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Offline mystery-ak

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May 4, 2018 / 10:22 AM / Updated 7 minutes ago
U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
Sarah N. Lynch


ALEXANDRIA, Va. (Reuters) - A federal judge on Friday sharply criticized Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s criminal case in Virginia against President Trump’s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, and openly questioned whether Mueller exceeded his prosecutorial powers by bringing it.

“I don’t see what relationship this indictment has with anything the special counsel is authorized to investigate,” U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis in the Eastern District of Virginia said.

At tense hearing at the federal courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia, the judge said Mueller should not have “unfettered power” in his Russia probe and that the charges against Manafort did not arise from the investigation into Moscow’s alleged meddling in the 2016 U.S. election.

Manafort is facing charges in both Virginia and Washington. The Virginia case charges him with offenses including tax and bank fraud. The other case accuses him of conspiring to launder money and failing to register as a foreign agent when he lobbied for the pro-Russia Ukrainian government.

more
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/u-s-judge-questions-special-counsels-powers-in-manafort-case-idUSKBN1I51WE
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2018, 04:20:31 pm »
Federal Judge: Special Counsel Mueller Prosecuting Manafort to Get to Trump
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/judge-virginia-manafort-mueller/2018/05/04/id/858371/

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Offline endicom

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2018, 04:22:50 pm »
Reuters watered it down:

A federal judge expressed deep skepticism Friday in the bank fraud case brought by special counsel Robert Mueller’s office against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, at one point saying he believes that Mueller’s motivation is to oust President Donald Trump from office.

“You don’t really care about Mr. Manafort’s bank fraud,” District Judge T.S. Ellis said to prosecutor Michael Dreeben, at times losing his temper. Ellis said prosecutors were interested in Manafort because of his potential to provide material that would lead to Trump’s “prosecution or impeachment,” Ellis said.

“That’s what you’re really interested in,” said Ellis, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan. He repeated his suspicion several times in the hour-long court hearing.


And more:  https://hotair.com/archives/2018/05/04/breaking-judge-blasts-special-counsel-manafort-hearing/


Offline Hoodat

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2018, 04:27:13 pm »
U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case

Sarah N. Lynch     |     May 4, 2018 / 11:22 AM     |     Updated 19 minutes ago


ALEXANDRIA, Va. (Reuters) - A federal judge on Friday sharply criticized Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s criminal case in Virginia against President Trump’s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, and openly questioned whether Mueller exceeded his prosecutorial powers by bringing it.

“I don’t see what relationship this indictment has with anything the special counsel is authorized to investigate,” U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis in the Eastern District of Virginia said.

At tense hearing at the federal courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia, the judge said Mueller should not have “unfettered power” in his Russia probe and that the charges against Manafort did not arise from the investigation into Moscow’s alleged meddling in the 2016 U.S. election.  .  .

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/u-s-judge-questions-special-counsels-powers-in-manafort-case-idUSKBN1I51WE




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Offline XenaLee

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2018, 04:35:58 pm »
Well.....

duh.

This judge is just now speaking up about this?   The question is... what, if anything, is he or anyone else going to do about it.  Jeff?  You there?  Still on planet earth or no....?
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2018, 04:39:29 pm »
Just off the top of my head, the Paula Jones civil case vs. Clinton was NOT from the Special Council.

The SC allowed it to go forward, and in that case Clinton committed perjury.
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Offline edpc

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 04:39:29 pm »
I think he was the judge in the American Taliban case.

He also asked the special counsel’s office to share privately with him a copy of Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosentein’s August 2017 memo elaborating on the scope of Mueller’s Russia probe. He said the current version he has been heavily redacted.

What transpires after that will be telling.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 04:43:33 pm by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2018, 04:45:45 pm »
Scooped by @mystery-ak once again.

As soon as Rush mentioned it I went looking for it..lol
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Offline endicom

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2018, 04:49:36 pm »

Offline edpc

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2018, 04:54:24 pm »
“You don’t really care about Mr. Manafort’s bank fraud,” District Judge T.S. Ellis said to prosecutor Michael Dreeben, at times losing his temper. Ellis said prosecutors were interested in Manafort because of his potential to provide material that would lead to Trump’s “prosecution or impeachment,” Ellis said.

“That’s what you’re really interested in,” said Ellis, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan. He repeated his suspicion several times in the hour-long court hearing.


No kidding.  Much of this material comes from charges federal investigators didn’t pursue against Manafort in 2014, because the investigation was more concerned with his cooperation in the investigation of former Ukrainian President Yanukovych.  It’s called leverage.
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Offline skeeter

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2018, 05:01:35 pm »

No kidding.  Much of this material comes from charges federal investigators didn’t pursue against Manafort in 2014, because the investigation was more concerned with his cooperation in the investigation of former Ukrainian President Yanukovych.  It’s called leverage.

Leverage for what?

Offline endicom

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2018, 05:04:16 pm »

No kidding.  Much of this material comes from charges federal investigators didn’t pursue against Manafort in 2014, because the investigation was more concerned with his cooperation in the investigation of former Ukrainian President Yanukovych.  It’s called leverage.


So that should be parlayed into a Trump hunt?


