Trump drops a bombshell on immigration, and no one bothers to report it

[driftdiver]

Racism against who?  Lazy Americans?

@Jazzhead
Its called projection.  Where you project things about yourself and your social network upon the rest of the country. 

[INVAR]

Damn right I've got the nerve.  Virtue-signaling is cheap, bub.   There's a reason why entitlement reform has been called the third rail of American politics.  We ALL feed at the government trough,  liberal and conservative alike.

No, wrong.

Only people like you do, and then project your leech/mooch mentality upon the rest of us to justify yourself in your own eyes.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead
Its called projection.  Where you project things about yourself and your social network upon the rest of the country.

I was quoting Department of Labor statistics that show better prospects for the unemployed than has been the case in over 20 years.

I am asking for an explanation for the difference between the 80 million unemployed Americans that @Chosen Daughter alleges and the 6.59 million Americans that the DOL counts as "actively looking for work".   

My social network?   Sure, I'm a veteran attorney, but my son came out of college five years ago with no job prospects at all.  He worked one temp job after another until finally landing a permanent job with benefits.  He was recently promoted into the salaried ranks and this evening he's taking delivery of his first new car (and it's made in America).

Get off your asses, lazy Americans.     
 

[driftdiver]

I was quoting Department of Labor statistics that show better prospects for the unemployed than has been the case in over 20 years.

I am asking for an explanation for the difference between the 80 million unemployed Americans that @Chosen Daughter alleges and the 6.59 million Americans that the DOL counts as "actively looking for work".   

My social network?   Sure, I'm a veteran attorney, but my son came out of college five years ago with no job prospects at all.  He worked one temp job after another until finally landing a permanent job with benefits.  He was recently promoted into the salaried ranks and this evening he's taking delivery of his first new car (and it's made in America).

Get off your asses, lazy Americans.     
 

@Jazzhead
How many jobs would there be if the illegals weren't taking 20-30 million of em?

Some employers love illegal immigrants.  They work cheap ,  dont get benefits and don't need pesky things like a decent work place with safety practices.  Kinda like slaves.

[DCPatriot]

I was quoting Department of Labor statistics that show better prospects for the unemployed than has been the case in over 20 years.

I am asking for an explanation for the difference between the 80 million unemployed Americans that @Chosen Daughter alleges and the 6.59 million Americans that the DOL counts as "actively looking for work".   

My social network?   Sure, I'm a veteran attorney, but my son came out of college five years ago with no job prospects at all.  He worked one temp job after another until finally landing a permanent job with benefits.  He was recently promoted into the salaried ranks and this evening he's taking delivery of his first new car (and it's made in America).

Get off your asses, lazy Americans.      
 

It's what a concerted effort, to get Americans 'addicted' to unemployment and subsequent disability checks...food stamps....emergency room as primary doctor, etc., will bear.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead
How many jobs would there be if the illegals weren't taking 20-30 million of em?

Some employers love illegal immigrants.  They work cheap ,  dont get benefits and don't need pesky things like a decent work place with safety practices.  Kinda like slaves.

Did you read my post above?  The DOL says the number of job openings is now equal, for the first time in 20 years, to the number of unemployed Americans looking for work.   These are legal jobs, paying at least the minimum wage.  Not under-the-table stuff from dishonest employers.   

The WJS article quoted a professional job recruiter who said:

If candidates have 75 or 80% of the job description, but they're a good fit culturally, employers will hire that person and find a way to train them for the hard skills they need. 

An American worker should be able to best an immigrant as a "good fit culturally", wouldn't ya think? 

Wouldn't ya? 

[driftdiver]

@Jazzhead
You do realize hiring an illegal immigrant is illegal.

You also realize that discriminating against a citizen in the hiring process is ...wait for it..... illegal.

not that the law matters to a lawyer.

[Sanguine]

Oh, stop it with your ridiculous paranoia and prejudice.   The real story can be found in today's Wall Street Journal,  in a news article entitled "For Unemployed, Now is a Good Time to Get Hired".

There was essentially one job opening for every unemployed person in America in March of 2018:

 

  The number of unfilled jobs U.S. employers had at the end of March rose to a record high of 6.55 million, the Labor Department said Tuesday.   There were just 6.59 million unemployed Americans that month, creating the narrowest gap between available jobs and those actively seeking work in nearly two decades of recordkeeping."   

So hop to it, lazy Americans.   The jobs are out there, and these are legal jobs, paying at least the minimum wage.  If these jobs are beneath you, then fine, but the dignity of work is out there for those willing to get off their asses. 

Meanwhile employers may turn to immigrants - those with the skills, drive, ambition and work ethic that too many Americans lack.  Offended by that statement?  Then explain to me the difference between the 80 million unemployed Americans alleged by @Chosen Daughter and the 6.59 million Americans that the DOL counts as "actively looking for work".     

