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Author Topic: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t  (Read 8946 times)

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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #75 on: May 16, 2018, 11:59:04 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on May 16, 2018, 06:33:43 pm
@DB
That's right... I don't need all the whizbang at the cost of my privacy. Even if it is benign (which I don't believe it is), what it is establishing will be horrific in it's end. Predictably.

The thing that kills me is folks willing to live 24/7 with an open mike, and perhaps soon, an open cam... That, to me, is insanity... All for the ability to speak to a computer.

One day, everyone will look back and wonder just how stupid people were to trust this garbage.

If it can be abused, it will be abused.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #76 on: May 17, 2018, 12:01:11 am »
Quote from: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on May 16, 2018, 11:59:04 pm
One day, everyone will look back and wonder just how stupid people were to trust this garbage.

If it can be abused, it will be abused.

That's right.
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BassWrangler

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #77 on: May 17, 2018, 05:31:44 am »
I'm already marveling at the stupidity :)
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #78 on: May 17, 2018, 05:48:39 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 17, 2018, 05:31:44 am
I'm already marveling at the stupidity :)

Ahh... So now it's stupid to disable a function that I won't ever use, am suspicious of, and return noticeable performance to the machine?

What is stupid is that it doesn't have an off button in the first place.
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Online catfish1957

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #79 on: May 17, 2018, 08:42:15 am »
Quote from: roamer_1 on May 17, 2018, 05:48:39 am
Ahh... So now it's stupid to disable a function that I won't ever use, am suspicious of, and return noticeable performance to the machine?

What is stupid is that it doesn't have an off button in the first place.

Yeah, but its got a mofo plug though.......    :silly:
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #80 on: May 17, 2018, 02:55:23 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on May 17, 2018, 05:48:39 am
Ahh... So now it's stupid to disable a function that I won't ever use, am suspicious of, and return noticeable performance to the machine?

What is stupid is that it doesn't have an off button in the first place.

@roamer_1

I never in a million years thought I'd have use for one.  But I got my blind father a Google Home device on the day they were released, and it's been so wonderful for him.  He can listen to radio stations around the world, or any YouTube video, or old radio plays, or ... best of all, his baseball games!  He got a second one so he doesn't have to move it from the living room to the bedroom, and he recently discovered (somehow!) that he can have the device act as an intercom so he doesn't have to yell for my mom if he needs her help!  It's been such a wonderful thing for him.

Since I have Amazon prime, I got one of their devices, to see whether that would be better for him.  And I'm hooked.   I'm accepting of the claim that the device does entirely local processing until it hears the wake word, figuring that even it's not true, I'm not worried too much since I live alone.

My IQ has been falling for years, but I don't think I'm stupid yet.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #81 on: May 17, 2018, 03:25:58 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on May 17, 2018, 05:48:39 am
Ahh... So now it's stupid to disable a function that I won't ever use, am suspicious of, and return noticeable performance to the machine?

What is stupid is that it doesn't have an off button in the first place.

Doood!  I really don't think he was calling you stoopit.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2018, 04:05:25 pm »
Quote from: Suppressed on May 17, 2018, 02:55:23 pm

I never in a million years thought I'd have use for one.  But I got my blind father a Google Home device on the day they were released, and it's been so wonderful for him.  He can listen to radio stations around the world, or any YouTube video, or old radio plays, or ... best of all, his baseball games!  He got a second one so he doesn't have to move it from the living room to the bedroom, and he recently discovered (somehow!) that he can have the device act as an intercom so he doesn't have to yell for my mom if he needs her help!  It's been such a wonderful thing for him.

Hi @Suppressed
Different story - Your father's disability is a grand justification - If I were still in a wheelchair, hurting as I was, I would more likely justify it too.

Quote

Since I have Amazon prime, I got one of their devices, to see whether that would be better for him.  And I'm hooked.   I'm accepting of the claim that the device does entirely local processing until it hears the wake word, figuring that even it's not true, I'm not worried too much since I live alone.

My IQ has been falling for years, but I don't think I'm stupid yet.

