Author Topic: Uber self-driving car kills Arizona woman, realizing worst fears of the new tech  (Read 6891 times)

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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It is Uber that is using Arizona.  Google has been testing its technology, with very positive results, in both New York and California for a number of years.  Tesla is also testing driverless technology, mostly in California.

I wasn't aware I mentioned Google.  I've seen Google cars around Phoenix, but they may not be testing.

I read a few stories looking into things for this thread, and AZ is pushing to be the most advanced market for driverless cars. 

I correct myself!  Waymo is the Google contraption, and they are indeed taking test drivers now...in Phoenix. I'd sign up but I already have a job.

https://waymo.com/

(Scroll down to "Early Riders" button.
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Offline Suppressed

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The fact that a robot made a mistake doesn't make them not worth using. They are still far better drivers than humans. Humans will make a million mistakes for every one the robot makes.
@Dexter

In the same day that self-driving car killed the woman, 16 pedestrians were killed by human-driven cars.  Do you really think there are 16 times as many human-driven cars!?!





 :tongue2:
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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@Dexter

In the same day that self-driving car killed the woman, 16 pedestrians were killed by human-driven cars.  Do you really think there are 16 times as many human-driven cars!?!


 :tongue2:

"There's lies, damned lies and statistics!"
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline LauraTXNM

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@Dexter

In the same day that self-driving car killed the woman, 16 pedestrians were killed by human-driven cars.  Do you really think there are 16 times as many human-driven cars!?!

 :tongue2:

Ooh, nice one ;)!
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Online mountaineer

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Wait, what?
Quote
Felon who was behind the wheel of self-driving Uber when it killed pedestrian as she wheeled her bike across a road

    *Rafaela Vasquez, 44, was in control of the self-driving Volvo SUV on Sunday
    *She is one of Uber's 'safety drivers' and is a safeguard for the self-driving car
    *Vasquez has felony convictions for attempted armed robbery after plot with Blockbuster video store co-worker to seize their own shop's taking's at gunpoint
    *Vasquez was convicted under her original name Rafael but now identifies as a woman
    *Relatives said she was troubled and had contemplated suicide when she was first jailed
    *She has told police she did not see Elaine Herzberg, 49, until it was too late
    *Herzberg walked out in front of the vehicle with her bag-laden bicycle, Vasquez has told cops
    *Videos taken by cameras mounted on the Uber support her story, police say
    *No one has been charged yet but the investigation into her death is ongoing

... Vasquez attempted to rob a Blockbuster video store with an imitation firearm.

At the same time, Vasquez was convicted of unsworn falsification committed in 1999, meaning she made a false statement to a public officials, and received a concurrent one year sentence.

At the time she was known as Rafael and identified as male. It is not known when she transitioned to female.   ...

Read more: dailymail.co.uk


Apparently hadn't funded the electrolysis yet.

   
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 12:41:13 pm by mountaineer »
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Offline WingNot

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Wait, what?
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5524031/PICTURED-Felon-wheel-killer-self-driving-Uber-car.html#ixzz5AKmRkeP4


Apparently hadn't funded the electrolysis yet.

    Herzberg walked out in front of the vehicle with her bag-laden bicycle, Vasquez has told cops
    Videos taken by cameras mounted on the Uber support her story, police say
    No one has been charged yet but the investigation into her death is ongoing


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5524031/PICTURED-Felon-wheel-killer-self-driving-Uber-car.html#ixzz5AKmILugz
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Jeez.  Uber has a vetting problem about to hit the fan.
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Online DB

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Jeez.  Uber has a vetting problem about to hit the fan.

Transing minority somethingerothers (any spelling suggestions?) that have a first hand experience with the law may be what Uber is looking for.

Offline WingNot

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Transing minority somethingerothers (any spelling suggestions?) that have a first hand experience with the law may be what Uber is looking for.

Who but uber would hire freaks, geeks and social degenerates.
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Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Wait, what?
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5524031/PICTURED-Felon-wheel-killer-self-driving-Uber-car.html#ixzz5AKmRkeP4


Apparently hadn't funded the electrolysis yet.

