Trump: Farmers will understand if they get hurt in China trade spat

[mystery-ak]

Trump: Farmers will understand if they get hurt in China trade spat

President Trump on Monday acknowledged that U.S. farmers could take a hit from trade disputes with China but said they will ultimately "understand" why the confrontation is necessary.

“But if we do a deal with China, if, during the course of a negotiation they want to hit the farmers because they think that hits me, I wouldn’t say that's nice. But I tell you, our farmers are great patriots,” Trump said.

“These are great patriots. They understand that they're doing this for the country," Trump said. "And we'll make it up to them. And in the end, they're going to be much stronger than they are right now.”

more
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/382292-trump-says-farmers-will-side-with-him-in-trade-fight-even-if-theyre

[ABX]

[driftdiver]

Most farmers anymore are corporate and not the family farms of old.  The average farm size is over 1000 acres.

Whether its owned by agribusiness or a family owned corporation they are experts at getting government handouts.   Trump has proposed cutting $38 billion in subsidies.   

[edpc]

And we'll make it up to them.


He'll give them a spot on The Apprentice, a condo, or a job in his rotating admin.

[DB]

Most farmers anymore are corporate and not the family farms of old.  The average farm size is over 1000 acres.

Whether its owned by agribusiness or a family owned corporation they are experts at getting government handouts.   Trump has proposed cutting $38 billion in subsidies.

Subsidies and tariffs are essentially the same thing. It is government picking winners and losers via taxes. Government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers period.

[INVAR]

Subsidies and tariffs are essentially the same thing. It is government picking winners and losers via taxes. Government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers period.

But it is, and we have to accept this new reality and get on board with how things are going to be done from now on.

Or we are an enemy of the people according to our Betters who insist that Trump is the New Way.

[Victoria33]

I've seen interviews with individual farmers, pig farmers and soybean farmers - not corporate farmers.  These farmers will not be voting for Trump in 2020.

[Idiot]

I've seen interviews with individual farmers, pig farmers and soybean farmers - not corporate farmers.  These farmers will not be voting for Trump in 2020.

In my business, we've seen the price of steel pipe rise 20%.  Plus I've seen my stock portfolio take a nose dive.  Kind of hard to support this....financially.  Of course Trump says the market is up 40% since he took office and a pull back is a non-event.  Wow...now I feel better...lol.

[Concerned]

Most farmers anymore are corporate and not the family farms of old.  The average farm size is over 1000 acres.

Whether its owned by agribusiness or a family owned corporation they are experts at getting government handouts.   Trump has proposed cutting $38 billion in subsidies.

According to the USDA from 2015, 97% of US farms are family-owned and 88% are small family farms (which represents 1.85M small family farms).  A majority of the vegetables and dairy do come from large farms though.  Still, there are an awful lot of small family farms still out there according to these numbers.   

Five Facts to Know about Family Farms

1. Food equals family – 97 percent of the 2.1 million farms in the United States are family-owned operations.

2. Small business matters – 88 percent of all U.S. farms are small family farms.

3. Local connections come in small packages – 58 percent of all direct farm sales to consumers come from small family farms.

4. Big business matters too – 64 percent of all vegetable sales and 66 percent of all dairy sales come from the 3 percent of farms that are large or very large family farms.

5. Farming provides new beginnings – 18 percent of principal operators on family farms in the U.S. started within the last 10 years.

https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2015/03/17/family-farms-are-focus-new-agriculture-census-data

[DB]

According to the USDA from 2015, 97% of US farms are family-owned and 88% are small family farms (which represents 1.85M small family farms).  A majority of the vegetables and dairy do come from large farms though.  Still, there are an awful lot of small family farms still out there according to these numbers.   

https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2015/03/17/family-farms-are-focus-new-agriculture-census-data

I have family members who are small farm family farmers. They face endless regulation, fees and permits to do much of anything on their own land. It is rapidly becoming impossible for the small family farm to survive the taxes, permits and general bureaucracy in states like California. They have to file reports about rain runoff, irrigation runoff, what they plant, what they fertilize with, any pesticides they use and the fuel they use. They have to have every water well on their property tested at their expense on a regular basis or face fines.

[Smokin Joe]

Most farmers anymore are corporate and not the family farms of old.  The average farm size is over 1000 acres.

Whether its owned by agribusiness or a family owned corporation they are experts at getting government handouts.   Trump has proposed cutting $38 billion in subsidies.

You have to be corporate or the death tax will eat the farm. Literally. It takes a million dollars worth of equipment to farm a section (one square mile, 640 acres) of land in this part of the world. Most wheat farms are several sections, some owned, some rented cropland. Virtually everything is computerized, monitored, and adjusted for maximum yields, and it still takes the economy of scale to make a decent living. With that in mind, if the family patriarch dies, leaving that multimillion dollar operation, most of it tied up in land and equipment invites inheritance taxes which will require selling it off.
So, the farmers incorporate, transfer ownership to those kin interested in farming, and the farm goes on in family hands without having to be parted out and re-started every generation.

