and, frankly, I get a kick out of that.

I was just wondering if you had to associate with Trumpers in your job.

[roamer_1]

Thank you @roamer_1 for the thoughtful reply. 

For the millionth time, I do not regard Trump as a messiah.  I regard him as the only person right now who is keeping the evil forces out of the White House and out of running the country, as they feel is their due.

@Emjay
 

[corbe]

I know you have avid Trumpers in your family, corbe, and, frankly, I get a kick out of that.

I was just wondering if you had to associate with Trumpers in your job.

    Absolutely @Emjay, though I'm mostly Retired, the few Customers I kept, all of my Family and my few Friends realize and accept  my Trump 'apathy' and readily engage in political discussion all with mutual respect, same as here. 
   I would be the first to admit I have a lazy, fallback plan that delights me so ~ Troll the Trumpers, if I can get them to be as miserable as I am, I win!

[INVAR]

@Emjay
 

Obviously dimwittedness incapacitates the ability of people to recognize when they confirm something that they deny in the same sentence.

[roamer_1]

Obviously dimwittedness incapacitates [...]

I don't consider @Emjay dimwitted. In days past, I have enjoyed her wit and her pique. Like most Trumpeteers, I consider her to be gravely deceived, and in the throes of a certain suspension of disbelief. 

[...] the ability of people to recognize when they confirm something that they deny in the same sentence.

That much is apparent on its face. Or so it seems to me.

[corbe]

@Emjay @corbe  Also, it aligns with the ol' wellworn saw, the alleged Cruz supporters, often don't even support the views of Fred Cruz.  People get flack just for being more aligned to Cruz than his alleged supporters.

   @TomSea I just noticed your Signature and with all due respect, Ted also said this.
   

"I'm going to do something I haven't done for the entire campaign, for those of you all who've traveled with me, all across the country. I'm going to tell you what I really think of Donald Trump," Cruz said. "This man is a pathological liar. He doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. He lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth." And Cruz added, "The man is utterly amoral. Morality does not exist for him."

   Was he lying then or now?
   Asking for a Friend.

   *full compliance with Net Neutrality laws

[TomSea]

   @TomSea I just noticed your Signature and with all due respect, Ted also said this.
       Was he lying then or now?
   Asking for a Friend.

   *full compliance with Net Neutrality laws

@corbe
So you're saying Ted Cruz lies sometimes? That he didn't support or campaign for Trump in 2016 or would not support him in 2020? They held a rally together in Washington DC.

[corbe]

   Unlike Trump who was born with the character flaw, @TomSea, Ted's a politician, he Lies, I'm just saying it's not in his DNA as the aforementioned.

   I guess that makes Ted somewhat of a Populist also, @Mesaclone

[Sanguine]

   Unlike Trump who was born with the character flaw, @TomSea, Ted's a politician, he Lies, I'm just saying it's not in his DNA as the aforementioned.

   I guess that makes Ted somewhat of a Populist also, @Mesaclone

No, he didn't lie.  Both of the things he said can and are true.

Sheesh, not this stupid thread hijack....again.

[240B]

But resist we much. We must, and we will much- about that- be committed...

Spoken like a true NeverTrumper.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CifYWxJXaI

Funny stuff.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_jY5sAK4yc

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Your statement warrants no sarcasm, as it is quite simply true on its face. These folks are being forced to reveal their unholy alliance because Trump has them....the deep state AND the far Left...on their heels politically. The "institutions" they have spent decades warping into implements of anti-democratic rule...creating a sort of Oligarchic control intended to "guide" and "restrain" what they see as the erratic Petit Bourgeois tendencies of democracy...are coming unraveled.

The NT Republicans and the Leftists differ ideologically in some ways, but they agree that the nation should be governed by an educational elite who "know better" than the rest of the nation...they inherently do not believe in the wisdom of the Plebs. In fact, the mere prospect terrifies them. In their view, the simplistic Plebs should stand back as the Leftist elites do intellectual battle with the Rightist elites...and then simply accept the outcome of the struggle between their "betters".

So, they are rallying to one another to bring the still formidable resources of the tottering deep state...and they will use their primary weapons (a wildly liberal media establishment, their moles and allies in the letter agencies of government, and the vast funding that has always moved their agenda forward...from a range of Socialist elites across the globe) to retake the reins of government.

All my life I've scoffed at conspiracy theories...and rightly so for the most part. But one conspiracy holds true...and quite frankly has sought to influence and control modern democracy since it arose in England...and that is this coalition of intellectual elites and wealthy "nobility" seeking to mitigate and control the political power of the middle and lower classes (Honestly, you can see the same struggle going on in the Roman Republic as the Plebs and Patricians dueled for power...but I digress).  These folks simply have been and still are brazenly pulling the strings in our intelligence agencies (at the highest levels, not the rank and file), in our media, in our universities, etcetera...and they are formidable. And NOW they are more dangerous than they've ever been....because they are genuinely afraid.