That quote doesn't prove what you seem to think it proves.  Now is the narrowest gap, at some other point there was the widest gap, with all other times varying between the two points.  The main point is that there are still more job seekers than jobs, and that does not include the "discouraged workers" who have fallen off of the rolls.  Salaries have still not risen proportionately yet, but when they do they will encourage more people to enter the jobs market.  However, cheap labor will continue to depress wages.

[LauraTXNM]

I have a question for you all, that I don't know the answer to.  Ok, say there are 80 million "working age" people who aren't working.  6 million of them are actively looking for work.  BTW, I'm saying "welfare" as a shorthand for receiving benefits like disability, etc., to pay their living expenses.  (But obviously not the elderly on SS.)

So some of the people who aren't in the job market are parents and homemakers, working in the home.  Some of these people are on "welfare".  Didn't that recent stat say 4/10 adults on welfare are caring for kids?

Some people are physically or mentally ill or disabled and can't work.  I'm thinking most/all of these people are on "welfare".

Who are all rest of the 80M who aren't homemakers or ill?  How are they surviving?
Some of them are on welfare, too, though there are work requirements and time limits, so I'm guessing some are counted in the 6M "job-seeking" numbers.

If 4/10 working-age people on welfare are kid-carers, and some fraction are disabled (maybe 2/10?), how do the rest qualify for welfare? 

Do you all know anyone who falls into that 80M who aren't homemakers or ill?  Are they independently wealthy?  Early retirees?  Are they receiving welfare? 

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead
You do realize hiring an illegal immigrant is illegal.

You also realize that discriminating against a citizen in the hiring process is ...wait for it..... illegal.

not that the law matters to a lawyer.

I do not support employers hiring illegals.   I've been addressing the need for more legal immigration, so employers can get the employees they need to stay in business.   Too many Americans appear to prefer staying on the sidelines.   

Legal immigration, illegal immigration and political refugee policy are each different things.  The only thing I've said on this thread concerning illegal immigration is that sanctions should focus on employers, rather than on folks responding rationally to the demand for their services.   

[Jazzhead]

I have a question for you all, that I don't know the answer to.  Ok, say there are 80 million "working age" people who aren't working.  6 million of them are actively looking for work.  BTW, I'm saying "welfare" as a shorthand for receiving benefits like disability, etc., to pay their living expenses.  (But obviously not the elderly on SS.)

So some of the people who aren't in the job market are parents and homemakers, working in the home.  Some of these people are on "welfare".  Didn't that recent stat say 4/10 adults on welfare are caring for kids?

Some people are physically or mentally ill or disabled and can't work.  I'm thinking most/all of these people are on "welfare".

Who are all rest of the 80M who aren't homemakers or ill?  How are they surviving?
Some of them are on welfare, too, though there are work requirements and time limits, so I'm guessing some are counted in the 6M "job-seeking" numbers.

If 4/10 working-age people on welfare are kid-carers, and some fraction are disabled (maybe 2/10?), how do the rest qualify for welfare? 

Do you all know anyone who falls into that 80M who aren't homemakers or ill?  Are they independently wealthy?  Early retirees?  Are they receiving welfare?

Good questions, @LauraTXNM     I don't have time to research the matter right now,  but here's an article from CNBC (yes,  I know) that appears to say at least a little something about it.    https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/95-million-american-workers-not-in-us-labor-force.html   

[driftdiver]

I do not support employers hiring illegals.   I've been addressing the need for more legal immigration, so employers can get the employees they need to stay in business.   Too many Americans appear to prefer staying on the sidelines.   

Legal immigration, illegal immigration and political refugee policy are each different things.  The only thing I've said on this thread concerning illegal immigration is that sanctions should focus on employers, rather than on folks responding rationally to the demand for their services.   

@Jazzhead
I find it interesting how you conflate illegal immigration and legal immigration until you are called on it.  How you rave about how industrious those non-Americans are and how lazy the Americans are.

A legal immigrant is an American.

[INVAR]

Do you all know anyone who falls into that 80M who aren't homemakers or ill?  Are they independently wealthy?  Early retirees?  Are they receiving welfare?

Self-employed or small business owners not on anyone's payroll.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead
I find it interesting how you conflate illegal immigration and legal immigration until you are called on it.  How you rave about how industrious those non-Americans are and how lazy the Americans are.

A legal immigrant is an American.

I have not conflated illegal immigration and legal immigration.   The topic of the thread concerns President Trump's "bombshell" announcement that immigration (he means legal immigration) is needed to sustain economic growth.  And he is right. 

All I've said about illegal immigration is that sanctions should focus on employers.   Employers hire illegals because they are willing and able to do the jobs the employers require.   They are responding rationally to the demand for their services.  They work hard and show up on time (after all, as Dylan sang, to live outside the law you must be honest.)   I hesitate to call such folks the villains you do. 

Building walls addresses the supply side.   But the real work needs to be done on the demand side,  by BOTH (i) punishing employers who break the law, AND (ii) adopting immigration policies that allow employers to LEGALLY obtain the employees they need.     

[LauraTXNM]

@Jazzhead  Thanks for the link!  I absolutely don't expect you to research for me ;).

