Author Topic: In Historic Reversal, Republicans Are Likely To Retain Control Of Congress (Read 7134 times)

truth_seeker · « **Reply #50 on:** April 09, 2018, 03:39:16 am »

Quote from: libertybele on April 08, 2018, 11:14:24 pm

The GOP has done absolutely nothing to motivate their base; quite the opposite.

A disappointing thing on forums, is overstatement.

Tax cut, defense increases, regulatory reduction, serious steps towards better securing the border, progress with Northh Korea, possible progress in the middle east, are not "absolutely nothing."

If your mischaracterization is a reflection of the judgment of "their base," there is really no point discussing things.

InHeavenThereIsNoBeer · « **Reply #51 on:** April 09, 2018, 03:51:55 am »

Quote from: truth_seeker on April 09, 2018, 03:39:16 am

A disappointing thing on forums, is overstatement.

Tax cut, defense increases, regulatory reduction, serious steps towards better securing the border, p

, possible progress in the middle east, are not "absolutely nothing."

If your mischaracterization is a reflection of the judgment of "their base," there is really no point discussing things.

Tax cut... for some, maybe. Yet to be seen.

Defense increases... Can we really afford them? How about reducing our "defense" spending by stopping subsidizing a vast amount of global military spending (and saving lots of American lives in the process)?

Serious steps towards better securing the border... Promising "news" about using the military to secure the border recently. Hope it's true, but unfortunately there's no reason to believe anything Trump says.

Progress with North Korea... Will Madelline Halfbright be there for the toast?

Possible progress in the middle east... Possible, or progress?

LauraTXNM · « **Reply #52 on:** April 09, 2018, 04:26:55 am »

Quote from: aligncare on April 08, 2018, 01:35:37 pm

Agree. Now is not the time to bail on the GOP as we are a nation that is culturally divided, with ownership of the culture firmly in the hands of Hollywood and the opinion makers in the elite media centers of New York and LA. Until we can wrest control of the culture from their hands, it would be unwise to dilute the GOPâ€™s political power with third party votes or worse, votes for democrats.

Work to change the GOP into a more Conservative party. Thatâ€™s the answer.

@aligncare That is something I don't understand: it would take decades and probably more than one generation to change the culture that fundamentally, wouldn't it?

P.S. I read your later comment. I agree that the Internet and repaid technological changes may speed up cultural change, but I'm not sure the "opinion-makers" will trend conservative.

LauraTXNM · « **Reply #53 on:** April 09, 2018, 04:43:23 am »

Quote from: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on April 09, 2018, 03:51:55 am

Tax cut... for some, maybe. Yet to be seen.

Defense increases... Can we really afford them? How about reducing our "defense" spending by stopping subsidizing a vast amount of global military spending (and saving lots of American lives in the process)?

Serious steps towards better securing the border... Promising "news" about using the military to secure the border recently. Hope it's true, but unfortunately there's no reason to believe anything Trump says.

Progress with North Korea... Will Madelline Halfbright be there for the toast?

Possible progress in the middle east... Possible, or progress?

@truth_seeker @InHeavenThereIsNoBeer
I also don't know if the economic moves will be overshadowed by the huge budget and possible tariffs.

To-Whose-Benefit? · « **Reply #54 on:** April 09, 2018, 05:03:51 am »

Quote from: LauraTXNM on April 09, 2018, 04:26:55 am

That is something I don't understand: it would take decades and probably more than one generation to change the culture that fundamentally, wouldn't it?

Yes it will.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction." RWR.

Where's the 'Tea Party' today?

Scoundrels sent out mailers etc grubbing money to elect Tea Party candidates, and pocketed the money.

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Object lesson:

Eisenhower as Supreme Allied Commander in WWII had all kinds of trouble with Montgomery who was forever making plans upon plans, like Market Garden.

Patton on the other hand - because he Kept It Simple - drove so fast and hard that he outran his supply lines.

If it had been Monty with his 'Perfect Plans' instead of Ike running the show there's a good chance Britain would be a part of greater Pan Germania today.

"The price good men pay for their indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
Plato

Way too many voters pay hardly any attention to what goes on after they leave the booth, for the following 2 to 4 years.

A 'Conservative' 3rd Party in this mix is going to split the vote and hand everything right back to the Democrats.

The DNC is broke. They're on the ropes. Think Patton, not Monty at this point. Finish them off for at least the next 2 years and concentrate on getting control of the Judiciary back. When the Law itself means whatever the Judge's whims are, no 3rd Party is gonna matter squat even if it passes All the Laws it promised to pass rather than imploding at the polls and dragging us all down with it.