An outsider has somehow forced his way on to the throne and has enough support from the Plebs to actually govern in their interests...and our modern form of upper nobility, the Deep State if you will, is both furious and afraid. And they will do anything and everything to stop this man...they would wage nuclear war and burn this whole structure to the ground before the cede any of their hard earned "elite" place in society and governance to the riff-raff (us).

Thank God everyman Donald Trump is looking out for you...the little guy.

[sneakypete]

Hmmm... strange bedfellows.  Or are they?   

@Right_in_Virginia

Nope,Globalists,one and all.

[sneakypete]

Your statement warrants no sarcasm, as it is quite simply true on its face. These folks are being forced to reveal their unholy alliance because Trump has them....the deep state AND the far Left...on their heels politically. The "institutions" they have spent decades warping into implements of anti-democratic rule...creating a sort of Oligarchic control intended to "guide" and "restrain" what they see as the erratic Petit Bourgeois tendencies of democracy...are coming unraveled.

The NT Republicans and the Leftists differ ideologically in some ways, but they agree that the nation should be governed by an educational elite who "know better" than the rest of the nation...they inherently do not believe in the wisdom of the Plebs. In fact, the mere prospect terrifies them. In their view, the simplistic Plebs should stand back as the Leftist elites do intellectual battle with the Rightist elites...and then simply accept the outcome of the struggle between their "betters".

So, they are rallying to one another to bring the still formidable resources of the tottering deep state...and they will use their primary weapons (a wildly liberal media establishment, their moles and allies in the letter agencies of government, and the vast funding that has always moved their agenda forward...from a range of Socialist elites across the globe) to retake the reins of government.

All my life I've scoffed at conspiracy theories...and rightly so for the most part. But one conspiracy holds true...and quite frankly has sought to influence and control modern democracy since it arose in England...and that is this coalition of intellectual elites and wealthy "nobility" seeking to mitigate and control the political power of the middle and lower classes (Honestly, you can see the same struggle going on in the Roman Republic as the Plebs and Patricians dueled for power...but I digress).  These folks simply have been and still are brazenly pulling the strings in our intelligence agencies (at the highest levels, not the rank and file), in our media, in our universities, etcetera...and they are formidable. And NOW they are more dangerous than they've ever been....because they are genuinely afraid.

An outsider has somehow forced his way on to the throne and has enough support from the Plebs to actually govern in their interests...and our modern form of upper nobility, the Deep State if you will, is both furious and afraid. And they will do anything and everything to stop this man...they would wage nuclear war and burn this whole structure to the ground before the cede any of their hard earned "elite" place in society and governance to the riff-raff (us).

@Mesaclone

   WELL SAID!

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

Nope,Globalists,one and all.

Exactly @sneakypete

[Oceander]

[jpsb]

   Unlike Trump who was born with the character flaw, @TomSea, Ted's a politician, he Lies, I'm just saying it's not in his DNA as the aforementioned.

   I guess that makes Ted somewhat of a Populist also, @Mesaclone

Lying Ted lies a lot, it is in his DNA to lie.

[corbe]

Lying Ted lies a lot, it is in his DNA to lie.

    I deserve that.

    Now Johnny show @jpsb what he's won.

<nope>   

thought I'd beat the Mods.

[Mesaclone]

Thank God everyman Donald Trump is looking out for you...the little guy.

Donald Trump is as far from being an "everyman" as it gets...and why would I want anyone in government looking out for me? What I want, is government to minimize its interference in my commerce, personal life choices, religious beliefs and to stay the hell out of my way as long as I'm not harming my fellow citizens. For that, there is no better man available than President Trump. I don't need his altruism, I just want his determination, competence and brashness in fighting the deep state folks...what doesn't make sense, is why everyone who believes in conservatism wouldn't want that.

So you can keep your Bill Kristols and your Evan Mcmuffins...your Jeff Flakes and the other "classy and sophisticated" good guy collaborators. In our current crisis, I want a cocky SOB who fights to kick intrusive...even co-opted...government back into the role the Founders intended for it.

[Emjay]

So, you oppose "support for the concerns of ordinary people" and/or "the quality of appealing to or being aimed at ordinary people."?
That's the dictionary definition...at least two primary definitions.

Then there is this In his book on American populism, The Populist Persuasion, the historian Michael Kazin describes populism as “a language whose speakers conceive of ordinary people as a noble assemblage not bounded narrowly by class; view their elite opponents as self-serving and undemocratic; and seek to mobilise the former against the latter.[/i]”

Kazin states our situation perfectly...the Noble Assemblage of the ordinary people vs a self proclaimed Elite who are self serving and undemocratic. In our current crisis, Populism is simply an uprising of the "ordinary" folks against the oppression of a bureaucratic government structure that is serving and being directed by elites....and those elites are coming from both parties. Layered on top of that, is liberal dominance of those "government structures", a fact that exacerbates the problem but is not its root.

Populism can be mob rule....or...it can be something more necessary, even noble. It is, in our current crisis, a people's way of saying "enough, we will not be ruled by bureau-tyrants any longer".

