Social Security Beneficiaries Top 62,000,000 for First Time

[LMAO]

Privatization would be nice, but I think those days are gone.

 There would be issues with privatization. Besides, we have IRAs and 401(k)s where people can take responsibility already for their retirement.  I do see it becoming more more difficult to qualify for Social Security in the future. A situation where you cannot have any other retirement, a home, or any assets over a certain amount.

But everybody in Washington knows that SS cannot be sustained in its present form. But nobody wants to address it because it would be politically unpopular and  those opposed to reforms would use  opposition to get the “granny vote.”

[edpc]

There would be issues with privatization. Besides, we have IRAs and 401(k)s where people can take responsibility already for their retirement.

Yes, but SS is not that.  It's generational theft.  There's a significant percentage of my pay that's confiscated.  I have zero say in how it's managed or disbursed. 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Yes, but SS is not that.  It's generational theft.  There's a significant percentage of my pay that's confiscated.  I have zero say in how it's managed or disbursed.

It's not just your pay, it is an added tax for everyone American as all companies must match the contribution or in the case of the self-employed, pay double the amount.

[DCPatriot]

Yes, but SS is not that.  It's generational theft.  There's a significant percentage of my pay that's confiscated.  I have zero say in how it's managed or disbursed.

When I was a little boy in Parochial school back in the early 1950's we had a 'Christmas Club', where members deposited a dollar...or loose change - one day each week.

You got back a surprise check in your name....at a wonderful time of the year when extra $$$ comes in handy.

Social Security taxes are the same thing.   You get your $$$ back on the 4th Wednesday of each month.

 


...and if you're to get yours for the next decade or so, we need more 'Pedro's' and 'Jose's" paying their FICA taxes. 

[Oceander]

That 'hardly' sure seems a term a haughty well-heeled lawyer might use doesn't it?

Most people do not think that way, but why should you be able to comprehend that?

And exactly how do you determine when an individual gets 110% or more of regular income taxes back in the form of government welfare anyway?

You may call this 'another income tax' but the government sure didn't when it took the money out of a paycheck.

Proving once again that if one but scratches the paint on a self-proclaimed conservative, a liberal usually shows up underneath. 

[XenaLee]

Yes, but SS is not that.  It's generational theft.  There's a significant percentage of my pay that's confiscated.  I have zero say in how it's managed or disbursed.

And yet... some call it 'just another entitlement'.   An entitlement that you paid for and then some, and had no choice about the matter.  Yeah...

it's a tax.

[dfwgator]

Which will make necessary entitlement reform  much more difficult

They don't call Social Security the "Third Rail" of politics for nothing.

[jmyrlefuller]

Hardly.  They paid nothing more than an additional income tax with a fancy-sounding name.  They didn’t buy an annuity, they didn’t make contributions to a pension plan.  They paid tax, pure and simple.  You aren’t entitled to get 110% or more of your regular income taxes back in the form of government welfare, why should that change just because a fancy label is applied to another income tax?

In that case, who deserves to get it at all?

The myth that "I paid into Social Security, therefore I deserve to get my money back" is the most powerful defense the left has in keeping it running. Switch it to a means test, and you turn it into yet another welfare program.

[Oceander]

In that case, who deserves to get it at all?

The myth that "I paid into Social Security, therefore I deserve to get my money back" is the most powerful defense the left has in keeping it running. Switch it to a means test, and you turn it into yet another welfare program.

What do you mean “turn it into” another welfare program.  It IS a welfare program. 

[GrouchoTex]

I have an idea.

This is always the dreaded discussion, of how and where to cut SS off, and privatize it.
The most pain free way, I would think is pick a date, say January 1st, 2019, and anyone born on that date and beyond would no longer receive, or pay into, SS.
That would still leave anyone born before that as eligible.
It would take 65 years to end it, but it would slowly wind down.
Yes there would be some Government spending, for those over 65, and no one paying in, 65+ years later, but the numbers would dwindle over time and eventually go away altogether.
Also, offer tax incentives for retirement savings,as an incentive start to save.
As it stands now, My 401K deposits isn't taxed, but the capital gains will be when I retire and start to use it.
The Tax free IRA is paid for with after income tax money.
I think if we could agree on a % of income that will not be taxes both in the initial deposit and the cap gains on withdrawal, this could work out.

[Sanguine]

I have an idea.

This is always the dreaded discussion, of how and where to cut SS off, and privatize it.
The most pain free way, I would think is pick a date, say January 1st, 2019, and anyone born on that date and beyond would no longer receive, or pay into, SS.
That would still leave anyone born before that as eligible.
It would take 65 years to end it, but it would slowly wind down.
Yes there would be some Government spending, for those over 65, and no one paying in, 65+ years later, but the numbers would dwindle over time and eventually go away altogether.
Also, offer tax incentives for retirement savings,as an incentive start to save.
As it stands now, My 401K deposits isn't taxed, but the capital gains will be when I retire and start to use it.
The Tax free IRA is paid for with after income tax money.
I think if we could agree on a % of income that will not be taxes both in the initial deposit and the cap gains on withdrawal, this could work out.

