Trump unscripted and unleashed in Pennsylvania stump speech

[XenaLee]

My husband’s mom was in college then at UCDavis, just going about her business ;).  I knot there were people like the Ayers; there are always extremists on all sides.   There were stupid things about the 1968 Chicago Convention and the trial of the Chicago Seven.  But that doesn’t mean everything the Hippies thought was terrible.  I don’t like the Black Panthers, but cancelling open-carry in CA because the govt didn’t want them patrolling Oakland wasn’t right, either.   

Antifa and BLM have completely relinquished any moral point by engaging in violence.  I think it’s because they’re kids, whose natural viewpoint tends to black-and-white.  Any time someone believes their way is the ONLY way, they’re ripe for corruption.  It’s true in politics as much as religion.

I know this ^^^  is all over the place, but I just don’t subscribe to such broad pronouncements. 
And I call myself a progressive and a liberal, though I’m not a Communist. I don’t believe in ceding that ground.

There it is.   Thanks for the admission.

On which issues are you the most progressive and liberal?  I'm curious.

@LauraTXNM

[INVAR]

Any and all of the above I would think.

Best of all Trump is not using the tried and fail usual republican response. Head low.. I'm sorry.... I like his "Bite Me"... response... give 'Em Hell Trump is fine with me.

'Bout time... if it make liberal/regressive heads go all "Splody Splody... Blam Blam"  ... Good. Same for R's who cannot stand dishing back what has always come our way.

And people wonder why I post pictures from 1930's Italy and Germany depicting a people supporting a strong man they have devoted themselves to because such men promised to give hell to their devotees' domestic enemies.

I think we're going to end up with a single celebrity reality star party with two different names and slightly different priorities.

Yes.  I imagine we will soon devolve to the point that it will be a 'choice' between a Hitler and a Stalin - and remember - we must choose the lesser evil, because  the 'perfect' is the enemy of the good. 

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Also true.  So where do we go from here?  About the only thing I've come up with, is volunteering with kids every chance I get.

I have no idea.  Keep talking, keep hoping it will get better, I guess.

[INVAR]

I'm pretty sure @INVAR hates Flake, McCain, and Graham too.

Oh come on now.... you MUST support the party above all else!  To oppose Lady Lindsey, McCainaic or Flakey - is to be paranoid that they are liberals.

[Fantom]

Oh come on now.... you MUST support the party above all else!  To oppose Lady Lindsey, McCainaic or Flakey - is to be paranoid that they are liberals.

That went over my head, probably why I was not in sink with McCains praise of obama.

[LauraTXNM]

There it is.   Thanks for the admission.

On which issues are you the most progressive and liberal?  I'm curious.

@LauraTXNM

--I don't have a problem with gay marriage, for one thing. 
--I'm probably in favor of a bigger safety net than some people here *to help those who really need it.* 
--I think we need some kind of health care reform to ensure everyone has healthcare -- I saw this need firsthand with my sister. 
--I think our immigration needs have changed greatly and we need to reform our system (more like Canada), but I think DACA is sensible and I don't like demonizing people who came here for jobs (we were happy to have them for a long time).  I grew up on the border, so ;(
--Drug legalization and more importantly treatment is a huge issue.
--I believe in public education but believe in serious reform.
--I believe strongly in birth control education and access.  I believe in the old "abortion should be safe, legal, and VERY RARE".  I have personal experience there ;(.

I think if we did most things using actuarial tables, nearly everyone would be angry, but things would probably be better run and more effective.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

When you have GOP politicians who side with the DEMS every chance they get, why do they then continue to run under the GOP umbrella?  For what purpose?  If they no longer agree with the GOP platform, agenda or outlook for the future of their party and feel that the DEMS are correct in their thinking, then why do they continue to stay with the GOP party?  The only logical reason is that they remain in the GOP party so that the votes that they cast makes it impossible for GOP bills to pass and that they become virtually irrelevant as a party.

So, yes, RINO's like Flake, McCain, McConnell and Graham are worse than the DEMS as they are obstructionists within their own party.  I'm not by any means saying that they should not vote according to how they think or feel, but if their feelings or thinking align more with the DEMS more often then not,  then they should join them!