    Herzberg walked out in front of the vehicle with her bag-laden bicycle, Vasquez has told cops
    Videos taken by cameras mounted on the Uber support her story, police say
    No one has been charged yet but the investigation into her death is ongoing


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5524031/PICTURED-Felon-wheel-killer-self-driving-Uber-car.html#ixzz5AKmILugz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Online Polly Ticks

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Wait, what?
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5524031/PICTURED-Felon-wheel-killer-self-driving-Uber-car.html#ixzz5AKmRkeP4


Apparently hadn't funded the electrolysis yet.

    Herzberg walked out in front of the vehicle with her bag-laden bicycle, Vasquez has told cops
    Videos taken by cameras mounted on the Uber support her story, police say
    No one has been charged yet but the investigation into her death is ongoing


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5524031/PICTURED-Felon-wheel-killer-self-driving-Uber-car.html#ixzz5AKmILugz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Wow. 

I wonder when we're going to see the headlines screaming "Diversity Fail? Transgender Convicted Felon Blamed for Killing Pedestrian with Uber Self-Driving Car".
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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We need to stop selling these murderous cars that commit murder.
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Offline Suppressed

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Wow. 

I wonder when we're going to see the headlines screaming "Diversity Fail? Transgender Convicted Felon Blamed for Killing Pedestrian with Uber Self-Driving Car".

@Polly Ticks

Really!


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Offline Applewood

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This story points the finger at the pedestrian, not the vehicle or the operator:

Arizona police: Pedestrian stepped in front of self-driving Uber before crash

Police in Tempe, Arizona, say early indications are that a woman struck and killed by a self-driving Uber care had abruptly stepped in front of it, according to a report in the San Francisco Chronicle.

The victim, Elaine Heerzberg, 49, suddenly walked from a center median into a lane of traffic before being hit by the car operating in autonomous mode, Sylvia Moir, police chief in Tempe, told the newspaper.

"The driver said it was like a flash, the person walked out in front of them," Moir told the newspaper of the human backup driver.

...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uber-self-driving-car-crash-arizona-police-say-pedestrian-stepped-in-front/

***

Seems to me regardless of whether the driver was human or a robot, this accident was unavoidable.  Neither human nor machine could have reacted fast enough if the victim ran out into the street that quickly.


Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Transgender uber drivers piloting autonomous vehicles... welcome to the FUTURE!

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I have to say, it's not really fair to target this guy/girl/whatever, nor is it fair to blame the car. Sounds like it was the person who got out in front of the car.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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I have to say, it's not really fair to target this guy/girl/whatever, nor is it fair to blame the car. Sounds like it was the person who got out in front of the car.

Apparently she was pushing a bicycle loaded with bags.  At 10PM.  Stepped off a median. :shrug:

Who or what this driver is is a bit of a side issue.  Uber has boasted about vetting drivers and passengers, and it's looking like they only vet the passengers.  Bad for business.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 02:30:57 pm by Cyber Liberty »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Well....it was ten at night, and it could have been in a gap in the streetlights.  Odds are the "safety" guy didn't see her either.  I had a friend hit somebody on his motorcycle that time of night not far from where this happened.
If you ride, you are better off to assume that you will not be seen. I could write a book of incidents where car drivers did stupid things that only avoided killing or maiming me because I expected them to do the worst. As a rider, it is difficult to not take on a hostile attitude, some of the maneuvers are so dangerous to you. Only observing that people will do the same in the presence of other 4 wheeled vehicles will keep that paranoia at bay.

As for 'safety drivers', no one not involved in operating the vehicle will be 'up to speed' on what is going on outside of it. You have added in steps which slow reaction time, in that they have to realize there is a problem AND realize that the AI isn't responding correctly to it before taking over. If they were driving, one step is eliminated, and the reaction time is shortened. Add in the complacency of letting the car drive, and that lag is increased. Have someone step/run out between parked vehicles, and there isn't sufficient time to react.

