Author Topic: David Horowitz prefers name calling over debate on dangers of Article V Convention  (Read 10591 times)

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Offline johnwk

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SEE: David Horowitz: Why Conservatives Need to Amend the Constitution Now

Mr. Horowitz begins his article by writing:

”What do the John Birch Society, Eagle Forum, Common Cause and Planned Parenthood have in common? They all oppose the states’ use of Article V of our Constitution to impose and enforce constitutional limits on Washington.” 

Mr. Horowitz goes on to write:”While it is no surprise that Marxist-leaning groups would fight, tooth and nail, to resist any plan for breaking the federal government’s virtual monopoly on policy-making, all conservatives agree that this monopoly is a perversion of our federal system. But, sadly, the Left’s propaganda and junk history have brainwashed some conservatives into opposing the states’ use of constitutional power to check federal overreach.”

Indeed, in Mr. Horowitz’s view, that conservatives who oppose the call for a convention under Article V have been “brainwashed” by, “the Left’s propaganda and junk history”, is absurd and disingenuous to say the least.  In fact, conservatives who oppose the call base their reasoning on historical facts and unanswered questions which Mr. Horowitz should address rather than insulting these patriotic Americans and portray the opponents of an Article V convention as sympathizing with “Marxist-leaning groups” and “the radical Left”.

Hey, Mr. Horowitz, how about addressing a few of the unanswered questions and dangers of calling a “convention of states”, which I might add is found nowhere in the text of the Constitution?  The Constitution merely declares that Congress shall “call a Convention for proposing Amendments” if the required number of State Legislatures make application. 

In the meantime Mr. Horowitz, let me suggest you study Here Be Dragons: Dangers Of A Constitutional Convention and then address the dangers and unanswered questions instead of adolescent name calling.


JWK



”The deception of the appeal for a "convention of states" lies first of all in the name of the project. If you open your pocket Constitution, it's easy to see that the convention authorized by Article V would not be a "convention of states" in any sense of the word.” __ Phyllis Schlafly, 5/24/2016

Offline endicom

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I'm in the 'Here Be Dragons' camp. We could constrain such a convention like we've been able to constrain all other abuses against us.


Offline johnwk

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I'm in the 'Here Be Dragons' camp. We could constrain such a convention like we've been able to constrain all other abuses against us.

Aside from all the unanswered questions which arise should the required number of states make application to Congress to call a convention, I have always thought the very federal and state statists who are ignoring our Constitution's provisions and causing our sufferings, would be in total charge of rewriting its provisions and the ratification process ushering in their doings.  Seems to me, calling a convention would allow the statists to rewrite and make constitutional the current provisions of our Constitution they now ignore. 


JWK


 Chief Justice, Warren Burger, stated in 1988, “I have also repeatedly given my opinion that there is no effective way to limit or muzzle the actions of a Constitutional Convention. The Convention could make its own rules and set its own agenda. Congress might try to limit the Convention to one amendment or to one issue, but there is no way to assure that the Convention would obey. After a Convention is convened, it will be too late to stop the Convention if we don’t like the agenda. The meeting in 1787 ignored the limit placed by the Confederation Congress ‘for the sole and express purpose.’ “

« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 01:17:03 pm by johnwk »

Offline INVAR

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The current government and the courts routinely ignore, dismiss, circumvent and abolish the current Constitution, of which a growing majority of people in the country say needs to be abolished or fundamentally changed anyway.

Adding new amendments is not going to restrain an already lawless and corrupt system from complying with new rules designed to limit them when they routinely ignore and circumvent the existing ones that limit them.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline XenaLee

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I'm in the 'Here Be Dragons' camp. We could constrain such a convention like we've been able to constrain all other abuses against us.

No sarc tag?
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline endicom

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No sarc tag?


Better without it, I think. I doubt that anyone here imagines we've held back many abuses from the FedGov.


Offline johnwk

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The current government and the courts routinely ignore, dismiss, circumvent and abolish the current Constitution, of which a growing majority of people in the country say needs to be abolished or fundamentally changed anyway.