And I Don't need another heated screed full of sound and fury, signifying nothing, about how "They're All The Same".

Not with the HRC 'Show That Never Ends' as a nightly comedy.

LauraTXNM · « **Reply #55 on:** April 09, 2018, 05:19:31 am »

Quote from: To-Whose-Benefit? on April 09, 2018, 05:03:51 am

Yes it will.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction." RWR.

Where's the 'Tea Party' today?

Scoundrels sent out mailers etc grubbing money to elect Tea Party candidates, and pocketed the money.

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Object lesson:

Eisenhower as Supreme Allied Commander in WWII had all kinds of trouble with Montgomery who was forever making plans upon plans, like Market Garden.

Patton on the other hand - because he Kept It Simple - drove so fast and hard that he outran his supply lines.

If it had been Monty with his 'Perfect Plans' instead of Ike running the show there's a good chance Britain would be a part of greater Pan Germania today.

"The price good men pay for their indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
Plato

Way too many voters pay hardly any attention to what goes on after they leave the booth, for the following 2 to 4 years.

A 'Conservative' 3rd Party in this mix is going to split the vote and hand everything right back to the Democrats.

The DNC is broke. They're on the ropes. Think Patton, not Monty at this point. Finish them off for at least the next 2 years and concentrate on getting control of the Judiciary back. When the Law itself means whatever the Judge's whims are, no 3rd Party is gonna matter squat even if it passes All the Laws it promised to pass rather than imploding at the polls and dragging us all down with it.

And I Don't need another heated screed full of sound and fury, signifying nothing, about how "They're All The Same".

Not with the HRC 'Show That Never Ends' as a nightly comedy.

@To-Whose-Benefit? I'd never seen that quote by Plato! What a depressing illustration that we never learn. I know the DNC is heavily in debt, but I'll bet the anti-Trump fervor brings out a flood of Democratic voters anyway.

BTW, I just saw Ernest Borgnine in "Red", which was so much fun ;). He looked great; I'm sad he's gone, though I know he had a long, long life. My mother really liked him.

INVAR · « **Reply #56 on:** April 09, 2018, 06:21:53 am »

Quote from: To-Whose-Benefit? on April 09, 2018, 05:03:51 am

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

That is a bullshit proverb.

It's no different than saying 'embrace the devil, and you will achieve righteousness'.

If abandoning an apostate party is to be declared an enemy to what you say is good, then let it be so.

Character and principles matter, even if you say they do not. You can call them an obstacle to achievement all you like. It is exactly what the Left tells us.

Quote from: To-Whose-Benefit? on April 09, 2018, 05:03:51 am

A 'Conservative' 3rd Party in this mix is going to split the vote and hand everything right back to the Democrats.

I don't care anymore. It's irrelevant as far as I am concerned. The GOP has showed us that they govern just like Democrats, even to the point of drafting trillion-dollar spending bills in secret and refusing anyone time to read it before they vote it into law.

If anyone handed everything back to the Democrats, the Republican party itself made sure of it these last 4 years. They own ObamaCare now and funded everything Pelosi and Schumer wanted that the GOP promised was going to be stopped or repealed 'root and branch' "day one".

There is no greater enemy of the good than treason from within, by your own leadership.

A Conservative 3rd party now is inevitable and necessary if there is to be ANY resistance to this Socialist Bog-Government , Crony Corporatist Statism that both parties now represent.

To-Whose-Benefit? · « **Reply #57 on:** April 09, 2018, 06:48:08 am »

@INVAR

"Tea Party"

libertybele · « **Reply #58 on:** April 09, 2018, 11:10:11 am »

Quote from: To-Whose-Benefit? on April 09, 2018, 06:48:08 am

@INVAR

"Tea Party"

With that being stated, do you feel that the "Tea Party" split this past election with some voting for Trump and others voting for Cruz?

aligncare · « **Reply #59 on:** April 09, 2018, 11:28:37 am »

Quote from: LauraTXNM on April 09, 2018, 04:26:55 am

@aligncare That is something I don't understand: it would take decades and probably more than one generation to change the culture that fundamentally, wouldn't it?

P.S. I read your later comment. I agree that the Internet and repaid technological changes may speed up cultural change, but I'm not sure the "opinion-makers" will trend conservative.

As Andrew Brietbart once famously noted, politics is downstream from culture. The international Left has for decades been hard at work changing â€“ tearing down â€“ the American experiment through universities, Hollywood and news media. Yes, taking back the culture is a long process. But, understanding is the beginning of change.