I do not doubt your sincerity, but from my perspective it is wrong to say Flake, McCain, or Graham "side with the DEMS every chance they get," or  "they no longer agree with the GOP platform, agenda or outlook for the future of their party and feel that the DEMS are correct in their thinking."  It's just my opinion, a lot of people agree with you, but most of them are Republicans.  I no longer am.  I'm just a pro-God, pro-life, pro-business, pro-military, defender of the 2nd Amendment...as is Flake, McCain, McConnell, and Graham in my opinion.

[LauraTXNM]

I do not doubt your sincerity, but from my perspective it is wrong to say Flake, McCain, or Graham "side with the DEMS every chance they get," or  "they no longer agree with the GOP platform, agenda or outlook for the future of their party and feel that the DEMS are correct in their thinking."  It's just my opinion, a lot of people agree with you, but most of them are Republicans.  I no longer am.  I'm just a pro-God, pro-life, pro-business, pro-military, defender of the 2nd Amendment...as is Flake, McCain, McConnell, and Graham in my opinion.

Isn't it funny?  I've always thought of McCain, McConnell, Rubio, and Graham as Republicans, with Flake, Lee, and Cruz being more of Conservatives.  I think if my mother were still here, identifying as a Republican, she'd favor the former group over the latter.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Speaking the truth to forgotten Americans --- and doing it fearlessly on hallowed Democrat ground.

No one since Ronald Reagan has even attempted this.

I'm very proud of our President.

@goodwithagun

Speaking truth to forgotten Americans.  That should be on a bumpersticker.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Isn't it funny?  I've always thought of McCain, McConnell, Rubio, and Graham as Republicans, with Flake, Lee, and Cruz being more of Conservatives.  I think if my mother were still here, identifying as a Republican, she'd favor the former group over the latter.

I don't know how far back your political memory goes but there was a time when democrats were thought to be men like Senator Joe Lieberman, Senator Zell Miller, and Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan.  Senator Lieberman was the Democrat VP candidate in 2000 and later he spoke at McCain's 2008 GOP convention.  Sen Miller spoke at Dubya Bush's Convention in 2004.  The moderates were pushed out by the more radical base when Dubya won in 2000.  In 2000 moderate Bush beat moderate Gore.  The democrats thought they lost because they did not offer a significant difference to Bush.  The democrats went through their purge and it has cost them majorities in the Congress, Governors, and state legislatures.

The GOP seems hellbent on duplicating the process.

[LauraTXNM]

I don't know how far back your political memory goes but there was a time when democrats were thought to be men like Senator Joe Lieberman, Senator Zell Miller, and Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan.  Senator Lieberman was the Democrat VP candidate in 2000 and later he spoke at McCain's 2008 GOP convention.  Sen Miller spoke at Dubya Bush's Convention in 2004.  The moderates were pushed out by the more radical base when Dubya won in 2000.  In 2000 moderate Bush beat moderate Gore.  The democrats thought they lost because they did not offer a significant difference to Bush.  The democrats went through their purge and it has cost them majorities in the Congress, Governors, and state legislatures.

The GOP seems hellbent on duplicating the process.

I was born in 1970, so I just barely remember President Carter and the killer swimming bunny who attacked his rowboat ;).  So I was just aging in during the Clinton years -- good times, good times ;(.  I will never forgive Bill Clinton for all the damage he caused.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I was born in 1970, so I just barely remember President Carter and the killer swimming bunny who attacked his rowboat ;).  So I was just aging in during the Clinton years -- good times, good times ;(.  I will never forgive Bill Clinton for all the damage he caused.

! No longer available

[libertybele]

Isn't it funny?  I've always thought of McCain, McConnell, Rubio, and Graham as Republicans, with Flake, Lee, and Cruz being more of Conservatives.  I think if my mother were still here, identifying as a Republican, she'd favor the former group over the latter.

Regardless, ALL those that you named were elected under the Republican umbrella; indeed some are more conservative or more liberal than others. However, there are certain issues that they campaigned on that their constituents expect them to follow through with or would at least hope that they would follow through on.  So when those Republicans don't vote in accordance to what they campaigned on and instead their vote reflects the ideals of the opposite party, then they merely become Republican In Name Only or RINO's. 