Again, different story - My comment was specific  - I don't trust it, I don't use it... Why is it then stupid to disable it and regain noticeable performance from my machine?

But to your comment more broadly - Whether a local process until it hears it's name or not, it is IN FACT an open mike in your home. To suggest that won't be exploited is simply naive. Sooner or later, AdSense companies will insist the mike is just left on for their purposes in 'better tailoring goods and services for your 'benefit' '.... Sooner or later, we will find authorities able to turn it on and use it for 'law enforcement purposes'... And etcetera.

It is neither wild-eyed, nor particularly prescient to see how this tech, combined with AI, which is improving at an exponential rate, will be used to monitor your every waking moment, both mike and cam, not only for your 'benefit and protection', but against your freedom and privacy.

One need only imagine Soviet era governments with this tech in their possession to plumb those depths, and understand that yes, it can happen here.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #83 on: May 17, 2018, 04:11:42 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on May 17, 2018, 03:25:58 pm
Doood!  I really don't think he was calling you stoopit.

 :shrug:
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #84 on: May 17, 2018, 04:35:17 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on May 17, 2018, 05:48:39 am
Ahh... So now it's stupid to disable a function that I won't ever use, am suspicious of, and return noticeable performance to the machine?

What is stupid is that it doesn't have an off button in the first place.

@roamer_1
Maybe I'm getting confused and you might mean Cortana.  But the Amazon and Google products ostensibly have mic-mute buttons.
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“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #85 on: May 17, 2018, 04:37:56 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on May 17, 2018, 04:05:25 pm
It is neither wild-eyed, nor particularly prescient to see how this tech, combined with AI, which is improving at an exponential rate, will be used to monitor your every waking moment, both mike and cam, not only for your 'benefit and protection', but against your freedom and privacy.


I can agree there.

and I think that's part of where I'm getting worn down.  With AI and quantum computing, I think the weakest link will be the human element on the corporate/government side.  Otherwise, we don't stand a chance.

And fighting to keep privacy is getting SO tiring.

I also am about to give in to the ancestral DNA thing, too.  I still don't have Facebook nor put my name out there for many things, but the benefits seem to outweigh the costs as I get older and figure it won't matter for long anyway!
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #86 on: May 17, 2018, 04:44:52 pm »
Quote from: Suppressed on May 17, 2018, 04:35:17 pm
@roamer_1
Maybe I'm getting confused and you might mean Cortana.  But the Amazon and Google products ostensibly have mic-mute buttons.

I'm confused too.  I did notice that MS removed the switch to turn Cortana off, and that's really suspicious behavior on their part.. 
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #87 on: May 17, 2018, 04:49:32 pm »
Quote from: Suppressed on May 17, 2018, 04:35:17 pm
@roamer_1
Maybe I'm getting confused and you might mean Cortana.  But the Amazon and Google products ostensibly have mic-mute buttons.

@Suppressed

Yes, the conversation was about Cortana but more in line with the OP, I turned Google Assistant on in my droid last night to experiment...

 As I suspected, my redneck dialect makes it nearly impossible for it to understand me. So in my case, it is basically unusable - More PIA than it is worth for doing anything, as I have to tell it four different ways before I get a reasonable result.

But my phone, which normally would use a mere few percentage points overnight, dropped to 80% while resting... And with little use so far today, is under 50% charge. Normally, I wouldn't be below 50% till way late in the afternoon or evening.

To make matters worse, there is no easy way to turn the bloody thing off - While it now SAYS it is off, the discharge remains... Something is running now in the background that wasn't running before.  *****rollingeyes*****
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #88 on: May 17, 2018, 05:03:02 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on May 17, 2018, 04:49:32 pm
To make matters worse, there is no easy way to turn the bloody thing off - While it now SAYS it is off, the discharge remains... Something is running now in the background that wasn't running before.  *****rollingeyes*****

Of course!

I really hate that, too.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #89 on: May 17, 2018, 05:10:23 pm »
I've had battery discharge issues in the past (on my S4), so i looked at the Battery in the Android settings, and I found a process I didn't recognize.  On my laptop I did a Google on the name of the rogue process and found out it was a Firefox process.  Removed FF and it fixed it.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2018, 05:14:28 pm »
Quote from: Suppressed on May 17, 2018, 04:37:56 pm
And fighting to keep privacy is getting SO tiring.


