Defying GOP, Trump orders steel and aluminum tariffs

[dfwgator]

So populism surpasses economic reality.

I believe the end result is we'll wind up with trade deals that are more advantageous to the US.   A Tariff is just a tool in the arsenal to try to leverage a better deal. It certainly sends a message that the US isn't just going to sit back and take it anymore.

[Sanguine]

So populism surpasses economic reality.

That's how populism works. 

[truth_seeker]

So populism surpasses economic reality.

Here is an alternate way to consider "economic reality:"  We have been, are and will remain in "trade war."

But now we are finally taking the gloves off, instead of folding at the outset.

[Right_in_Virginia]

He is keeping a campaign commitment.

.@SecretaryRoss on @realDonaldTrump keeping his campaign promises: "Anybody who doubts the president's sense of conviction and his willingness to be very, very aggressive really misses the boat...this president keeps his promises." @TeamCavuto pic.twitter.com/D4tNcneMuw— Fox News (@FoxNews) March 8, 2018

[ABX]

Just throwing this out there, not that this old paper means anything to Conservatives any more:


U.S. Constitution Article I Section VIII:
1. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...

3. To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations...

[Right_in_Virginia]

Here is an alternate way to consider "economic reality:"  We have been, are and will remain in "trade war."

But now we are finally taking the gloves off, instead of folding at the outset.

 

[Concerned]

Here is an alternate way to consider "economic reality:"  We have been, are and will remain in "trade war."

But now we are finally taking the gloves off, instead of folding at the outset.

And what Trump (and some of his supporters) seem to fail to realize is that the others in the global marketplace will now take the gloves off in response to his tariffs.  They certainly won't just roll over and play dead (which is really what I think Trump thinks will happen).  Fortunately, I predict Trump will proclaim success sooner rather than later and will end the tariffs when their full negative impact on prices and US jobs becomes clear.

[Sanguine]

And what Trump (and some of his supporters) seem to fail to realize is that the others in the global marketplace will now take the gloves off in response to his tariffs.  They certainly won't just roll over and play dead (which is really what I think Trump thinks will happen).  Fortunately, I predict Trump will proclaim success sooner rather than later and will end the tariffs when their full negative impact on prices and US jobs becomes clear.

Just like GWB did.

[INVAR]

Just throwing this out there, not that this old paper means anything to Conservatives any more:


U.S. Constitution Article I Section VIII:
1. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...

3. To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations...

Nope.  That kind of 'Conservatism' is now irrelevant.

Besides, the GOP went along with the Democrats in Congress and surrendered those Constitutional responsibilities to the Executive Branch for Obama.

So Article One Section Eight is null and void in practicality.

Which is how Trump can now simply make economic policy and levy taxes upon his own authority.

Congress handed it to the Imperial Presidency.

And like trained seals, the Trumplicans applaud it.

[massadvj]

By exempting Canada and Mexico, Trump has basically made a political gesture that will have only a negligible effect on steel prices.  Canada and Mexico are our two biggest suppliers of steel, followed by Russia, and a distant fourth, China.

It appears that this is mostly to shore up political support in the Pennsylvania special election next week, plus in the industrial heartland for the 2018 midterms.  Look for the tariff to quietly disappear after that.

https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-us.pdf

[edpc]

By exempting Canada and Mexico, Trump has basically made a political gesture that will have only a negligible effect on steel prices.  Canada and Mexico are our two biggest suppliers of steel, followed by Russia, and a distant fourth, China.

It appears that this is mostly to shore up political support in the Pennsylvania special election next week, plus in the industrial heartland for the 2018 midterms.  Look for the tariff to quietly disappear after that.

Possibly, but that's in a scenario where other nations don't respond with their own tariffs on things that matter to us and it goes from there.  That's still a wait and see proposition.

[Right_in_Virginia]

By exempting Canada and Mexico, Trump has basically made a political gesture that will have only a negligible effect on steel prices.  Canada and Mexico are our two biggest suppliers of steel, followed by Russia, and a distant fourth, China.

It appears that this is mostly to shore up political support in the Pennsylvania special election next week, plus in the industrial heartland for the 2018 midterms.  Look for the tariff to quietly disappear after that. 

Except @massadvj we're in the middle of renegotiating NAFTA with Mexico and Canada.  This is now an especially strong bargaining chip --- the President has shown he is serious about tariffs and has reserved the right to add to the countries on the tariff list.

I believe beyond any political gains in Pennsylvania the President is deeply serious about leveling the playing field for American workers.