Adding new amendments is not going to restrain an already lawless and corrupt system from complying with new rules designed to limit them when they routinely ignore and circumvent the existing ones that limit them.

I agree with your thinking but would have stated . . . adding new amendments is not going to restrain an already lawless Fifth Column movement in our country which has infested our state governments in addition to infesting our federal government, and has created a shadow federal government which is working to our destruction and enslavement by using the power of taxation and a corruptible paper money system which our founders rejected.

JWK




80% of green energy money taxed away from the wages of hard working American Citizens WENT TO our Washington sewer rat donors!
   
   

Offline endicom

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Aside from all the unanswered questions which arise should the required number of states make application to Congress to call a convention, I have always thought the very federal and state statists who are ignoring our Constitution's provisions and causing our sufferings, would be in total charge of rewriting its provisions and the ratification process ushering in their doings.  Seems to me, calling a convention would allow the statists to rewrite and make constitutional the current provisions of our Constitution they now ignore. 


JWK


 Chief Justice, Warren Burger, stated in 1988, “I have also repeatedly given my opinion that there is no effective way to limit or muzzle the actions of a Constitutional Convention. The Convention could make its own rules and set its own agenda. Congress might try to limit the Convention to one amendment or to one issue, but there is no way to assure that the Convention would obey. After a Convention is convened, it will be too late to stop the Convention if we don’t like the agenda. The meeting in 1787 ignored the limit placed by the Confederation Congress ‘for the sole and express purpose.’ “


I agree. I foresee, or fear, more a storming of the Bastille than a reasoned process of securing liberty.


Offline johnwk

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I agree. I foresee, or fear, more a storming of the Bastille than a reasoned process of securing liberty.
Amen!

There are many unanswered questions and dangers attached to Congress being asked to call a convention at this point in time.  And if such a call is made it would more than likely open a Pandora’s Box and set in motion violent political partisan unrest which our Fifth Column Media outlets and Yellow Journalists would stoke with a passion never before witnessed in our Country.

Let those who unwittingly embrace the idea of a convention at least explore the unanswered questions and dangers before there is no turning back.

JWK


 

Without a Fifth Column Media, Yellow Journalism, Hollywood, and a corrupted FBI, Loretta Lynch, Hillary Clinton and Barack Hussein Obama, would be making license tags in a federal penitentiary

   

Offline endicom

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And if such a call is made it would more than likely open a Pandora’s Box and set in motion violent political partisan unrest which our Fifth Column Media outlets and Yellow Journalists would stoke with a passion never before witnessed in our Country.


Yes. From riots in the streets to riots in the chambers on Capitol Hill to intense lobbying to lawsuits to any and every thing.




Offline Axeslinger

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Y’all are aware an article V convention is NOT the same thing as a constitutional convention, right?

I hear you on the “they done follow the current one, why would New amendments restrain them?  That is valid but entirely separate from the attempts at an article V.  My personal opinion...whatever pitfalls an article v may have...it is our ONLY opportunity to reclaim our republic.  Without it, it is only a matter of when.
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline endicom

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Y’all are aware an article V convention is NOT the same thing as a constitutional convention, right?

I hear you on the “they done follow the current one, why would New amendments restrain them?  That is valid but entirely separate from the attempts at an article V.  My personal opinion...whatever pitfalls an article v may have...it is our ONLY opportunity to reclaim our republic.  Without it, it is only a matter of when.

"While there have been calls for an "Article V Convention" based on a single issue such as the balanced budget amendment, it is not clear whether a convention summoned in this way would be legally bound to limit discussion to a single issue; law professor Michael Stokes Paulsen has suggested that such a convention would have the "power to propose anything it sees fit",[2] whereas law professor Michael Rappaport[3] and attorney-at-law Robert Kelly[4] believe that a limited convention is possible."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Offline INVAR

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Y’all are aware an article V convention is NOT the same thing as a constitutional convention, right?

It's a convention of states to propose Amendments to the Constitution according to Article V.

I hear you on the “they done follow the current one, why would New amendments restrain them?  That is valid but entirely separate from the attempts at an article V.  My personal opinion...whatever pitfalls an article v may have...it is our ONLY opportunity to reclaim our republic.  Without it, it is only a matter of when.

