Author Topic: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’  (Read 58201 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #200 on: March 28, 2018, 02:38:44 am »
This is just insane.  Poster after poster is engaged in masturbatory fantasies about shooting the "gun grabbers".   No one is willing to rely on the Constitution and the rule of law,  it's just head for the bunker and get ready to rumble or die trying.     

What I've proposed is simple licensure and registration.  Not confiscation of "assault rifles".   If there are bills out there that promise the latter, I join with you in urging their unconstitutionality.   But for cryin' out loud,  let the system work.  The Heller decision showed that the system works.   I urge the codification of that decision,  but even if that offends you,  at least let this great Republic and its institutions protect you from tyranny as they were designed to do.   We are a nation of laws, not men.     
 
The Heller decision only showed that the level of Constitutional compliance has sunken to a new low, that the right to defend one's self and to own and carry arms for that purpose needed to be judicially affirmed.

What you have proposed (registration) is the historically consistent precursor to confiscation. It is the first step to the wholesale collection of the people's arms. I and others have provided examples from here in the US, to Australia, and others, not to mention the Weimar Republic and East Bloc, and in each case, the result has been the same: those records were used to confiscate registered arms.

Even the Canadian gun owners resisted long gun registration by noncompliance (not violence), as we have said we will also do. Somehow, in your distorted, bodily fluid soaked liberal fantasies, you have not only ignored historical precedent but continue to promote an infringement of the right and project your sexual level of excitement over the topic upon others. (Ick.Nasty image.)

We are indeed a nation of laws, but men make those laws and claim of late to interpret plain language to mean something it clearly does not. When men pull a right from a warm dark orifice and wave it as if they 'found' it in the Constitution, they have departed from their sworn task. That "right" does not pass the smell test.
The Right of the People to keep and bear Arms is not only far more clear than you would admit, but only the enforced ignorance of the American public via government approved education schemes would even allow any interpretation other than that which the Founders intended.

That somehow, in the phrases and paragraphs of the Constitution or the supporting documentation that any Right to shred the developing baby in the mother's womb could be found completely relies on ignorance of the documents, the Founders, the language, and original intent.

The Law, the concept, of the RKBA is not flawed, but the alleged interpretation sure is in many popular instances.
Ruling on the Constitutionality of such laws as would further infringe upon the Right, if done with a flawed interpretation of the original premise, will yield flawed rulings in many cases (Miller was a fine example, which ignored, even with the Militia interpretation of the 2nd, the martial utility of short barrelled shotguns in WWI .


As for laws, those laws only exist, along with any authority given them, by the consent of the people: the governed. If they are imposed against the will of the people, then they will be resisted, especially if they go against the documents argued to be the Supreme Law of the Land, second only to God's law, and His judgement.

While we have said that we will respond to violence in kind, who would not? None here, not even yourself, has debated the right to defend one's self, home, and family against marauders. Who would meekly surrender their lives, their property, their material safety to those who have come to loot it, even under color of law? Not happening, peaches.

While possible, we will quietly and nonviolently resist. Noncompliance is the first tool, the one which preserves the tools which may be needed for more serious resistance, something the Founders fully intended.

As for violent resistance to the confiscation of arms goes, the precedent has been established, whether at Lexington, or Bull Run, or on Pratt Street, the people will resist. It's the American way.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline edpc

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #201 on: March 28, 2018, 02:42:55 am »
Not if lawyers and Judges are able to twist the meanings written upon it.

I will not comply.


https://www.compliance.gov
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #203 on: March 28, 2018, 03:53:51 am »
Amazing that someone thinks it's "insane" that Americans would be willing to stand in the face of tryanny and defend their rights and freedoms from those that wish to take them away.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline INVAR

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #204 on: March 28, 2018, 04:19:22 am »
This is just insane.  Poster after poster is engaged in masturbatory fantasies about shooting the "gun grabbers".

Because that is the end-result of what you advocate.  At some point, the government you empower will have to force compliance - and at that point the bloodletting will begin and you will rue the day you were stupid enough to suggest anyone in government take advisement upon your bullshit.

   No one is willing to rely on the Constitution and the rule of law, 

You are not relying on the Constitution OR the rule of law.  You are advocating tyranny under the color of law with your stupid registration and licensing schemes that turn a right into a privilege granted by the state upon compliance with your idiotic ideas.

it's just head for the bunker and get ready to rumble or die trying.

Exactly.  Don't say you were not warned in advance about the consequences your harebrained tyrannical ideas will engender.

What I've proposed is simple licensure and registration.  Not confiscation of "assault rifles".