Yes, ADM and Monsanto have huge farms, but the 'family farm' here better incorporate or it gets dismembered.

[Concerned]

I have family members who are small farm family farmers. They face endless regulation, fees and permits to do much of anything on their own land. It is rapidly becoming impossible for the small family farm to survive the taxes, permits and general bureaucracy in states like California. They have to file reports about rain runoff, irrigation runoff, what they plant, what they fertilize with, any pesticides they use and the fuel they use. They have to have every water well on their property tested at their expense on a regular basis or face fines.

With all that stacked against them, I really feel badly that they have to deal with threats of tariffs as well.

[bilo]

Subsidies and tariffs are essentially the same thing. It is government picking winners and losers via taxes. Government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers period.

So China continues to steal technology, subsidize industries until ours are destroyed, and place tariffs on our exports? If you're not for that then how do you propose getting them to stop?

Fighting China head on is a great idea. All the international organizations have failed to get China to be a fair trading nation. Also, the companies and products that will not be doing as much business with China will find new trading opportunities elsewhere.

[bilo]

I have family members who are small farm family farmers. They face endless regulation, fees and permits to do much of anything on their own land. It is rapidly becoming impossible for the small family farm to survive the taxes, permits and general bureaucracy in states like California. They have to file reports about rain runoff, irrigation runoff, what they plant, what they fertilize with, any pesticides they use and the fuel they use. They have to have every water well on their property tested at their expense on a regular basis or face fines.

I'm in real estate and all I can say is welcome to my world. I'm hit with an impossible series of rules and regulations. My costs will go up just because the cost of raw materials will rise. I don't mind trying to find a way to adapt as long as the ultimate threat, China, is forced to be more civilized rather than predatory. What I do mind is all the good Americans who will complain about China and say something should be done and then when something is done immediately complain.

[DB]

So China continues to steal technology, subsidize industries until ours are destroyed, and place tariffs on our exports? If you're not for that then how do you propose getting them to stop?

Fighting China head on is a great idea. All the international organizations have failed to get China to be a fair trading nation. Also, the companies and products that will not be doing as much business with China will find new trading opportunities elsewhere.

What does China stealing technology have to do with tariffs?

If you want to punish China over stealing stuff then punish all of China's exports. Don't pick winners and losers. But more importantly stop letting Chinese spies into the country. Put potential spies under surveillance and make them pay a price when caught.

If China is really offering products at below cost, buy all you can. It won't last long and it will bankrupt them. Otherwise, if you want to win a trade war, there is only one way. Be more competitive than they are. Protectionism does not make one more competitive. It does the exact opposite over time.

[Chosen Daughter]

According to the USDA from 2015, 97% of US farms are family-owned and 88% are small family farms (which represents 1.85M small family farms).  A majority of the vegetables and dairy do come from large farms though.  Still, there are an awful lot of small family farms still out there according to these numbers.   

https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2015/03/17/family-farms-are-focus-new-agriculture-census-data

I know someone who has a small family farming business.  Big or little the cost will be passed on to us.

[bilo]

What does China stealing technology have to do with tariffs?

If you want to punish China over stealing stuff then punish all of China's exports. Don't pick winners and losers. But more importantly stop letting Chinese spies into the country. Put potential spies under surveillance and make them pay a price when caught.

If China is really offering products at below cost, buy all you can. It won't last long and it will bankrupt them. Otherwise, if you want to win a trade war, there is only one way. Be more competitive than they are. Protectionism does not make one more competitive. It does the exact opposite over time.

Why go to war when one can be avoided by squeezing them slowly at the start? Tariffs on steel and aluminum were a shot across the bow. They responded with the threat of tariffs on agricultural products. China is used to the USA caving in. If we don't (and it sure looks like the American public will) they will have to change their ways.

The idea that they will bankrupt their industries if they keep undercutting ours has not been the case. They subsidized their solar panel industry, selling panels below cost, until our industry was bankrupted. Now their prices are back up and they dominate a whole industry. They don't operate with ordinary market pressure because they have a totalitarian govt and dissent is brutally crushed. 

[txradioguy]

So China continues to steal technology, subsidize industries until ours are destroyed, and place tariffs on our exports? If you're not for that then how do you propose getting them to stop?

@bilo yup that about sums it up.

Fighting China head on is a great idea. All the international organizations have failed to get China to be a fair trading nation. Also, the companies and products that will not be doing as much business with China will find new trading opportunities elsewhere.

