Author Topic: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry  (Read 3303 times)

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2018, 06:20:13 pm »
https://www.heritage.org/social-security/report/postal-pension-refund-disguised-taxpayer-bailout

Article on this issue in 2012, long BEFORE Trump and long before USPS carrying Amazon packages

"Postal Pension “Refund” Is a Disguised Taxpayer Bailout   |   June 12, 2012

David John

Former Senior Research Fellow in Retirement Security and Financial Institutions

David is a former Senior Research Fellow in Retirement Security and Financial Institutions.

Abstract: Calls to refund “overpayments” by the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) to the retirement of postal workers are misguided. The estimates of overpayments are inflated by overly optimistic assumptions, as recent years have demonstrated. A refund would leave taxpayers on the hook for future shortfalls in USPS retirement funding. The better choice is to follow the private-sector practice of using the current surplus—whatever it is—to defray future retirement payments. Instead of giving the USPS a questionable refund, Congress should require it to make comprehensive reforms that recognize new realities and enable it to restructure its operations accordingly.

With the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) nearly out of funds, a chorus of voices in Washington, including the USPS itself, are saying that the government-owned enterprise is owed a refund for the billions of dollars of supposed overpayments of its retirement obligations. Some even claim that these “accounting errors” are the primary cause of the USPS’s financial distress, rather than any fundamental change in the business of mail.

These arguments are fundamentally wrong. Providing refunds to the USPS would not only allow it to postpone vitally needed reforms, but leave taxpayers on the hook for future shortfalls in the USPS pension fund if it cannot meet its obligations.

USPS Retirement Funding

The debate over postal retirement funding involves three systems: the Civil Service Retirement System, the Federal Employees Retirement System, and the Retiree Health Benefits Fund. Each of these involves distinct issues:

-The USPS claims that it overfunded its share of the newer Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) by $11.4 billion. While some level of surplus exists, the estimate of $11.4 billion is based on overly optimistic assumptions. Rather than refunding the amount, FERS should retain that surplus and use it to offset future USPS payments. If the USPS receives the refund it wants as provided by postal reform bills pending in Congress, the retirement plan would likely become seriously underfunded when economic conditions change, and taxpayers would be forced to make up the difference.
 
-Similarly, the USPS has advanced the myth that an unfair and incorrect pension funding formula has forced it to overpay the old Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) by as much as $75 billion. The USPS is wrong. The funding formula was set by law more than 40 years ago, and both the Government Accountability Office (GAO) and the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) have firmly rejected the USPS claims.

-Lastly, the USPS is disputing its contributions to the Retiree Health Benefits Fund. In 2006, Congress required the USPS to fully fund future retiree health benefits through a series of payments over 10 years on a pay-as-you-go basis. As with the other funds, prefunding these promised benefits is essential to protect taxpayers from the dangers of a shortfall.

The USPS Retirement System

When Congress created the USPS out of the old Post Office Department in 1971, the federal employees of the Post Office became employees of an independent self-funding entity. By law, both those employees and all of those hired since the creation of the USPS have been part of the federal retirement system. USPS employees receive a pension that is calculated using the same formula that is used to calculate the pensions of federal employees, and they are paid by the same fund, the federal Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund (CSRDF). This means that USPS retirees will receive a pension regardless of whether or not the USPS funds it. If the USPS fails to provide the funds, the taxpayers will pay for the pensions of USPS employees.

USPS employees first hired before 1984, including any transferred from the Post Office Department, are also part of the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS). This pension system pays a traditional defined benefit[1] based on the worker’s highest three years of earnings. The formula is graduated so that, the longer the individual is employed, the higher the proportion of income that is used to calculate their pensions. In general, CSRS employees do not pay Social Security taxes or receive Social Security benefits.

Since 1984, both federal and USPS employees have been part of the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS), a three-part plan that includes Social Security, a retirement savings system similar to a private 401(k) plan, and a fairly small defined-benefit pension. In addition to the USPS contributions to the CSRDF for the defined-benefit pension, it also matches employees’ retirement savings up to a set maximum.

The USPS funds the defined-benefit portions of both pension plans with an annual contribution equal to the amount of additional benefits its employees earned that year. These contributions are invested in special issue treasury bonds that pay interest. The USPS uses a formula developed by CSRDF actuaries to calculate the size of its contribution. If the USPS were to delay its payment, it would still be financially responsible for both the initial payment and any interest earnings lost because of the delay. In short, delay would only increase the USPS’s pension costs."

snip

#nevertrumpers are soooo obsessed with everything being about Trump. Truth is this issue is not new. What is new is a leader that steps up and does something, instead of letting it go on forever, unresolved, like government business as usual.

On Tuesdays, #nevertrumpers are cost-accountants /s
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Applewood

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2018, 06:21:07 pm »
If I were Amazon I'd give Trump a little economic lesson.