INVAR · « **Reply #60 on:** April 09, 2018, 03:15:47 pm »

Quote from: aligncare on April 09, 2018, 11:28:37 am

As Andrew Brietbart once famously noted, politics is downstream from culture. The international Left has for decades been hard at work changing â€“ tearing down â€“ the American experiment through universities, Hollywood and news media. Yes, taking back the culture is a long process. But, understanding is the beginning of change.

The cultural morality of the nation has been rejected and changed for the worse. With it went everything else. As Franklin noted, only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. A corrupt and vicious people will have more need of masters, meaning they will require iron-fisted rulers to keep order. Liberty cannot exist in that environment.

Sadly, the bulk of the Republicans and a whole lot of Conservatives somehow bought into the idea that we change the culture by electing people to office, all-the-while while continuing to eschew principles and morality that they consider to be a 'drag' on 'winning' elections. Now we elect people to power based on their ambition, not their character that would reflect trust to preserve that which the culture itself no longer values.

Transforming the culture into one where liberty can flourish does not happen at the ballot box, or in the halls of government. Those are the reflections of a culture and a people. Trying to make a people into a reflection of government is a tyranny.

"It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."- Patrick Henry

To-Whose-Benefit? · « **Reply #61 on:** April 09, 2018, 03:16:10 pm »

Quote from: libertybele on April 09, 2018, 11:10:11 am

With that being stated, do you feel that the "Tea Party" split this past election with some voting for Trump and others voting for Cruz?

No doubt there was a very small percentage who wrote in Cruz but the over whelming majority were people voting against HRC and the continuation/acceleration of Obama's Saul Alinsky.

As @aligncare points out the left has done a real Bang Up job of hijacking the culture and if we expect any change in Govt we'll have to take it back from them.

Our institutions were invaded and the infection seeded before most of us were born.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

musiclady · « **Reply #62 on:** April 09, 2018, 03:31:09 pm »

Quote from: To-Whose-Benefit? on April 09, 2018, 03:16:10 pm

No doubt there was a very small percentage who wrote in Cruz but the over whelming majority were people voting against HRC and the continuation/acceleration of Obama's Saul Alinsky.

As @aligncare points out the left has done a real Bang Up job of hijacking the culture and if we expect any change in Govt we'll have to take it back from them.

Our institutions were invaded and the infection seeded before most of us were born.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

The fundamental problem is that WE did not take it back from them with Trump.

Trump (primary) voters may have thought they were roiling the waters of the swamp, but they were just contributing to it.

As long as we have ignorant voters who don't know that populist liberalism isn't even remotely conservative, WE will never get this country back.

As of May, 2016 when the Republican Party officially removed any vestige of conservatism in their party, I have little hope that we ever will.

INVAR · « **Reply #63 on:** April 09, 2018, 03:39:37 pm »

Quote from: musiclady on April 09, 2018, 03:31:09 pm

The fundamental problem is that WE did not take it back from them with Trump.

Trump (primary) voters may have thought they were roiling the waters of the swamp, but they were just contributing to it.

As long as we have ignorant voters who don't know that populist liberalism isn't even remotely conservative, WE will never get this country back.

As of May, 2016 when the Republican Party officially removed any vestige of conservatism in their party, I have little hope that we ever will.

One cannot save or retain a culture via elections. Elections are a reflection of the culture.

A culture that wants virtue, morality and liberty, will select representatives that reflect those values.

A culture that wants government to impose everything from payback to paychecks - selects rulers that will impose those values.

Here we are, being ruled by the latter - because the culture has rejected the foundations that made liberty possible.

Night Hides Not · « **Reply #64 on:** April 09, 2018, 04:04:35 pm »

Quote from: musiclady on April 09, 2018, 03:31:09 pm

The fundamental problem is that WE did not take it back from them with Trump.

Trump (primary) voters may have thought they were roiling the waters of the swamp, but they were just contributing to it.

As long as we have ignorant voters who don't know that populist liberalism isn't even remotely conservative, WE will never get this country back.

As of May, 2016 when the Republican Party officially removed any vestige of conservatism in their party, I have little hope that we ever will.

I think you're paying Trump voters a disservice when you describe them as "ignorant". Trump was (is) their vessel for giving DC a double bird. IMO, they held their noses, closed their eyes, and covered their ears while shouting "he's no Hillary!!" after they boarded the Trump Train.

That is not ignorance, that is a conscious decision they made in casting their lot with such an immoral man. They have no choice but to ride it out, much like those evangelical leaders who expected a sea change of morality when Trump became President.