You and I differ on the outcome of any attempt to reclaim the Republic via civil means.  Were too far gone for that and too divided a people.  Corruption is intrinsically institutionalized coupled with the fact that this people are wholly bereft of any attachment to what we once were and/or are ignorant of our heritage and history - and do not care to learn it.

The fact of the matter is you are not going to get the lawless and corrupt to abide by more laws without the use and threat of force.  Period.  History has much to teach us about where we have already arrived - and none of it good.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline johnwk

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"While there have been calls for an "Article V Convention" based on a single issue such as the balanced budget amendment, it is not clear whether a convention summoned in this way would be legally bound to limit discussion to a single issue; law professor Michael Stokes Paulsen has suggested that such a convention would have the "power to propose anything it sees fit",[2] whereas law professor Michael Rappaport[3] and attorney-at-law Robert Kelly[4] believe that a limited convention is possible."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

And what did James Madison think with regard to calling a convention under Article V?


”3
… an election into it would be courted by the most violent partizans on both sides; it wd. probably consist of the most heterogeneous characters; would be the very focus of that flame which has already too much heated men of all parties; would no doubt contain individuals of insidious views, who under the mask of seeking alterations popular in some parts but inadmissible in other parts of the Union might have a dangerous opportunity of sapping the very foundations of the fabric.”
See: From James Madison to George Lee Turberville, 2 November 1788


JWK



At the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a Mrs. Powel anxiously awaited the results and as Benjamin Franklin emerged from the long task now finished asked him directly, `Well, Doctor, what have we got? A republic or a monarchy?' `A republic, if you can keep it,' responded Franklin.




Offline johnwk

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I am not a conservative.

So?  What does that comment have to do with the subject?

JWK
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 05:55:34 pm by johnwk »

Offline Cyber Liberty

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So?  What does that comment have to do with the subject?

JWK

It's his tagline.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline johnwk

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It's his tagline.

Then, what did his post have to do with the subject of the thread?

JWK

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Then, what did his post have to do with the subject of the thread?

JWK

His post looked empty (to me), but it was not.  It had an image that did not come through.  Here's the link:

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/60268879/oh-my-god-not-this-shit-again.jpg

The website to which it's linked doesn't like it, but from the title on the image, I think you can get an idea of what he was trying to say. :shrug:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline johnwk

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His post looked empty (to me), but it was not.  It had an image that did not come through.  Here's the link:

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/60268879/oh-my-god-not-this-shit-again.jpg

The website to which it's linked doesn't like it, but from the title on the image, I think you can get an idea of what he was trying to say. :shrug:

Trying to do, would be more accurate.


JWK

As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there is a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of darkness.___Supreme Court Justice William Douglas

 

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Trying to do, would be more accurate.


JWK

As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there is a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of darkness.___Supreme Court Justice William Douglas

It's just part of the mechanics of how this forum software works.  I'm not really going to go into more detail than that, because I just remembered you are the fellow who got snippy with me when I tried to explain how Mentions (or "pings) work.   :shrug:

Enjoy your weekend.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline johnwk

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It's just part of the mechanics of how this forum software works.  I'm not really going to go into more detail than that, because I just remembered you are the fellow who got snippy with me when I tried to explain how Mentions (or "pings) work.   :shrug:

Enjoy your weekend.

Let me elaborate. It is obvious the poster had no intention to discus the subject of the thread when posting.  That was my point.  Perhaps I should have stated it more clearly.  Sorry if I was misunderstood.

 :shrug:

JWK

Offline WingNot

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Let me elaborate. It is obvious the poster had no intention to discus the subject of the thread when posting.  That was my point.  Perhaps I should have stated it more clearly.  Sorry if I was misunderstood.

 :shrug:

JWK


Your stick is firmly planted.  We get it Johhny.
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Your stick is firmly planted.  We get it Johhny.

 :happyhappy:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline WingNot

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:happyhappy:

God.  Some people.  The damn stink from TOS never wears off.
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."