Amazon should cut way back on on USPS shipments and divert to other carriers.

If the USPS is really losing money on every package they'll save a huge amount of money. If not, well...

This whole controversy has nothing to do with the postal service losing money, but it has everything to do with an old man with the maturity of an 8 year old picking on someone and some company he doesn't like -- and who doesn't like him. 

I believe he is ramping up the nasties because signing that spending spree bill didn't go over so well for a lot of people.  He needs something to divert attention from the fact that he lied about that bill, broke his promises and failed to veto it when he could have.  So he picks a fight over something trivial to keep his faithful worshipers entertained and engaged.  The trouble is that this macho man dictator wannabe's antics are causing a lot of trouble for people who are not his enemies. 

And while he is engaged in this schoolyard spat, important issues like the hordes of illegal immigrants flodding our borders are being neglected.  Despite all the propaganda I keep hearing from Trump supporters about how he has defeated ISIS, issued a few executive orders and appointed an allegedly conservative judge to SCOTUS (by the way, where is this judge?  Seems he's been largely invisible), this president has done next to nothing except pick fights and spend too much time on Twitter.  He is a pretend president with apparently nothing else to do.

Offline ABX

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2018, 06:22:14 pm »
If I were Amazon I'd give Trump a little economic lesson.

Amazon should cut way back on on USPS shipments and divert to other carriers.

If the USPS is really losing money on every package they'll save a huge amount of money. If not, well...

They are already planning to. They are in the process of creating their own shipping service (and in many areas already do so).

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-amazon-developing-its-own-shipping-service-83740644075.html

In some areas close to distribution centers and major hubs, they are already hiring people for a shipping 'uber' type service called Amazon Flex. They are paying drivers up to $25/hour with flexible schedules.

https://flex.amazon.com/

These will seriously cut into USPS and other carriers if successful.



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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2018, 06:22:36 pm »
This crap is getting really annoying. The USPS/government sets pricing. Not the companies/people who use their services.

If the USPS is losing money on shipping packages then everyone who uses them is getting it below cost not just Amazon. Singling out Amazon is moronic.

It is up to the USPS to correct their pricing if that is an issue. And if it is, they've had plenty of time to do something about it.

Amazon is simply using the services offered - like everyone else that uses the USPS.

This twisting of simple fact is beyond disgusting. It is people with an agenda.

@DB from what I've read...the package delivery operation within the USPS is a bout the only profitable part of the Post Office these days. 

Quote
In 2017, shipping and packages revenue grew by $2.1 billion, an 11.8% increase over the previous year.

According to the USPS, much of that growth was thanks to e-commerce, making Amazon the USPS' knight in shining armor. Roughly two-thirds of Amazon packages pass through the USPS at some point in their delivery, making the e-commerce giant one of the USPS' biggest customers, Citi analysts said.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-amazon-post-office-deal-2018-4


It actually helps fund rural mail delivery.

Quote
Fixed costs aside, USPS package delivery is profitable, helping subsidize rural service and letter delivery. So there’s room for disagreement about whether the situation is actually unjust.

http://fortune.com/2017/07/16/amazon-postal-service-subsidy/


Amazon and the rest of the internet shopping genre could probably put the USPS out of business for good if they took away the profits made from package delivery and shifted their business entirely to the likes of UPS...FedEx and DHL...who would all be willing to see the increase in their bottom lines from such a move.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2018, 06:52:37 pm »
If I were Amazon I'd give Trump a little economic lesson.

Amazon should cut way back on on USPS shipments and divert to other carriers.

If the USPS is really losing money on every package they'll save a huge amount of money. If not, well...
@DB
I shop on Amazon regularly. They use several carriers in addition to the USPS. I've gotten goods from Amazon shipped via UPS and FedEx. I have
also gotten goods delivered by Amazon itself, via their Amazon Flex program of hiring local drivers to pick up and deliver goods shipped from or
via their regional distribution center. (We have one here in Las Vegas.)




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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2018, 07:08:09 pm »
#nevertrumpers are soooo obsessed with everything being about Trump. Truth is this issue is not new. What is new is a leader that steps up and does something, instead of letting it go on forever, unresolved, like government business as usual.

On Tuesdays, #nevertrumpers are cost-accountants /s

It is TRUMP who made all this noise about Amazon. Falsely claiming Amazon is somehow cheating on both the shipping and taxes.

Amazon doesn't set USPS prices. "Fixing" the USPS doesn't involve bashing Amazon as some sort of cheater. Fixing it only involves the USPS. Your leader is aiming at the wrong target and taking flak for it as he should. You trying to claim otherwise is patently false.


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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2018, 07:13:44 pm »
Trump’s ‘level playing field’ attacks on Amazon and the Marxism of Bernie Sanders, seems to have found common ground on this one.

Both the national socialists and the national populists are wrong on this. 