We don't live in a vacuum, so I will continue to praise Trump when he's right, and voice my disagreement when he's in the wrong. I expect him to be a leader this country needs, not a bully given to tweetstorms engaging in personal attacks. The issue of his personal failings has been litigated in the Electoral College, now he must perform the difficult task of demonstrating the attributes that a great leader possesses:

https://blog.taskque.com/characteristics-good-leaders/

Honesty and Integrity. ...
Confidence
Inspire Others. ...
Commitment and Passion. ...
Good Communicator. ...
Decision-Making Capabilities. ...
Accountability. ...
Delegation and Empowerment. ...
Creativity and Innovation.
Empathy

I'm looking hard at this list, and I give him props for Confidence and Commitment & Passion. The remaining 8 are a Himalaya to climb in my book.

musiclady · « **Reply #65 on:** April 09, 2018, 04:41:56 pm »

Quote from: Night Hides Not on April 09, 2018, 04:04:35 pm

I think you're paying Trump voters a disservice when you describe them as "ignorant". Trump was (is) their vessel for giving DC a double bird. IMO, they held their noses, closed their eyes, and covered their ears while shouting "he's no Hillary!!" after they boarded the Trump Train.

That is not ignorance, that is a conscious decision they made in casting their lot with such an immoral man. They have no choice but to ride it out, much like those evangelical leaders who expected a sea change of morality when Trump became President.

We don't live in a vacuum, so I will continue to praise Trump when he's right, and voice my disagreement when he's in the wrong. I expect him to be a leader this country needs, not a bully given to tweetstorms engaging in personal attacks. The issue of his personal failings has been litigated in the Electoral College, now he must perform the difficult task of demonstrating the attributes that a great leader possesses:

https://blog.taskque.com/characteristics-good-leaders/

Honesty and Integrity. ...
Confidence
Inspire Others. ...
Commitment and Passion. ...
Good Communicator. ...
Decision-Making Capabilities. ...
Accountability. ...
Delegation and Empowerment. ...
Creativity and Innovation.
Empathy

I'm looking hard at this list, and I give him props for Confidence and Commitment & Passion. The remaining 8 are a Himalaya to climb in my book.

The ignorance I was referring to was that of the primary voters screaming that Trump was "THE ANSWER" to the nations ills, and would supposedly move the country to the right when he was nothing more than an immoral liberal populist. Their ignorance was also in thinking that giving Washington a middle finger by angrily nominating a man who was a part of the corrupt system already was somehow going to solve DC's problems.

I don't think that calling them ignorant is doing them a disservice. I think it's actually preferable to be ignorant than to willfully help the country lurch further left by electing a corrupt, immoral man.

JMHO.......

musiclady · « **Reply #66 on:** April 09, 2018, 04:43:19 pm »

Quote from: INVAR on April 09, 2018, 03:39:37 pm

One cannot save or retain a culture via elections. Elections are a reflection of the culture.

A culture that wants virtue, morality and liberty, will select representatives that reflect those values.

A culture that wants government to impose everything from payback to paychecks - selects rulers that will impose those values.

Here we are, being ruled by the latter - because the culture has rejected the foundations that made liberty possible.

Agree with every point.

Idiot · « **Reply #67 on:** April 09, 2018, 04:45:12 pm »

Not a snowballs chance in hades that the GOP will retain the House. Heck...I'm not even voting for my own repub representative after his voting for the budget. I'll sit that one out.

Concerned · « **Reply #68 on:** April 09, 2018, 04:50:08 pm »

Quote from: Night Hides Not on April 09, 2018, 04:04:35 pm

We don't live in a vacuum, so I will continue to praise Trump when he's right, and voice my disagreement when he's in the wrong. I expect him to be a leader this country needs, not a bully given to tweetstorms engaging in personal attacks. The issue of his personal failings has been litigated in the Electoral College, now he must perform the difficult task of demonstrating the attributes that a great leader possesses:

https://blog.taskque.com/characteristics-good-leaders/

Honesty and Integrity. ...
Confidence
Inspire Others. ...
Commitment and Passion. ...
Good Communicator. ...
Decision-Making Capabilities. ...
Accountability. ...
Delegation and Empowerment. ...
Creativity and Innovation.
Empathy

I'm looking hard at this list, and I give him props for Confidence and Commitment & Passion. The remaining 8 are a Himalaya to climb in my book.

@Night Hides Not

I agree completely with your assessment of the President against those 10 leadership characteristics. I, too, give him high marks on Confidence and Commitment & Passion, but low marks on the balance. This is surprising to me because I really expected high Creativity and Innovation particularly on deal-making and Good Communications. Instead, itâ€™s become clear to me the President just lacks the attention span and attention-to-detail to effectively engage in political deal-making, and the messages and policy coming out of his Administration are often muddled and contradictory.