Same difference.  That is how we see and how we will treat your stupid idea.     License and registration is confiscation, and nothing you say or argue to the contrary is going to convince us otherwise.  We will not ever comply with the demand to register or license our arms - and we are not turning them in either.

You and your state come get them.

We will be waiting.

If there are bills out there that promise the latter, I join with you in urging their unconstitutionality.

Not that we don't believe you - but we don't believe you.  But you go ahead and urge when you feel the urge to do so.

But for cryin' out loud,  let the system work. 

The system is broken and we are not going to give your stupid idea a chance in the hands of a lawless government hellbent on it's own power.

at least let this great Republic and its institutions protect you from tyranny as they were designed to do.

You truly are an idiot to think this way.  None us are stupid enough to leave our liberty and safety in the hands of a corrupt government you want to empower to impose even greater tyranny.  You are the anti-Reagan, where government in your twisted world is the solution and not the problem.

What protects us from tyranny is ourselves and our willingness to stop tyrants with our guns that you want registered and confiscated.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline thackney

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #205 on: March 28, 2018, 12:29:01 pm »
As far as I am concerned, as long as you're licensed and register them (and don't use them to commit crimes), you can own as many kinds of guns as you like.

As far as I am concerned, as long as you're licensed and register them (and don't use them to commit crimes), you can own as many kinds of guns as you like.

If you commit crimes, with or without guns, you should be prosecuted.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #206 on: March 28, 2018, 01:23:08 pm »

What protects us from tyranny is ourselves and our willingness to stop tyrants with our guns that you want registered and confiscated.

We're not living under King George.  This is a Constitutional Republic,  with laws passed by the peoples' elected representatives.   "Tyrants" can be addressed through free and fair elections,  not by threatening to shoot your fellow citizens.

And once again, since you love to perpetuate lies - registration is not confiscation.   That sort of extremism does the cause of lawful gun ownership no good.     
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #207 on: March 28, 2018, 01:35:05 pm »
When the revolution starts the politicians and lawyers will the 1st to be shot.

Be afraid Jazz Be very afraid!   :smokin:

Hell, I should have been shot four weeks ago. 
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #208 on: March 28, 2018, 01:42:35 pm »
And once again, since you love to perpetuate lies - registration is not confiscation.   

We make no distinction between the two.  Registration is the same thing as confiscation AFAWC, regardless of what you claim.

And we will treat it as such.  We will regard those who propose such things to be overt domestic enemies deserving of nothing but contempt.

That sort of extremism does the cause of lawful gun ownership no good.     

We don't care that tyranny advocates like you think we are extreme.  Just get it through your thick skull that we're deadly serious about resisting your stupid ideas and a lot of bloodshed will be initiated if anyone in government is actually stupid enough to take you up on it. 
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #209 on: March 28, 2018, 01:51:37 pm »
Your rights are protected by our Constitution and system of governance better than any place else on earth.  Yet you still insist on your "right" to be a law unto yourself and threaten to shoot dead those with whom you disagree.   That is anarchy, sir.   You have no respect for this great nation.   
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Offline jpsb

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #210 on: March 28, 2018, 01:56:02 pm »
So much for common sense reform. The real agenda is complete confiscation of privately owned firearms.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 03:18:53 pm by jpsb »

Online mountaineer

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #211 on: March 28, 2018, 02:02:05 pm »
Quote
threaten to shoot dead those with whom you disagree.
Bullhockey. No one here has done so.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #212 on: March 28, 2018, 02:09:52 pm »
Your rights are protected by our Constitution and system of governance better than any place else on earth. 

Because people like me have guns to make sure people like you don't get to 'reasonably regulate' our rights out of existence.

Yet you still insist on your "right" to be a law unto yourself and threaten to shoot dead those with whom you disagree.   That is anarchy, sir.   

It's not a matter of disagreement, it's a matter of stopping tyrants like you attempting to infringe on our liberties under the color of law.  I give a rat's ass whether or not you think it anarchy.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #213 on: March 28, 2018, 02:12:36 pm »
Your rights are protected by our Constitution and system of governance better than any place else on earth. 

Tell that to LaVoy Finicum.  Oh, right...you can't because he's dead from all that protection provided by our system of governance.
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Offline jpsb

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #214 on: March 28, 2018, 02:20:02 pm »
Your rights are protected by our Constitution and system of governance better than any place else on earth.  Yet you still insist on your "right" to be a law unto yourself and threaten to shoot dead those with whom you disagree.   That is anarchy, sir.   You have no respect for this great nation.

Bull, the 1st is almost gone due to "hate speech" laws, the 4th is gone via "war on drugs" and patriot
act. The 2cd is fading fast with "common sense" gun control laws. The 6th is gone as is the 10th.