Kinda sad to see some so called Conservatives defending an attack on free market capitalism.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2018, 07:28:44 pm »
It is TRUMP who made all this noise about Amazon. Falsely claiming Amazon is somehow cheating on both the shipping and taxes.

Amazon doesn't set USPS prices. "Fixing" the USPS doesn't involve bashing Amazon as some sort of cheater. Fixing it only involves the USPS. Your leader is aiming at the wrong target and taking flak for it as he should. You trying to claim otherwise is patently false.

Truth Seeker is a << Characterization redacted >>. If you criticize Trump he feels personally attacked.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 07:59:02 pm by Mod5 »

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2018, 07:36:10 pm »
What Trump Is Getting Wrong About the Postal Service and Amazon

http://www.govexec.com/management/2018/04/what-trump-getting-wrong-about-postal-service-and-amazon/147136/

"The Postal Service must have all of its negotiated service agreements approved by its oversight body, the Postal Regulatory Commission, before they take effect. PRC ensures that in all agreements, the revenue generated will turn at least some profit compared to the associated costs USPS will incur. The regulators then review every agreement annually and before they are renewed to ensure ongoing compliance. PRC just released its annual compliance review for fiscal 2017 in March. The audit does not identify companies by name, but it found just four of its 846 agreements were out of compliance. USPS has already terminated three of them, and the fourth appeared to have no connection to Amazon."

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2018, 07:53:08 pm »
Strange.  Trump lied to you about the recently passed "budget."  What makes you think he's telling the truth about Amazon and the postal service?  You are being played  --  sucked into a reality TV presidency where nothing is as it seems.  When are Trump supporters going to wake up?
@Applewood

He lies constantly and some people believe him.  He lies, then causes chaos, which is his purpose - another chaos every day.  The Post Office made a deal with Amazon for a bulk rate like others do. Little Liar Trump is lying, trying to punish the owner for owning the Washington Post and for having more money than he does.

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2018, 07:54:26 pm »
Private companies and the government are not required by accounting principles to accrue 75 years worth. That was the 'silly democrat thing'
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-contract-usps-fact-checking-trump-tweets-amazon-post-office-03-31-2018/

According to standard accounting principles, companies are only required to accrue costs for their current retiree base.  This would be at most, one or two generations in the workforce.
https://www.actuary.org/pdf/pension/fundamentals_0704.pdf

The standards set for the USPS require that they accrue these costs for up to 5 additional generations- for retirees who haven't even been born yet, at that are employed by the system.

@AbaraXas the pension model that is dragging the Post Office down is very similar to the one that forced General Motors into bankruptcy.  Their pension fund was still paying for workers that retired 30 years ago IIRC.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline ABX

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2018, 08:07:19 pm »
@AbaraXas the pension model that is dragging the Post Office down is very similar to the one that forced General Motors into bankruptcy.  Their pension fund was still paying for workers that retired 30 years ago IIRC.

...and this one not only pays the current liability for pensions, but prepays for all future pensions up to 75 years.

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2018, 08:11:57 pm »
   With all due respect @Weird Tolkienish Figure My Family loves Trump as much, if not more than some of the most avid Trumpers here and I do share your dislike for the Man.  With that being said, I've found in order to avoid timeouts, It's best to keep the personal insults out of 'our' debate here just like in our homes, if just for the mutual respect of the Owner and her Mods.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2018, 08:20:09 pm »
...and this one not only pays the current liability for pensions, but prepays for all future pensions up to 75 years.

That's financial suicide.  More proof of how ruinous unions can be on business in this country.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2018, 08:23:56 pm »
That's financial suicide.  More proof of how ruinous unions can be on business in this country.

It has long been past the point of a government job being about providing a service. The goal now is a life long job/retirement program for those who can get in.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2018, 08:38:48 pm »
This crap is getting really annoying. The USPS/government sets pricing. Not the companies/people who use their services.

If the USPS is losing money on shipping packages then everyone who uses them is getting it below cost not just Amazon. Singling out Amazon is moronic.

It is up to the USPS to correct their pricing if that is an issue. And if it is, they've had plenty of time to do something about it.

Amazon is simply using the services offered - like everyone else that uses the USPS.

This twisting of simple fact is beyond disgusting. It is people with an agenda.

 :amen:

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Re: Trump is wrong about Amazon on all counts By Rich Lowry
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2018, 01:07:14 am »
...and this one not only pays the current liability for pensions, but prepays for all future pensions up to 75 years.
And just how do they know how many people they're going to employ in 75 years? They don't. They could say zero and there'd be no way to say they're wrong. Can you point to me any person who's going to be working for the postal service? Anyone? Of course not. All the ones that are already, or will in their lifetime, will be retired by then. Those that will be, if any, aren't born yet. No one can account for something that doesn't exist.

That excuse is a lame talking point from the Democrats who claimed the Republican Congress passed some bill in 2005 that put the postal service in this situation.
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