Granted, there are divisions or factions within the GOP; RINO's, Establishment Republicans, Constitutional Conservatives, Tea Party Conservatives, etc., but again they ALL fall under the GOP umbrella.  When we go to the polls, that's the choice that we have; we either vote GOP or DEM. So .... IF those that we vote for aren't going to follow through and vote along with the majority of the GOP members and vote along with the DEMS more often then not, then the only thing they are truly doing is obstructing their own party.  McCain's vote on Bammycare was a prime example.

[LauraTXNM]

Oh, @Once-Ler, that was so great!  I needed the laugh -- thanks!  I always associated that story with Monty Python ;).

[libertybele]

I do not doubt your sincerity, but from my perspective it is wrong to say Flake, McCain, or Graham "side with the DEMS every chance they get," or  "they no longer agree with the GOP platform, agenda or outlook for the future of their party and feel that the DEMS are correct in their thinking."  It's just my opinion, a lot of people agree with you, but most of them are Republicans.  I no longer am.  I'm just a pro-God, pro-life, pro-business, pro-military, defender of the 2nd Amendment...as is Flake, McCain, McConnell, and Graham in my opinion.

Ok. And, I'm not trying to challenge you here, but merely asking so that I understand.  You state that you are no longer a Republican.  So, when you go to the polls, you have primarily (other than vote 3rd party)  two choices; GOP or DEM. Do you then vote DEM or vote for whom you feel is the best candidate regardless of party?

[Fantom]

I don't know how far back your political memory goes but there was a time when democrats were thought to be men like Senator Joe Lieberman, Senator Zell Miller, and Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan.  Senator Lieberman was the Democrat VP candidate in 2000 and later he spoke at McCain's 2008 GOP convention.  Sen Miller spoke at Dubya Bush's Convention in 2004.  The moderates were pushed out by the more radical base when Dubya won in 2000.  In 2000 moderate Bush beat moderate Gore.  The democrats thought they lost because they did not offer a significant difference to Bush.  The democrats went through their purge and it has cost them majorities in the Congress, Governors, and state legislatures.

The GOP seems hellbent on duplicating the process.

I know those three. One is not like the others. Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman were what one would call a "moderate" Republican or a RINO if they got elected as a Republican.

Patrick Moynihan was not in that group at all. Moynihan was a dyed in the blue Socialist/democrat. But he was an honorable man. A very rare specimen of the far left, and a Statesman. Would that he was not the exception to the rule of deceitful scum the Marxist left is.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Regardless, ALL those that you named were elected under the Republican umbrella; indeed some are more conservative or more liberal than others. However, there are certain issues that they campaigned on that their constituents expect them to follow through with or would at least hope that they would follow through on.  So when those Republicans don't vote in accordance to what they campaigned on and instead their vote reflects the ideals of the opposite party, then they merely become Republican In Name Only or RINO's. 

Granted, there are divisions or factions within the GOP; RINO's, Establishment Republicans, Constitutional Conservatives, Tea Party Conservatives, etc., but again they ALL fall under the GOP umbrella.  When we go to the polls, that's the choice that we have; we either vote GOP or DEM. So .... IF those that we vote for aren't going to follow through and vote along with the majority of the GOP members and vote along with the DEMS more often then not, then the only thing they are truly doing is obstructing their own party.  McCain's vote on Bammycare was a prime example.

McCain voted against Obamacare in 2010.  2 other Republicans voted against the Skinny Repeal you reference.  You eliminate those 3 seats and the GOP goes from 52 Senate seats to 49. 9 Republicans against the Leadership Plan three day before the Skinny Repeal.   8 Republicans voted down a clean repeal the day before that.  I don't think the problem is McCain.

[Fantom]

McCain voted against Obamacare in 2010.  2 other Republicans voted against the Skinny Repeal you reference.  You eliminate those 3 seats and the GOP goes from 52 Senate seats to 49. 9 Republicans against the Leadership Plan three day before the Skinny Repeal.   8 Republicans voted down a clean repeal the day before that.  I don't think the problem is McCain.

McSlime voted against obamacare when his vote did not matter..... voted for obamacare  when it did.   

Can the bastard not die already?

[musiclady]

Ok. And, I'm not trying to challenge you here, but merely asking so that I understand.  You state that you are no longer a Republican.  So, when you go to the polls, you have primarily (other than vote 3rd party)  two choices; GOP or DEM. Do you then vote DEM or vote for whom you feel is the best candidate regardless of party?

I'm no longer a Republican either, and I wouldn't vote for a DEM if my life depended on it.

