Author Topic: Ukraine’s dolphin army in ‘patriotic hunger strike’ after Russian capture  (Read 4361 times)

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Offline Sanguine

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It is one of those things that are hard to prove either way, because secretive by nature.  Here is a link though to a German article on it:

https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2015-05/ukraine-usa-maidan-finance
The United States has spent millions on Ukraine over the past few decades. Where did the money go?

Not many believe Mr. Traynor’s theory, but one person who does is the respected Professor John Mearsheimer, who teaches political science at the University of Chicago. He says that Washington continues to try to influence Ukraine even a decade after the Orange Revolution. He’s convinced that the Maidan protests – eventually responsible for the ousting of Mr. Yanukovych on February 22, 2014 – were several years in the making and backed by American cash. A putsch. "America wanted a change, because it wanted to gain influence over Ukraine," Prof. Mearsheimer says.

---

I meant that the government was much more favorable to Russia than the current one, which hates Russia.

Yep.  There's nuts everywhere.  Some of them squirrely than others.

Offline txradioguy

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Yep.  There's nuts everywhere.  Some of them squirrely than others.

@Sanguine

And of course Comrade Lukas picks someone like John Mearsheimer who blames the Jews...specifically the "Israel Lobby" for shaping Foreign Policy...and is naturally sympathetic to the terrorist organization that is the PLO in their struggle against Israel.


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« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 07:28:38 pm by txradioguy »
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Offline Suppressed

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You asked what date Ukraine invaded Russia, which is not what I had claimed.  I think that Russia was justified on behalf of the Russian-speaking Ukranians in the East, if for no other reason.  They wanted to be part of Russia and many were willing to give their lives fighting against the new protest-installed government, that toppled the legitimate government.

No.  @txradioguy asked about Finland.   I asked about when Ukraine invaded Russia, as you claimed the Soviets Russians invading Ukraine was a "strike back".  Well, Ukraine didn't strike Russia at all.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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You asked what date Ukraine invaded Russia, which is not what I had claimed.  I think that Russia was justified on behalf of the Russian-speaking Ukranians in the East, if for no other reason.  They wanted to be part of Russia and many were willing to give their lives fighting against the new protest-installed government, that toppled the legitimate government.
You realize Russia is using the "Russian-speaking people" of the Baltic states and Finland as a pretext for possible invasion (Crimea style), right?
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Offline txradioguy

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Was the West determined to transform Ukraine into a pro-Western democracy? The United States and Europe pumped several billions of dollars into Ukrainian civil society projects since 1991, while remaining indifferent to the Leonid Kuchma regime’s slide toward authoritarianism in the late 1990s, the abandonment by Yushchenko’s “Orange government” of its democratic reform agenda and Viktor Yanukovych’s establishment of a full-fledged authoritarian regime in 2010-2013.

Some Western policymakers supported the Maidan Revolution rhetorically and insisted that Yanukovych seek a compromise with the democratic revolutionaries; but most did not. No Western state actually provided any material assistance to the Maidan.

And no Western presidents or prime ministers called on Yanukovych to step down during the revolution: Quite the contrary, they traveled to Kiev in late February 2014 with the express purpose of saving him. Once he abandoned his office, many Western policymakers welcomed his move—but that was after, and not before, the fact.

Did NATO ever push Ukraine to join the alliance? The answer is no. And for good reason: It was (and still is) unready to make the commitment, under its Article 5, to rush to Ukraine’s assistance in case of an attack by Russia.

Three months after the Yushchenko government formally requested a “membership action plan” as a first step toward joining NATO, the alliance’s North Atlantic Council in April 2008 issued the vaguest “welcome” possible of “Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership.” While NATO declined to repudiate the Open Door principle it had declared a decade earlier (with the less vulnerable and more viable Poland and Czech Republic in mind), it also dampened the Yushchenko government’s ardor, declining to issue the requested membership plan and promising instead to talk about it.

<snip>

Putin's Real Motive

Did Putin seize the Crimea because of the West’s desire to transform Ukraine into its bastion? From the start, Putin has explained the seizure in terms of some putative need to protect Russians from the “fascist junta” in Kiev and to bring “sacred” Russian territory back into the fold. He began invoking the Western threat only after war with Ukraine had broken out and the West chose to support Kiev.