Offline LMAO

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #215 on: March 28, 2018, 02:33:44 pm »
Bull, the 1st is almost gone due to "hate speech" laws,

Were do we have “hate speech” laws? 
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #216 on: March 28, 2018, 02:58:43 pm »
Bullshit.  We are a nation of laws, not of men.
That response, in a nutshell, reinforces the need for the second amendment.  To protect our rights from those who wish to take them away.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline ABX

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #219 on: March 28, 2018, 03:34:42 pm »
That response, in a nutshell, reinforces the need for the second amendment.  To protect our rights from those who wish to take them away.

Of course we need the Second Amendment.   Indeed, as I've said on this thread,  the primary need is to STRENGTHEN the 2A by codifying the Heller decision.   (See, e.g., former Justice Stevens' recent comments as well as his dissenting opinion in Heller,  which was joined by three other Justices,  and construed the 2A in terms of the militia, not any individual natural right of self defense.

But the hysteria on this thread is appalling to me.   I understand anger directed at proposals to confiscate firearms,  but the threats of violence here are extended to mere registration.   Registration is, without doubt,  consistent with both the 2A and Scalia's opinion in Heller which found the individual RKBA.  It is, simply put, not an infringement.   So the anarchists will start shooting even in the face of reforms that are PERFECTLY CONSTITUTIONAL?   

That's insane.   
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 03:35:46 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline thackney

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #220 on: March 28, 2018, 03:47:00 pm »
the primary need is to STRENGTHEN the 2A by codifying the Heller decision

I would never be in favor of beginning the process of modifying the second amendment because I could never trust the politicians involved in the process.

Those with ability to strengthen it would have the same ability to greatly weaken it.
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Offline goatprairie

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #221 on: March 28, 2018, 03:54:02 pm »
This is from justice Thomas Cooley in the 1880s


"that the right to keep and bear arms was only guaranteed to the militia; but this would be an interpretation not warranted by the intent.  The militia, as has been elsewhere explained, consists of those persons who, under the law, are liable to the performance of military duty, and are officered and enrolled for service when called upon.  But the law may make provision for the enrolment of all who are fit to perform military duty, or of a small number only, or it may wholly omit to make any provision at all; and if the right were limited to those enrolled, the purpose of this guaranty might be defeated altogether by the action or neglect to act of the government it was meant to hold in check.  The meaning of the provision undoubtedly is, that the people, from whom the militia must be taken, shall have the right to keep and bear arms, and they need no permission or regulation of law for the purpose. (my bold) But this enables the government to have a well regulated militia; for to bear arms implies something more than the mere keeping; it implies the learning to handle and use them in a way that makes those who keep them ready for their efficient use; in other words, it implies the right to meet for voluntary discipline in arms, observing in doing so the laws of public order."

The Founders assumed that people would recognize the basic right of the people to keep and bear arms and that the militia would be drawn from those people.  They certainly didn't mean that only a militia, beholden to the state, would have the right to keep and bear arms.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 03:55:07 pm by goatprairie »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #222 on: March 28, 2018, 03:54:28 pm »
Its impossible to 'repeal' a right enumerated in the BOR. To think otherwise belies a fundamental misunderstanding of the basis of the Constitution itself.

Although its not surprising a leftist would believe otherwise.

Huh?  Of course it is possible to repeal an Amendment in the Bill of Rights.  Nothing in the Constitution prohibits that, nor does the Constitution give any particular exalted status to the first 10 amendments.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #223 on: March 28, 2018, 04:05:15 pm »
But the hysteria on this thread is appalling to me.   

Good.  It means you are afraid that we aren't going to just suck up your ideas or comply with them should anyone be stupid enough to enact them.

I understand anger directed at proposals to confiscate firearms,  but the threats of violence here are extended to mere registration.

Yup.  Because registration or licensing is going to be considered and depicted as the same thing as confiscation AFAWAC.  Because it will be, and we are not going to afford you or the Beast in D.C the tools or precedent to do so.

Registration is, without doubt,  consistent with both the 2A and Scalia's opinion in Heller which found the individual RKBA.  It is, simply put, not an infringement. 

Well we say it is.  And we will treat it the same way we would a confiscation order.

We will not comply.

You will have to empower your government to start killing those who refuse to comply.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline goatprairie

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #224 on: March 28, 2018, 04:05:39 pm »
Huh?  Of course it is possible to repeal an Amendment in the Bill of Rights.  Nothing in the Constitution prohibits that, nor does the Constitution give any particular exalted status to the first 10 amendments.
I think what Skeeter meant was the basic right can't be repealed irrerespective of the constitution. Since basic rights are natural/God-given, they can't be repealed.