That's a pretty good idea.  I like it.  You could even go to 2003, because those kids wouldn't likely be working yet, so they wouldn't have paid anything in.

[GrouchoTex]

That's a pretty good idea.  I like it.  You could even go to 2003, because those kids wouldn't likely be working yet, so they wouldn't have paid anything in.

sure that would be good -15.99 years.
it would start the ball rolling faster.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Proving once again that if one but scratches the paint on a self-proclaimed conservative, a liberal usually shows up underneath.

You scratching that itch once again, aren't you?

Care to give us all a clue as to how you arrived at that poignant remark?

[Fishrrman]

dfw wrote in #31 above:
"They don't call Social Security the "Third Rail" of politics for nothing."

Absolutely right.
Folks around here have short memories. I don't.
Remember what happened after G.W. Bush's second inauguration, when he decided to use his "political capital" to see if changes could be made to the Social Security system?

What happened on election day 2006?

Nobody's "goin' there" again until they absolutely have no choice. At least not on the Republican side of the aisle.

[LMAO]

dfw wrote in #31 above:
"They don't call Social Security the "Third Rail" of politics for nothing."

Absolutely right.
Folks around here have short memories. I don't.
Remember what happened after G.W. Bush's second inauguration, when he decided to use his "political capital" to see if changes could be made to the Social Security system?

What happened on election day 2006?

Nobody's "goin' there" again until they absolutely have no choice. At least not on the Republican side of the aisle.

The war in Iraq was a much larger factor

[jmyrlefuller]

The war in Iraq was a much larger factor

That, and his betrayal on immigration and the "guest worker program" he decided to wait until the day after he won re-election to announce.

[LauraTXNM]

@GrouchoTex I really like your idea.  Labor Day march on Washington ;)?

[Hoodat]

Remember what happened after G.W. Bush's second inauguration, when he decided to use his "political capital" to see if changes could be made to the Social Security system?

Had he been successful, Republicans would have held on to both houses of Congress and the White House for the next 50 years.

[Hoodat]

They don't call Social Security the "Third Rail" of politics for nothing.

I call it a ponzi scheme.  If this was done outside of government, the people running it would be facing 40-year prison sentences.

[Snarknado]

I have an idea.

This is always the dreaded discussion, of how and where to cut SS off, and privatize it.
The most pain free way, I would think is pick a date, say January 1st, 2019, and anyone born on that date and beyond would no longer receive, or pay into, SS.
That would still leave anyone born before that as eligible.
It would take 65 years to end it, but it would slowly wind down.
Yes there would be some Government spending, for those over 65, and no one paying in, 65+ years later, but the numbers would dwindle over time and eventually go away altogether.
Also, offer tax incentives for retirement savings,as an incentive start to save.
As it stands now, My 401K deposits isn't taxed, but the capital gains will be when I retire and start to use it.
The Tax free IRA is paid for with after income tax money.
I think if we could agree on a % of income that will not be taxes both in the initial deposit and the cap gains on withdrawal, this could work out.

Cap gains? Every dollar of an IRA withdrawal is ordinary income - it doesn't matter how the dollar was earned.

As for SS, it's already means-tested to some extent. High earners get a smaller percentage back in benefits, they pay a higher income tax rate on their "contributions", and more of their benefits are taxed as income, and at higher rates. It's a horrible system all around - I mean, how many state and local government workers do you hear clamoring to be allowed into SS?

[txradioguy]

Pffft.  Until you can get over your jealousy of those wealthier than you, then you're part of the problem.  (See how that works?)  Or, even better, as long as you continue to treat everyone on this board with naked contempt, you will probably get back what you put in.

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.  Duh.  The point that I made very clearly and that you managed to avoid, is that if it is a tax and a Ponzi system for wealthy, then it is for those less wealthy too.  If you pay into it, you should benefit from it. 

Or, my preference, get rid of it because of its numerous problems.  Make people responsible for their own destinies.

@Sanguine QFT well said!

[txradioguy]

The war in Iraq was a much larger factor

No that was actually a win he should have used to rub the noses of the Dems in...especially after the success of the 2007 surge.

The biggest reason Bush did so poorly in the second term is because he didn't fight back against some outright lies being told by the Dems and then amplified in the media.

He didn't set the record straight...didn't let anyone on his staff correct the record...and fiction became fact about a lot of things.

[LMAO]

No that was actually a win he should have used to rub the noses of the Dems in...especially after the success of the 2007 surge

 The surge came after the 2006 elections

[txradioguy]

 The surge came after the 2006 elections

I know it did.  Well aware of that.  But with all the yammering and down talking of our effort over there he should have taken a victory lap around the Dems after they called a 4 star General a liar to his face...John Kerry's dumb @ss remarks etc...but he didn't.  It could have helped fend off and blunt the Dems in Congress in the eyes of the American people...but he didn't push back.  That silence is why the Dems were able to push ahead unchallenged.  Because they weren't called out.