The fact is that Putin unleashed war against Ukraine for the same reasons that Saddam Hussein unleashed war against revolutionary Iran in 1980: to prevent revolutionary contagion, to punish the revolutionaries and to take advantage of their weakness to make territorial gains.

Supporters of the view that NATO enlargement provoked Russia are right about one thing. Enlarging NATO in 2004, just as Putin was consolidating his authoritarian regime and developing visions of imperial expansion, created an impossible security conundrum for Ukraine. NATO enlargement effectively sent Russia an unmistakably strong signal: that Ukraine was outside the West’s security interests and thus was fair game for Russia.

http://www.newsweek.com/putins-invasion-ukraine-dont-blame-west-311996


 :whistle:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline txradioguy

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You realize Russia is using the "Russian-speaking people" of the Baltic states and Finland as a pretext for possible invasion (Crimea style), right?

@Cyber Liberty

And Vlad will use that excuse to reunite the old USSR if his power grab goes unchecked.  The Soviet Union made sure there were "Russian speaking people" in every satellite country and SSR that used to fall under their control.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Cyber Liberty

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@Cyber Liberty

And Vlad will use that excuse to reunite the old USSR if his power grab goes unchecked.  The Soviet Union made sure there were "Russian speaking people" in every satellite country and SSR that used to fall under their control.
Exactly.
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Offline LucasWhite

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You realize Russia is using the "Russian-speaking people" of the Baltic states and Finland as a pretext for possible invasion (Crimea style), right?

Yes, there is always a pretext, and Russia and the US both want every nation to be on their side.

Offline LucasWhite

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http://www.newsweek.com/putins-invasion-ukraine-dont-blame-west-311996


Newsweek is basically a tabloid, big Antifa supporters and consistently ridiculous.  No offense, but I can't take anything posted on that site seriously.

Offline TomSea

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You asked what date Ukraine invaded Russia, which is not what I had claimed.  I think that Russia was justified on behalf of the Russian-speaking Ukranians in the East, if for no other reason.  They wanted to be part of Russia and many were willing to give their lives fighting against the new protest-installed government, that toppled the legitimate government.

And that is more propaganda, the people of the East Ukraine speak mainly Ukrainian, they don't want the trouble that Putin and the Nationalist bring. Hey, Russia's population is still in decline but I will wager that the Ethnic Russian Muslim population is growing while the ethnic Russian Christian/other is not. Vlad knows that, Daniel Pipes has written all about that. So, enjoy whatever fantasies one has.

Quote
Muslim Russia?
by Daniel Pipes
The Washington Times
October 21, 2013
http://www.danielpipes.org/13531/muslim-russia

In fact, it's been conjectured, the one way to stave this off for some time, is if Ukraine and Russia merged.

Offline TomSea

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Newsweek is basically a tabloid, big Antifa supporters and consistently ridiculous.  No offense, but I can't take anything posted on that site seriously.

And your sources are the wildest as well... more so, from an unfree press or the conspiracy types.

Offline txradioguy

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Newsweek is basically a tabloid, big Antifa supporters and consistently ridiculous.  No offense, but I can't take anything posted on that site seriously.

Truth hurts eh Comrade.

And you talking about propaganda is pretty rich considering the pro Putin talking points take you're regurgitating here. And citing liberal left wing German rags like Die Zeit.

That kinda crap might work on someone who hasn't spent much time in Europe...not gonna fly with me.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Yes, there is always a pretext, and Russia and the US both want every nation to be on their side.

Then why do we help the countries that hate us the most, the most lavishly? 
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Offline TomSea

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Russia, friends of North Korea, Assad, etc.

Assad, that Syrian buddy, has a park in Damascus dedicated to the founder of North Korea.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/syria-names-park-capital-korea-founder-150831194857490.html

Axis of evil.

Offline Sanguine

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You realize Russia is using the "Russian-speaking people" of the Baltic states and Finland as a pretext for possible invasion (Crimea style), right?

That sounds familiar.  Someone else used that excuse too to invade other lands.  Hmmmm..