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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2018, 05:04:39 pm »

Your new home:



I like the waffle cones.  More fitting for thread about Mueller.
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Offline edpc

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2018, 05:15:04 pm »

So that should be parlayed into a Trump hunt?


It should be parlayed into an investigation into collusion, the original mandate.  You’ve got someone in your hands that consulted for Yanukovych, a corrupt politician, with direct ties to Putin.  Manafort was also in the Trump Tower meeting, knows what was discussed, and who said what to whom.  He can also independently confirm things they may have gathered from others like Gates and Papadopoulos.  No serious investigator wouldn’t pursue it.
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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2018, 05:27:29 pm »

Mollie
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43m43 minutes ago

federal judge 🔥🔥🔥 "We don't want anyone in this country w/ unfettered power. It's unlikely you're going to persuade me the special prosecutor has power to do anything he or she wants. The American people feel pretty strongly that no one has unfettered power."
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Offline Bigun

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2018, 05:30:49 pm »
Mollie
‏Verified account @MZHemingway
43m43 minutes ago

federal judge 🔥🔥🔥 "We don't want anyone in this country w/ unfettered power. It's unlikely you're going to persuade me the special prosecutor has power to do anything he or she wants. The American people feel pretty strongly that no one has unfettered power."

Mollie get's it!
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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2018, 05:46:57 pm »

It should be parlayed into an investigation into collusion, the original mandate.  You’ve got someone in your hands that consulted for Yanukovych, a corrupt politician, with direct ties to Putin.  Manafort was also in the Trump Tower meeting, knows what was discussed, and who said what to whom.  He can also independently confirm things they may have gathered from others like Gates and Papadopoulos.  No serious investigator wouldn’t pursue it.

@edpc
If it isn't directly related to collusion then its outside of Muellers power.  If the evidence was collected from another investigation its outside of his power.

An unlimited witch hunt isn't what this country is about.
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2018, 05:48:32 pm »
@edpc
If it isn't directly related to collusion then its outside of Muellers power.  If the evidence was collected from another investigation its outside of his power.

An unlimited witch hunt isn't what this country is about.

Ah, but that is exactly what the radical left would have this country be about.....

as long as the witch hunt is against their opponents (that would be us).

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Offline edpc

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2018, 07:41:31 pm »
@edpc
If it isn't directly related to collusion then its outside of Muellers power.  If the evidence was collected from another investigation its outside of his power.

An unlimited witch hunt isn't what this country is about.


That's where the redacted memo comes in.  This judge believes he needs to see the memo, reviewed in private, to make a decision.  They'll either let him see it, unredact some more, but not all, or decline.   

The SC, under any administration, is not unfettered.  They can only investigate what the AG (or acting) allows when it's presented to them.  The AG directing the SC can say no to avenues of investigation or shut it down entirely.  The president can also step in, if he choses.  Yeah, it'll make waves and be very unpopular with some people, but they can't stop him.  The SC is very fettered. 

Trump won't fire Mueller, Rosenstein, or Sessions for a couple reasons.  First, despite what we hear, he's not the confrontational fighter we've been told he is.  That was apparent in the ways he handled the firings of Comey and Tillerson.  Also, without those people, he cannot demagogue the issue.  Once he fires them, he's the sole focus of criticism and responsibility.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2018, 08:10:59 pm »

That's where the redacted memo comes in.  This judge believes he needs to see the memo, reviewed in private, to make a decision.  They'll either let him see it, unredact some more, but not all, or decline.   

The SC, under any administration, is not unfettered.  They can only investigate what the AG (or acting) allows when it's presented to them.  The AG directing the SC can say no to avenues of investigation or shut it down entirely.  The president can also step in, if he choses.  Yeah, it'll make waves and be very unpopular with some people, but they can't stop him.  The SC is very fettered. 

Trump won't fire Mueller, Rosenstein, or Sessions for a couple reasons.  First, despite what we hear, he's not the confrontational fighter we've been told he is.  That was apparent in the ways he handled the firings of Comey and Tillerson.  Also, without those people, he cannot demagogue the issue.  Once he fires them, he's the sole focus of criticism and responsibility.

I would like a lawyer, to confirm the SC only takes cases brought by the AG. I doubt it is so.
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Offline edpc

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2018, 08:17:15 pm »
I would like a lawyer, to confirm the SC only takes cases brought by the AG. I doubt it is so.


The SC can only pursue cases the AG authorizes.  Investigations are done, evidence is collected, the SC presents it, and the AG says yes or no.  Who said anything different?
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Offline edpc

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Re: U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2018, 08:47:21 pm »
At one point, Ellis posed a hypothetical question, speaking as if he were the prosecutor, about why Mueller's office referred a criminal investigation about Trump's personal attorney Michael Cohen to New York authorities and kept the Manafort case in Virginia.

They weren't interested in it because it didn't "further our core effort to get Trump," Ellis said, mimicking a prosecutor in the case.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/04/politics/paul-manafort-hearing/index.html


That was fairly dumb.  Cohen's case isn't being handled by the SC and has no bearing on Manafort's case.  He's just begging for for an overturn on appeal.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.