There are a lot of us out there post-Trump that are Conservatives without a party.

I'll vote for Republicans if they maintain conservative standards, third party if that is the only choice.

The Republican Party's complete sell out disgusts me.   They were on the way down before 2016, for sure, but in Trump they didn't maintain a single value that a Christian Conservative can support.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Ok. And, I'm not trying to challenge you here, but merely asking so that I understand.  You state that you are no longer a Republican.  So, when you go to the polls, you have primarily (other than vote 3rd party)  two choices; GOP or DEM. Do you then vote DEM or vote for whom you feel is the best candidate regardless of party?

I didn't vote last time.  Not sure what I'll do next Nov.  I'd like to vote for my Governor.  Maybe I'll just skip 2 Presidential elections.  We will see where the GOP is later.  It's possible a few more successes like taxcuts, and Gorsuch...maybe defunding PP, or a treaty with NK could bring me cautiously back.  Conversely more failures may paint them as Trump enablers permanently.  I don't see how I could vote for a democrat today, but I never had a reason not to vote before 2016.  This is uncharted territory for me. 

[corbe]

 

I'm no longer a Republican either, and I wouldn't vote for a DEM if my life depended on it.

There are a lot of us out there post-Trump that are Conservatives without a party.

I'll vote for Republicans if they maintain conservative standards, third party if that is the only choice.

The Republican Party's complete sell out disgusts me.   They were on the way down before 2016, for sure, but in Trump they didn't maintain a single value that a Christian Conservative can support.

 

[Fantom]

I didn't vote last time.  Not sure what I'll do next Nov.  I'd like to vote for my Governor.  Maybe I'll just skip 2 Presidential elections.  We will see where the GOP is later.  It's possible a few more successes like taxcuts, and Gorsuch...maybe defunding PP, or a treaty with NK could bring me cautiously back.  Conversely more failures may paint them as Trump enablers permanently.  I don't see how I could vote for a democrat today, but I never had a reason not to vote before 2016.  This is uncharted territory for me.

@Once-Ler

We've sparred a bit , cast our aspersions upon one another. But that sounds like an honest opinion Once. I do not agree with it, but I can respect it.

Work tomorrow, so I bid you a goodnight. Hope all is well with you and yours.

[LauraTXNM]

I didn't vote last time.  Not sure what I'll do next Nov.  I'd like to vote for my Governor.  Maybe I'll just skip 2 Presidential elections.  We will see where the GOP is later.  It's possible a few more successes like taxcuts, and Gorsuch...maybe defunding PP, or a treaty with NK could bring me cautiously back.  Conversely more failures may paint them as Trump enablers permanently.  I don't see how I could vote for a democrat today, but I never had a reason not to vote before 2016.  This is uncharted territory for me.

Me, too.  If I'm still in CA in 2020, I guess I'll have dubious "luxury" of my vote not counting in the general election.  I'll definitely vote in the primary, but there may not actually be a candidate I can support in November 2020.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Me, too.  If I'm still in CA in 2020, I guess I'll have dubious "luxury" of my vote not counting in the general election.  I'll definitely vote in the primary, but there may not actually be a candidate I can support in November 2020.

I can name a couple dozen Republicans I could vote for President.  Most of them would be called the GOP Establishment and I don't expect any of them to run.  If Flake ran against Trump in 2020 I might vote for Flake either 3rd party or GOP primary. 

[libertybele]

I didn't vote last time.  Not sure what I'll do next Nov.  I'd like to vote for my Governor.  Maybe I'll just skip 2 Presidential elections.  We will see where the GOP is later.  It's possible a few more successes like taxcuts, and Gorsuch...maybe defunding PP, or a treaty with NK could bring me cautiously back.  Conversely more failures may paint them as Trump enablers permanently.  I don't see how I could vote for a democrat today, but I never had a reason not to vote before 2016.  This is uncharted territory for me.

Well, I thank you and @corbe and @musiclady , for your honesty.  I haven't missed voting in an election  since I have been eligible to vote.  I had considered not voting last election, and I struggled with that decision for months. I have remained a registered Republican so that I can vote in the primaries, but I am not so sure that I will be voting in the mid terms. I am disgusted, disheartened, and disappointed in the Republican Party in general.  There are very few Congressmen that I feel are worth a darn and doing their jobs and now even they have me questioning their actions at times.