Offline TomSea

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Chechnya, Russia is multi-ethnic though, the majority seem to be "Russian" but clearly, it is so big, there are places where other ethnic people are the majority, should they be allowed to break away?

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Look I am for Putin's aggression.  If he ruled the world, it would be a better place.  You would never get another knock on your door from Jehovah's Witnesses!  :silly:

@LucasWhite

The world would be a better place with a KGB strongman "ruling" it, and secret police dragging people from their homes at night?  With Putin poisoning his enemies and rigging elections?
Lol

You know TBR is attracting attention when it gets its first Russian troll.  Yay, us!

Online catfish1957

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Newsweek is basically a tabloid, big Antifa supporters and consistently ridiculous.  No offense, but I can't take anything posted on that site seriously.

Says the guy quoting AlJaezera.... :silly:
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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@LucasWhite

The world would be a better place with a KGB strongman "ruling" it, and secret police dragging people from their homes at night?  With Putin poisoning his enemies and rigging elections?
Lol

You know TBR is attracting attention when it gets its first Russian troll.  Yay, us!

 888high58888
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Gefn

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I'm bookmarking this. I'll read it tomorrow when I'm in a happier mood.

 I like dolphins. I don't want. To see them hurt  888cryingkitty
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Offline LucasWhite

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Truth hurts eh Comrade.

And you talking about propaganda is pretty rich considering the pro Putin talking points take you're regurgitating here. And citing liberal left wing German rags like Die Zeit.

That kinda crap might work on someone who hasn't spent much time in Europe...not gonna fly with me.

Oh, you think that Newsweek is of a sound mind politically?  You agree with most of their opinions?  I don't give a damn about Die Zeit, or any of those news sources, all suspect.  The bottom line is that Putin is a pro-Christian, authoritative, masculine, anti-degenerate man who would run this world a lot better than your American politicians ever would (see Libya, Iraq).  I don't mind if he lies about his reasons for taking over land in Europe.  I wish he would take over Germany, Sweden, etc, and depose their governments.  Of course, this is probably not going to happen but it would be better for the world if it did.

Offline LucasWhite

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Russia, friends of North Korea, Assad, etc.

Assad, that Syrian buddy, has a park in Damascus dedicated to the founder of North Korea.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/syria-names-park-capital-korea-founder-150831194857490.html

Axis of evil.

I am Assad's biggest fan.  Go read how Syria was pre-1970, pre-Hafez-Assad.  It was a mess, one government toppling another, incredibly unstable.  Hafez Assad stabilized Syria and made it a better place for Syrians including Christians, and Bashar al-Assad and his army has heroically defended it, risking their lives.  Assad did not run like Mubarak did. Syrians (the smart ones) don't want western interests ruling them any more, had enough of that under the French mandate.

Offline txradioguy

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Oh, you think that Newsweek is of a sound mind politically?  You agree with most of their opinions?  I don't give a damn about Die Zeit, or any of those news sources, all suspect.  The bottom line is that Putin is a pro-Christian, authoritative, masculine, anti-degenerate man who would run this world a lot better than your American politicians ever would (see Libya, Iraq).  I don't mind if he lies about his reasons for taking over land in Europe.  I wish he would take over Germany, Sweden, etc, and depose their governments.  Of course, this is probably not going to happen but it would be better for the world if it did.

Oh you're back...must be time for your shift to start at the Russian Troll Farm.

As for sources...just remember There is no Pravda in Izvestiya and there is no Izvestiya in Pravda.

Same goes for Sputnik and RT.

Like you they are all full of propagandist crap.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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I am Assad's biggest fan.  Go read how Syria was pre-1970, pre-Hafez-Assad.  It was a mess, one government toppling another, incredibly unstable.  Hafez Assad stabilized Syria and made it a better place for Syrians including Christians, and Bashar al-Assad and his army has heroically defended it, risking their lives.  Assad did not run like Mubarak did. Syrians (the smart ones) don't want western interests ruling them any more, had enough of that under the French mandate.

Bless your heart.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline LucasWhite

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Says the guy quoting AlJaezera.... :silly:

Al-Jaezera is garbage too.  There are few that are not.