[Sanguine]

Except @massadvj ... This is now an especially strong bargaining chip --- the President has shown he is serious about tariffs and has reserved the right to add to the countries on the tariff list.

I believe beyond any political gains in Pennsylvania the President is deeply serious about leveling the playing field for American workers.

I actually agree with you on both of these points, RIV.

[XenaLee]

Here is an alternate way to consider "economic reality:"  We have been, are and will remain in "trade war."

But now we are finally taking the gloves off, instead of folding at the outset.

Most Americans aren't all that concerned with "taking the gloves off" right about now... since they have barely been allowed time to enjoy the thrill of Trump's tax reform and having a little more cash to spend..... before it starts to all go away under the burden of the tax and higher prices results of these new tariffs.  Effin swell.  The Trump giveth and the Trump taketh away. 

[DB]

Here is an alternate way to consider "economic reality:"  We have been, are and will remain in "trade war."

But now we are finally taking the gloves off, instead of folding at the outset.

You win a trade war by being more competitive/innovative than your competitors.

All other methods fail over time.

[corbe]

Tariffs won't start a trade war, there's 435 of them in place today to fight trade cheaters. People may not like how Pres Trump rolled these out, but I applaud him for trying.
— Richard L. Trumka (@RichardTrumka) March 8, 2018

[Sanguine]

Hmmmm, so Trumka approves?  That's not good.

[Hoodat]

Trump signed paperwork enacting tariffs of 25 percent on steel and 10 percent on aluminum during a hastily arranged event at the White House.

In other news, American steel producers have announced a 25% price increase.


Again, can anyone show me how a tax increase leads to economic growth?  Because I see no difference in what Trump says and in what Bernie Sanders says.

[INVAR]

A people who see their government as an instrument to 'level playing fields' and 'make things fair and equal' are a people who will use government against you the first opportunity they have.

[INVAR]

Again, can anyone show me how a tax increase leads to economic growth?  Because I see no difference in what Trump says and in what Bernie Sanders says.

No. There is no difference.

Trump himself applauded Sanders' economic ideas.

And now his pack of clapping seals applaud Trump implementing Sanders' ideas. 

So why was it so dire to keep Hillary out of the Office when Trump is implementing policies of avowed Socialists?

[corbe]

CRUZ: Donald is right about the problems of international trade. But his solutions don't work: he proposed a 45% tariff on foreign goods. The effect of a 45% tariff would be when you go to Walmart, the prices you pay go up 45%. A tariff is a tax on you.

Donald TRUMP: The 45% tariff is a threat. It will be a tax if they don't behave. China dumps everything that they have over here. We can't get into China. The 45% is a threat that if they don't behave, we will tax you.

CRUZ: It's not China that pays the tax. It's you, the working men and women. So ask yourself at home: How is this helping you? If your wages have been stagnant for 20 years; if you can't pay the bills, how does it help you to have a president come and say, "I'm going to put a 45% tax on diapers, on automobiles, on clothing." That hurts you. It's why we've got to get beyond rhetoric of "China bad," and actually get to "how do you solve the problem?" Because this solution would hurt jobs and hurt hard-working taxpayers in America.

Source: 2016 GOP primary debate in Miami , Mar 10, 2016

[corbe]

Mr. Trump, Here's Why Trade Deficits Are Good

Simon Constable   ,      Contributor 
Feb 27, 2017 @ 09:14 AM   

President Trump seems to have the wrong end of the stick when it comes to trade deficits.

He seems to think big trade deficits mean the U.S. is losing in the game of international trade. But nothing could be further from the truth. They are good: The bigger the better, in fact.

Here's what you need to know:

In 2016 the U.S. bought $347 billion more goods from China than it sold that country, according to U.S. Government data.

Sales competition?

It's easy to see why most people view that massive sum as a failure. On the face of it, a trade deficit between two countries means that one country exported way more goods than the other. For anyone who thrives on competition and sales, this must sound like losing. For the highly competitive Mr. Trump, that almost certainly appears just so, likely with the accompanying mental headline: "Chinese Win In Export Battle -- Sold More to the U.S. than Vice Versa."

<..snip..>

https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonconstable/2017/02/27/mr-trump-heres-why-trade-deficits-are-good/#1e2e75812b96

[Hoodat]

By exempting Canada and Mexico, Trump has basically made a political gesture that will have only a negligible effect on steel prices.  Canada and Mexico are our two biggest suppliers of steel, followed by Russia, and a distant fourth, China.

China isn't in the top ten.