The "mob" version of populism, which we SHOULD all fear, is what Bernie Sanders was advocating...he would make government massive and synonymous with "the mob", essentially government would become an expression of mob rule. What the President's supporters are demanding is a reformation of the bureaucracy, and a general diminishment of its powers and scope...with a return of power to the local level whenever feasible.

A dose of conservative populism is a good thing Corbe...why would you be against that?

Thanks @Mesaclone   Eloquent and on point as usual. 

@corbe  just likes to throw words around and make his own definition of them.  He's a professional provocateur and likes to practice his art. 

A lot of people think they are better than 'The People.'  They are not.

[Chosen Daughter]

Donald Trump is as far from being an "everyman" as it gets...and why would I want anyone in government looking out for me? What I want, is government to minimize its interference in my commerce, personal life choices, religious beliefs and to stay the hell out of my way as long as I'm not harming my fellow citizens. For that, there is no better man available than President Trump. I don't need his altruism, I just want his determination, competence and brashness in fighting the deep state folks...what doesn't make sense, is why everyone who believes in conservatism wouldn't want that.

So you can keep your Bill Kristols and your Evan Mcmuffins...your Jeff Flakes and the other "classy and sophisticated" good guy collaborators. In our current crisis, I want a cocky SOB who fights to kick intrusive...even co-opted...government back into the role the Founders intended for it.

Your vision is different than mine.  I think you need new lenses.  I have seen Trump fold when he could have been your SOB.  He belongs to Evangelicals.  You would think that I would like that right?  No, different brand of religion than it used to be.

[corbe]

   Other than that 3/5's thing that was a dem compromise later, 'WE THE PEOPLE' did not exclude people that are not joyous about President Trump, @Emjay.

[aligncare]

I didn’t need a New York Times headline story to clue me in. I formed my conclusions about Trump after witnessing three years of Conservative/GOP NeverTrumpers and Democrats echoing each other‘s exact thematic arguments and sounding very much alike – in fact, it was hard to tell them apart without a score card. Conservatives and liberals saying the exact things about Donald Trump was a bit disconcerting at first but told me everything I needed to know to confirm Trump was the right guy to vote for.

[INVAR]

In our current crisis, I want a cocky SOB who fights to kick intrusive...even co-opted...government back into the role the Founders intended for it.

Really?  When did Trump make that happen?

1.5 $TRILLION in deficit spending that Trump signed to fully fund the Leftist agenda says your statement is beyond empty.

I also do not think you Trumsplicans actually want Government shoved back into the role the Founders intended it to be.  I think all you people really want is someone to fight and punish those you hate using his office to do it.

[Chosen Daughter]

Really?  When did Trump make that happen?

1.5 $TRILLION in deficit spending that Trump signed to fully fund the Leftist agenda says your statement is beyond empty.

I also do not think you Trumsplicans actually want Government shoved back into the role the Founders intended it to be.  I think all you people really want is someone to fight and punish those you hate using his office to do it.

He couldn't even do the Embassy right.  It was all about End Times and how he is King Cyrus.  Why wouldn't he move the Embassy?  He is soaking in his majestic role.

[Mesaclone]

Your vision is different than mine.  I think you need new lenses.  I have seen Trump fold when he could have been your SOB.  He belongs to Evangelicals.  You would think that I would like that right?  No, different brand of religion than it used to be.

Trump doesn't fold, he's just not stupid. For example, brash and determined is splitting your forces at Chancellorsville...stupid is the Charge of the Light Brigade or Custer riding into Little Big Horn with no supporting forces available. If you can't win a fight, you don't fight it just to claim you've done your duty...or to make some empty moral point. You take the Sun Tzu approach, manuevuer your forces and be patient so you can win the fight before the first drop of blood is shed.

Here's a great example. Trump...nor any President...cannot win a fight in congress to deport every single illegal immigrant in this country. Even if he could, it would be a Pyrrhic victory at best, because videos of shattered families and children would flood the airways resulting in a Democrat wave victory in the ensuing election...so that falls fully in the category of stupid. Demanding a small portion of immigrants...DACA...gain residency in exchange for a full scale border wall and greatly enhanced border security....now that is brash and determined.

Immigration is the perfect example of the ground on which he is fighting...without any of the "sophisticated" conservatives/Republicans helping him. And yet still he fights for it, because while victory is not assured it is possible...flat out 100% deportation isn't possible, so only a moron would fight on THAT ground.

Ditto for balancing the budget this year while still funding the military. He had zero chance of winning a fight for both, and wisely understood he could win a fight for our armed forces...which MUST be the priority. So, again, brash...not moronic.

So where you say he hasn't been an "SOB" is simply where he's demonstrating that he's not a moron and that he's read his Sun Tzu. He fights when he has at least the possibility of winning in congress...or through Executive Order. He doesn't charge into Hannibal's lines while leaving his flanks exposed (Cannae).

As for religion and Evangelical support...I could care less if Trump worships Baal. What matters is whether he protects religious freedom from the predations of a government all too often dominated by socialistic tendencies.