Not if you just unplug and go back to normal living...
With the exception of this forum, email and text (and texting is a new thing for me), I have no more internet presence... And that is saying something for a guy that runs seven desktops and laptops and two droids all day long.

But then I am discovering that I like the old ways better - My peace of mind increases going back to the old ways. Privacy is ensured, and it is hardly tiring. I am better made for dirt on my hands from the garden, crap on my boots from the barn... and sweet tea on the porch with my kid(s)...

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2018, 05:17:50 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on May 17, 2018, 05:10:23 pm
I've had battery discharge issues in the past (on my S4), so i looked at the Battery in the Android settings, and I found a process I didn't recognize.  On my laptop I did a Google on the name of the rogue process and found out it was a Firefox process.  Removed FF and it fixed it.

OK, but all that changed between yesterday and today was that I enabled Google Assistant. There is only one reasonable conclusion.
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Online Cyber Liberty

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2018, 05:33:22 pm »
In settings, the "Battery" setting shows the apps that have been using up the charge since the last 100% recharge.  It will sick out like a sore thumb.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #93 on: May 17, 2018, 06:01:22 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on May 17, 2018, 05:33:22 pm
In settings, the "Battery" setting shows the apps that have been using up the charge since the last 100% recharge.  It will sick out like a sore thumb.

Screen 12% (!)
Android System 4%
Phone 4%
AndroidOS 3%
Google 2%

Everything else is under 1%... And that is way crazy screen, especially since the dang thing has been resting for 12 hrs. System and OS are way up, and Google didn't even register before.

Some of that may be updates, which are happening now... but those are unusual numbers.
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BassWrangler

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #94 on: May 18, 2018, 01:35:30 am »
Quote from: roamer_1 on May 17, 2018, 05:48:39 am
Ahh... So now it's stupid to disable a function that I won't ever use, am suspicious of, and return noticeable performance to the machine?

What is stupid is that it doesn't have an off button in the first place.

No, actually what's stupid is walking around with a cell phone but being paranoid about these home assistants.
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BassWrangler

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #95 on: May 18, 2018, 01:37:23 am »
Quote from: roamer_1 on May 17, 2018, 05:17:50 pm
OK, but all that changed between yesterday and today was that I enabled Google Assistant. There is only one reasonable conclusion.

Is it set to respond to "Hey Google" without you pressing a button or waking the phone up? If so, that might be an explanation for the battery drain. Some devices have special hardware specifically to be able to do that without keeping the (power-hungry) main processor awake.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #96 on: May 18, 2018, 01:47:37 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 18, 2018, 01:37:23 am
Is it set to respond to "Hey Google" without you pressing a button or waking the phone up? If so, that might be an explanation for the battery drain. Some devices have special hardware specifically to be able to do that without keeping the (power-hungry) main processor awake.

I think he said it's an S4...
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #97 on: May 18, 2018, 01:49:58 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 18, 2018, 01:35:30 am
No, actually what's stupid is walking around with a cell phone but being paranoid about these home assistants.

Yeah - I have already said the cell phone is a new thing for me, that I don't like very much either. I blow through three phones a day sitting at my bench - The last thing I want is to have another phone on me once I finally get shook loose.

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #98 on: May 18, 2018, 01:52:04 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 18, 2018, 01:37:23 am
Is it set to respond to "Hey Google" without you pressing a button or waking the phone up? If so, that might be an explanation for the battery drain. Some devices have special hardware specifically to be able to do that without keeping the (power-hungry) main processor awake.

Yeah, it's gone now. Had to log into google and turn it off there. I charged last sometime around 10 AM and I still have 75%, which is what I am used to.
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Online DB

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #99 on: May 18, 2018, 05:56:21 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 18, 2018, 01:35:30 am
No, actually what's stupid is walking around with a cell phone but being paranoid about these home assistants.

So you think a cell phone is the same thing as a microphone connected to the Internet?
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