If it were me...I'd immediately revoke their most favored nation trading status that Billy Jeff gave them during his second term...announce a 30% reduction in what we're buying from their manufacturers and return dual use technology authorization back to the State Department and get it out of Commerce or Agriculture or wherever Clinton moved it to allow China free access to missile tech.

THAT is how you get their attention and show the ChiComs we're serious about trade issues.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Most farmers anymore are corporate and not the family farms of old.  The average farm size is over 1000 acres.

Whether its owned by agribusiness or a family owned corporation they are experts at getting government handouts.   Trump has proposed cutting $38 billion in subsidies.

Don't know where you get your facts.

The USDA says that average farm size is a lot less than that https://www.agriculture.com/news/business/farms-in-us-drops-size-grows

And the ages of farmers are a lot older when compared to the US workforce.


I am one of those farmers who, unlike what you say, work as an individual, not a corporation and have never asked for any government handout.

[bilo]

@bilo yup that about sums it up.

If it were me...I'd immediately revoke their most favored nation trading status that Billy Jeff gave them during his second term...announce a 30% reduction in what we're buying from their manufacturers and return dual use technology authorization back to the State Department and get it out of Commerce or Agriculture or wherever Clinton moved it to allow China free access to missile tech.

THAT is how you get their attention and show the ChiComs we're serious about trade issues.

Love it!

I think a lot of people who are complaining about how getting tough on China will hurt them and is wrong don't realize the critical technology that is being transferred to them. Doing business in China means you turn over 51% ownership of the business to them and they have access to all your technology. Is it any surprise that their latest fighter jet looks so much like ours?

Also, in China industries that they deem are of critical importance to the state are not allowed to have any foreign investment in it.

[driftdiver]

Don't know where you get your facts.

The USDA says that average farm size is a lot less than that https://www.agriculture.com/news/business/farms-in-us-drops-size-grows

And the ages of farmers are a lot older when compared to the US workforce.


I am one of those farmers who, unlike what you say, work as an individual, not a corporation and have never asked for any government handout.

@IsailedawayfromFR
Its pretty easy to do a google.   The farmer lobby sites try to twist it but the information is out there.   I grew up in Iowa.  The farmers love this image of a single family who owns a piece of land raising crops and cows.   That is not the norm.

The list of subsidies given to farmers is extreme.   They get paid to plant certain crops, get paid not to plant, price supports, govt backed insurance, govt backed loans, and on and on and on.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@IsailedawayfromFR
Its pretty easy to do a google.   The farmer lobby sites try to twist it but the information is out there.   I grew up in Iowa.  The farmers love this image of a single family who owns a piece of land raising crops and cows.   That is not the norm.

The list of subsidies given to farmers is extreme.   They get paid to plant certain crops, get paid not to plant, price supports, govt backed insurance, govt backed loans, and on and on and on.

Once again, you say all that, but I am giving you one example of a farmer who does not fit the profile you created.

It is unquestionably the norm that most farmers are single-family and rather small.  There are no famers anywhere close to me that fit the profile you are describing.  Perhaps it is unique to Iowa and similar places.

[driftdiver]

Once again, you say all that, but I am giving you one example of a farmer who does not fit the profile you created.

It is unquestionably the norm that most farmers are single-family and rather small.  There are no famers anywhere close to me that fit the profile you are describing.  Perhaps it is unique to Iowa and similar places.

So no farmers near you take govt subsidies?   I find that hard to believe.   Every farmer I've ever met took them with both hands.

[Concerned]

Don't know where you get your facts.

The USDA says that average farm size is a lot less than that https://www.agriculture.com/news/business/farms-in-us-drops-size-grows

And the ages of farmers are a lot older when compared to the US workforce.


I am one of those farmers who, unlike what you say, work as an individual, not a corporation and have never asked for any government handout.

@IsailedawayfromFR

Similar to you providing some facts, in Reply #8, I posted a press release from the USDA that noted 88% of US farms are small, family farms.  The facts are clear, but unfortunately, there's obviously a lot of "fake news" out there.

[Smokin Joe]

So no farmers near you take govt subsidies?   I find that hard to believe.   Every farmer I've ever met took them with both hands.

I think a lot depends on the crops involved. The 'huge' farms I have known are growing dry land wheat (red wheat, durum) the smallest grew produce for local markets or tobacco. Cereal and oil seed crops tend to cover more acreage, which is needed to cover the costs of seeding and harvesting (and storage) equipment. More labor intensive crops have that investment in labor on an as needed basis, or invest in the equipment which does the job of that labor as their operations warrant (get larger). Either way, it makes no sense to grow more than you can harvest before it goes bad in the field, so some operations will be smaller.

IIRC, those cereal grains are more likely to be subsidized, although there are those few farmers who don't sign up for those programs.