WHile this tech may be good enough for limited access roadways/lanes, Frankly, I do not see it ever being able to anticipate and react to every possible situation when dealing with humans in the environment.

If you don't want to drive, call a cab, hire a chauffeur, or take the bus....
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Offline jpsb

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The victim, Elaine Heerzberg, 49, suddenly walked from a center median into a lane of traffic before being hit by the car operating in autonomous mode

I am blaming the robot. I drive much differently when I see a person in the center median since I know they are trying to cross the road.

Offline jpsb

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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If you ride, you are better off to assume that you will not be seen. I could write a book of incidents where car drivers did stupid things that only avoided killing or maiming me because I expected them to do the worst. As a rider, it is difficult to not take on a hostile attitude, some of the maneuvers are so dangerous to you. Only observing that people will do the same in the presence of other 4 wheeled vehicles will keep that paranoia at bay.

As for 'safety drivers', no one not involved in operating the vehicle will be 'up to speed' on what is going on outside of it. You have added in steps which slow reaction time, in that they have to realize there is a problem AND realize that the AI isn't responding correctly to it before taking over. If they were driving, one step is eliminated, and the reaction time is shortened. Add in the complacency of letting the car drive, and that lag is increased. Have someone step/run out between parked vehicles, and there isn't sufficient time to react.

WHile this tech may be good enough for limited access roadways/lanes, Frankly, I do not see it ever being able to anticipate and react to every possible situation when dealing with humans in the environment.

If you don't want to drive, call a cab, hire a chauffeur, or take the bus....

Sorry, I was not clear.  My friend was riding a motorcycle and hit a pedestrian.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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The victim, Elaine Heerzberg, 49, suddenly walked from a center median into a lane of traffic before being hit by the car operating in autonomous mode

I am blaming the robot. I drive much differently when I see a person in the center median since I know they are trying to cross the road.

According to the Guardian story about the felon driver, the car was being driven by the human at the time of impact.  We seem to have some confusion in this regard.  At 10PM I wonder if he/she/it even could see the pedestrian in the median.  I question if there was sufficient street lighting at the time.  I haven't seen any photos of the crash scene.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline WingNot

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According to the Guardian story about the felon driver, the car was being driven by the human at the time of impact.  We seem to have some confusion in this regard.  At 10PM I wonder if he/she/it even could see the pedestrian in the median.  I question if there was sufficient street lighting at the time.  I haven't seen any photos of the crash scene.

Uber has dash cam video of the kill.   A FOIR should get it on youtube lickity split.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Uber has dash cam video of the kill.   A FOIR should get it on youtube lickity split.

You slay me Wingy...lol.  You know that sucker's gonna be folded away in an Uber lawyer's kit bag before you can say, "Rumpelstiltskin."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online DB

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This story points the finger at the pedestrian, not the vehicle or the operator:

Arizona police: Pedestrian stepped in front of self-driving Uber before crash

Police in Tempe, Arizona, say early indications are that a woman struck and killed by a self-driving Uber care had abruptly stepped in front of it, according to a report in the San Francisco Chronicle.

The victim, Elaine Heerzberg, 49, suddenly walked from a center median into a lane of traffic before being hit by the car operating in autonomous mode, Sylvia Moir, police chief in Tempe, told the newspaper.

"The driver said it was like a flash, the person walked out in front of them," Moir told the newspaper of the human backup driver.

...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uber-self-driving-car-crash-arizona-police-say-pedestrian-stepped-in-front/

***

Seems to me regardless of whether the driver was human or a robot, this accident was unavoidable.  Neither human nor machine could have reacted fast enough if the victim ran out into the street that quickly.

That very well may be the case. A difference might have been that a human seeing someone standing in the median would slow down or change lanes to increase the margin of safety.

Was the woman (the pedestrian) on a cell phone at the time?

Offline WingNot

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You slay me Wingy...lol.  You know that sucker's gonna be folded away in an Uber lawyer's kit bag before you can say, "Rumpelstiltskin."

LOL.  Well...they have already turned it over to the Popo to clear the driver and their good <cough> name,,,  Having said that... it mean it is in the public domain.   
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