Iâ€™m particularly surprised and disappointed in this, but at this point, I donâ€™t expect a 70+ year old man to learn and significantly improve these skills. If he could, Iâ€™d be slightly more optimistic about the mid-terms, but his poor leadership skills, stupid tweets, and petty squabbles simply give fodder and motivation to â€œThe Resistanceâ€. Iâ€™m afraid the US House of Representatives is likely going blue in November.

sneakypete · « **Reply #69 on:** April 09, 2018, 10:29:49 pm »

No big deal. Blacks were never anything but a fashion accessory for those people,anyhow. They just needed them to "prove" how "evolved" they are,but that was 20 + years ago. Now they have moved on to homosexual rights,transgender rights,brown power,etc,etc,etc.

Chosen Daughter · « **Reply #70 on:** April 10, 2018, 01:22:40 am »

Quote from: Night Hides Not on April 09, 2018, 04:04:35 pm

I think you're paying Trump voters a disservice when you describe them as "ignorant". Trump was (is) their vessel for giving DC a double bird. IMO, they held their noses, closed their eyes, and covered their ears while shouting "he's no Hillary!!" after they boarded the Trump Train.

That is not ignorance, that is a conscious decision they made in casting their lot with such an immoral man. They have no choice but to ride it out, much like those evangelical leaders who expected a sea change of morality when Trump became President.

We don't live in a vacuum, so I will continue to praise Trump when he's right, and voice my disagreement when he's in the wrong. I expect him to be a leader this country needs, not a bully given to tweetstorms engaging in personal attacks. The issue of his personal failings has been litigated in the Electoral College, now he must perform the difficult task of demonstrating the attributes that a great leader possesses:

https://blog.taskque.com/characteristics-good-leaders/

Honesty and Integrity. ...
Confidence
Inspire Others. ...
Commitment and Passion. ...
Good Communicator. ...
Decision-Making Capabilities. ...
Accountability. ...
Delegation and Empowerment. ...
Creativity and Innovation.
Empathy

I'm looking hard at this list, and I give him props for Confidence and Commitment & Passion. The remaining 8 are a Himalaya to climb in my book.

No, I don't think so. They made a choice in the Primary to vote for the immoral one.

sneakypete · « **Reply #71 on:** April 10, 2018, 01:28:45 am »

Quote from: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on April 09, 2018, 03:51:55 am

Tax cut... for some, maybe. Yet to be seen.

Defense increases... Can we really afford them? How about reducing our "defense" spending by stopping subsidizing a vast amount of global military spending (and saving lots of American lives in the process)?

Serious steps towards better securing the border... Promising "news" about using the military to secure the border recently. Hope it's true, but unfortunately there's no reason to believe anything Trump says.

Progress with North Korea... Will Madelline Halfbright be there for the toast?

Possible progress in the middle east... Possible, or progress?

@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

Depends on your POV. If you are a RINO that thinks the Bush Crime Family were just peachy-keen,you think they have done nothing.

If your POV is based on promoting actual conservative programs,you are as giddy as a school girl.

InHeavenThereIsNoBeer · « **Reply #72 on:** April 10, 2018, 04:04:00 am »

Quote from: sneakypete on April 10, 2018, 01:28:45 am

@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

Depends on your POV. If you are a RINO that thinks the Bush Crime Family were just peachy-keen,you think they have done nothing.

If your POV is based on promoting actual conservative programs,you are as giddy as a school girl.

No, POV doesn't mean jack.

The list of "accomplishments" I responded to were almost all either false, or simply promises (and we know what a Trump promise is worth).

As an actual Conservative, I'm pleasantly surprised Trump hasn't swung far left as I expected. But he's basically Bush III (or IV, if you count 0 as III). None of the Bushes made me giddy, not even this one.

sneakypete · « **Reply #73 on:** April 10, 2018, 04:16:32 pm »

Quote

No, POV doesn't mean jack.

@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

It means EVERYTHING,bubba. Your own "she doesn't sweat much for a fat girl" POV illustrates your prejudices. No matter WHAT Trump accomplishes,it will never be good enough to suit you.

Please tell us who YOUR choice was.

libertybele · « **Reply #74 on:** April 10, 2018, 06:19:00 pm »

Quote from: Chosen Daughter on April 10, 2018, 01:22:40 am

No, I don't think so. They made a choice in the Primary to vote for the immoral one.

They made a conscious decision in the primary to not only vote for the immoral one, but disregarded his liberalism and failed to support the true conservative. They not only tossed morality aside but they tossed conservatism aside. Cruz was correct; "those who bolstered Trump WILL bear that responsibility going forward"!