Author Topic: Newsweek: What is the Sovereign Citizen movement? Waffle House shooting suspect Travis Reinking used  (Read 2506 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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I have an ex high school classmate who is a member of this movement.  He is a professional who has refused to pay fed. taxes asserting that his occupation  is not liable. He actually did time in federal prison rather than pay taxes. 
These people claim that the fed. gov. has no jurisdiction over them, therefore, they don't have to pay fed. taxes.

My membership at TOS was barely a week old before I got into a  heated debate with some of these sovereign citizen types.  Claimed the fringe on the U.S. flag in a court room was a military flag etc etc.  It went on so long that it got moved into the Smokey Backroom LOL!
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Offline TomSea

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Whut?

Look it up, Tom.  He went to jail for refusal to pay his taxes.  Sheesh.

How about this one? The guy who shot and killed 3 police officers in Baton Rouge in 2016, black man Gavin Long was into this "sovereign citizen" movement as well.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/18/baton-rouge-police-shooter-said-was-sovereign-citizen.html

Offline Applewood

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That you interpret this in that manner is of no surprise to me.

24 hours places like 7-Elevens, Waffle Houses have a long history of being robbed. One can deny that all they want.



Ok.  you're talking robbery and I'm talking mass murder.  2 different crimes and 2 different subjects. 

Yes, the 24-hour places do get their share of robberies.  I'll grant you that.  But did the punk in this case try to rob the Waffle House?  Maybe I'm blind, but  I didn't see any evidence of that.  Seems to me he just wanted to kill.

By the way -- in my neighborhood, there is a local restaurant open 24 hours and as far as I know, it was robbed only once in all the years it's been in business.  But it's across the street from the police station and the police are always in and out of it for coffee and such.  I suppose that's a good deterrent.

Offline Sanguine

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This is really interesting stuff. 

Quote

Film star Wesley Snipes (One Night Stand, Blade) is scheduled for release from federal prison on July 19, 2013, 31 months after being incarcerated for failure to file his income-tax returns.

During his trial several other charges against him were dismissed including attempts to use the 861 argument, a claim that section 861 of the tax code exempts certain activities from the income tax and that is used unsuccessfully by tax protestors to avoid paying income taxes, as well as fraudulent attempts to obtain income-tax refunds from the IRS — Snipes referred to himself as “a non-resident alien” despite the fact that he is a U.S.-born citizen.

These are some of the tools the “sovereign citizen movement” (SCM) teaches in its quest to free members from various onerous and perceived unconstitutional laws and to declare themselves independent of the government.

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/8198-sovereign-citizen-movement-continues-to-attract-attention

Quote
Jerry and Joe Kane were part of an anti-government movement whose roots date back to the racist Posse Comitatus of the 1970s and the Montana Freemen of the 1990s. Convicted Oklahoma City bomber Terry Nichols was a sovereign citizen. And tax filings by actor Wesley Snipes, convicted of tax evasion in 2008, include numerous examples of sovereign language.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-look-at-the-sovereign-citizen-movement/2/


“Sovereign Citizen Movement” Continues to Attract Attention

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution... Proxy  Highlight

Mar 1, 2012 ... ... as well as fraudulent attempts to obtain income-tax refunds from the IRS — Snipes referred to himself as “a non-resident alien” despite the fact that he is a U.S.-born citizen. These are some of the tools the “sovereign citizen movement” ( SCM) teaches in its quest to free members from various onerous and ...
A look at the "sovereign citizen" movement - Page 2 - CBS News

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-look-at-the-soverei... Proxy  Highlight

And tax filings by actor Wesley Snipes, convicted of tax evasion in 2008, include numerous examples of sovereign language. "(The) Average sovereign citizen today is 30-35, and is in economic dire straits. They've probably lost their job. They've probably lost the wife," MacNab said. Asked if they're paranoid, she told Pitts, ...
The Paranoid Strain | Sovereign Citizens to Wesley Snipes

https://theparanoidstrain.com/2017/12/05/sovereign... Proxy  Highlight

Dec 5, 2017 ... This is our fifth episode, and the third of our series on the history of right wing, racist movements, and their evolution into the Sovereign Citizens. But most importantly, this is the episode where we explain why Wesley Snipes went to jail. That may seem like a weird point to harp on, but that's actually the ...
Tax protester 861 argument - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_861_ar... Proxy  Highlight

The 861 argument is a statutory argument used by tax protesters in the United States, which interprets a portion of the Internal Revenue Code as invalidating certain applications of income tax. The argument has uniformly been held by courts to be incorrect, and persons who have cited the argument as a basis for refusing to ...
FBI — The Sovereign Citizen Movement