@INVAR  Wow, really?!  So small business owners count in the "not in the workforce" numbers?  That seems so silly -- they're definitely working quite hard.  And they shouldn't be "invisible" like homemakers.  Thank you for answering!

[INVAR]

@INVAR  Wow, really?!  So small business owners count in the "not in the workforce" numbers?  That seems so silly

Can you name anything the government touches that isn't 'silly' or 'stupid' or turned into crap, including coming up with numbers to try and measure the economy?

[LauraTXNM]

@INVAR  ;) True.  But if the self-employed and business owners are listed as "not working" along with homemakers and the disabled, then I'd say most of them are basically fully accounted for.  So we don't need to worry about people staying out of the workforce.

Also, then who are the people on welfare who aren't parents or disabled?  How do they qualify for benefits?  (I hope people who care for elderly or disabled family members get assistance, so I'm assuming they're in that remaining group.)

[txradioguy]

Do you all know anyone who falls into that 80M who aren't homemakers or ill?  Are they independently wealthy?  Early retirees?  Are they receiving welfare?

College students

[LauraTXNM]

College students

@txradioguy  Thank you!

More and more of the "non-working" adults seem to be busy.  So why are we worried about this 95M (not 80M)?

[LauraTXNM]

Ok, I found stats from the Atlanta Federal Reserve 2015/2016:

"-- 94.6 million people above the age of 16 were out of the workforce.
Of those:
-- 44.5 million were retired.
-- 14.5 million were in school or job training.
-- 12.8 million were taking care of a loved one.
-- 15.3 million weren't working because of an illness or disability.
In all, of the 94.6 million not working, 87.1 million were retired, in school, taking care of a loved one or physically unable to work.
That leaves 7.5 million people. What about them?
Of those, 1.6 million had looked for a job in the past year or wanted a job but had given up searching for more than a year. And 5.9 million workers listed "other" as a reason for not wanting or having a job. We don't know much about these workers."

I'm not sure if self-employed people and business owners are included in the 5.9M (or if they actually count as "non-working" at all). 

But 5.9M people who are not in the workforce for an unknown reason -- is that so bad?  Presumably not all of them are receiving governmental support.

[sneakypete]

@txradioguy  Thank you!

More and more of the "non-working" adults seem to be busy.  So why are we worried about this 95M (not 80M)?

@LauraTXNM

Isn't going to college full-time considered to be a job? Sure seemed like a job when I was going and taking 16 credit hour semesters.

[GrouchoTex]

College students

That makes sense, of working age, but not seeking full-time employment,

[Jazzhead]

Ok, I found stats from the Atlanta Federal Reserve 2015/2016:

"-- 94.6 million people above the age of 16 were out of the workforce.
Of those:
-- 44.5 million were retired.
-- 14.5 million were in school or job training.
-- 12.8 million were taking care of a loved one.
-- 15.3 million weren't working because of an illness or disability.
In all, of the 94.6 million not working, 87.1 million were retired, in school, taking care of a loved one or physically unable to work.
That leaves 7.5 million people. What about them?
Of those, 1.6 million had looked for a job in the past year or wanted a job but had given up searching for more than a year. And 5.9 million workers listed "other" as a reason for not wanting or having a job. We don't know much about these workers."

I'm not sure if self-employed people and business owners are included in the 5.9M (or if they actually count as "non-working" at all). 

But 5.9M people who are not in the workforce for an unknown reason -- is that so bad?  Presumably not all of them are receiving governmental support.

And to correlate that information with that in the article in today's WSJ:   6.59 million are actively looking for work, and the number of unfilled jobs U.S. employers had rose to a "record high" of 6.55 million.   

There would appear to be jobs available for those Americans willing and able to work.   

[LauraTXNM]

@LauraTXNM

Isn't going to college full-time considered to be a job? Sure seemed like a job when I was going and taking 16 credit hour semesters.

@sneakypete Totally agree!  Plus, you were actually "in the workforce" while studying, and I'm sure a lot of college kids are today.

I'm just trying to figure out
1) if the 95M "non-employed" Americans actually pose a problem and
2) of those receiving benefits, how many are "mooches", speaking with tongue in cheek.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete Totally agree!  Plus, you were actually "in the workforce" while studying, and I'm sure a lot of college kids are today.

I'm just trying to figure out
1) if the 95M "non-employed" Americans actually pose a problem and
2) of those receiving benefits, how many are "mooches", speaking with tongue in cheek.

@LauraTXNM

I have no idea how the goobermint figures those things,but I suspect they count adults in a household that don't have formal jobs as being "unemployed" even though their "job" may be as a housekeeper,babysitter to either a child or disabled adult,on like some people I have known,just mama's boys in their 60's that have never had jobs because their mamas pay them to stay home and keep them company. These are usually "only children" in old farming familes in this area that are living off of shares from land they lease out to others,and who haven't owned anybody any money for generations. I know of one farmer around here with inherited farm land that has been in his family since the 1700's that gets over a million bucks a year to not farm by putting some of his land in the soil bank or the timber bank,and still stays busy farming other areas.