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/april/sovere... Proxy  Highlight

Apr 13, 2010 ... Today, we look at a third threat—the “sovereign citizen” extremist movement. Sovereign citizens are anti-government extremists who believe that even though they physically reside in this country, they are separate or “sovereign” from the United States. As a result, they believe they don't have to answer to ...
Examining the Sovereign Citizen Movement in the Obama Era ...

www.politicsandpolicy.org/article/examining-sovere... Proxy  Highlight

Apr 28, 2014 ... Ideology aside, the world has also changed in the sovereign citizens' favor. With the average American squeezed both by higher debt and economic pressures, more people are willing to try sovereign citizen strategies to escape financial calamity. (One sign of this is when actor Wesley Snipes tried to use ...
Why Sovereign Citizens Don't Pay Taxes - disinformation - Disinfo.com

www.disinfo.com/2015/04/why-sovereign-citizens-don... Proxy  Highlight

Apr 12, 2015 ... Now before you get too excited, if you're American and you decide you're a sovereign citizen (whatever that means), opting out of paying federal income tax will get you precisely as far as it did Wesley Snipes. Be that as it may, sovereign citizen logic can be quite amusing, as recounted by Brea Tremblay at ...
Psychotic Discourse: The Rhetoric of the Sovereign Citizen Movement

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/027739... Proxy  Highlight

Keywords: conspiracy theories, psychoanalysis, psychosis, Jacques Lacan. Ten years ago, actor Wesley Snipes issued a 600-page statement to the Internal. Revenue Service protesting its schemes to “terrorize, enslave, rape or pillage”. American taxpayers. Indicted for tax fraud, Snipes claimed that he was exempt.
The UCC makes our Constitution irrelevant? | Metabunk

https://www.metabunk.org/the-ucc-makes-our-constit... Proxy  Highlight

Jan 8, 2012 ... ... sovereignty (sovereign citizen) which then exempts them from out constitution … they stop paying taxes, drive without a license or license plates and even declare in open court that the courts don't have jurisdiction of them. This is the same conspiracy theory Wesley Snipes tried to use to not pay taxes.
Baton Rouge Cop Killer Was a “Sovereign Citizen.” What the Heck Is ...

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/07/gavin... Proxy  Highlight

Jul 20, 2016 ... (Wesley Snipes, convicted of tax evasion in 2008, had ties to one of the first known black sovereign groups, the Nuwabians.) According to J. J. MacNab, an expert o


@TomSea


Offline TomSea

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Ok.  you're talking robbery and I'm talking mass murder.  2 different crimes and 2 different subjects. 

Yes, the 24-hour places do get their share of robberies.  I'll grant you that.  But did the punk in this case try to rob the Waffle House?  Maybe I'm blind, but  I didn't see any evidence of that.  Seems to me he just wanted to kill.

By the way -- in my neighborhood, there is a local restaurant open 24 hours and as far as I know, it was robbed only once in all the years it's been in business.  But it's across the street from the police station and the police are always in and out of it for coffee and such.  I suppose that's a good deterrent.

Violent crime is violent crime. I think we all know that.  Make whatever distinctions one wishes and talk about cops going to dunkin' donuts, that doesn't change things that crimes happen in places, this one convenience store I know of had a lot of drug trafficking until the police moved in.

Just happened the other day, the news is full of such crimes.
Quote
Clerk, customer robbed at gunpoint at Middlebury gas station
http://www.goshennews.com/news/clerk-customer-robbed-at-gunpoint-at-middlebury-gas-station/article_1dd61a36-44e7-11e8-9c49-b3993dcbfe86.html

Happens all the time. Violent crime at these places, maybe in regards to the number of stores, it's a small number that are effected.


   

Offline verga

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I would expect that the father will be civilly sued.
Question for the lawyers out there. Can he be criminally charged? The reports I saw said he had agreed that he would have possession of all the guys firearms.
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Online Fishrrman

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Did "sovereign citizen" play any role in this?
Nope.
The kid was just crazy, and probably enough so to warrant locking him up in an asylum.
The parents -- who should have had him put away -- didn't.

That's about the gist of it, to me.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Newsweek: What is the Sovereign Citizen movement?

Better question......what's Newsweek?

Offline thackney

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Newsweek: What is the Sovereign Citizen movement?

Better question......what's Newsweek?

I thought they had changed the spelling to more accurately reflect their work:

Newsweak
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Offline Restored

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If my child threatened to hurt me, I wouldn't give him a gun. That's just crazy.
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Offline Sanguine

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If my child threatened to hurt me, I wouldn't give him a gun. That's just crazy.

No kidding!