Author Topic: Trump Still Can’t Find Common Ground Between Ethanol And Oil  (Read 381 times)

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Offline endicom

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Hot Air
Jazz Shaw
Feb. 28, 2018

Last week we looked at the ongoing efforts of Ted Cruz and Pat Toomey to enlist President Trump in their battle to gain relief from the Renewable Fuel Standard for some oil refineries. This is a tricky situation because King Corn and the ethanol lobby are still hugely powerful in American politics and Iowa is the central battleground in that fight. Complicating things further is the fact that Trump, in one of his more disappointing moments on the campaign trail, made promises to Iowa about supporting the RFS.

These new efforts led to a meeting at the White House between the aforementioned senators, the President, and the two Iowa ethanol reps, Senators Chuck Grassley and Joni Ernst. Despite high hopes for some sort of compromise, the Iowa delegation apparently can’t find anything they can say yes to and the talks fell apart.

More... https://hotair.com/archives/2018/02/28/trump-still-cant-find-common-ground-ethanol-oil/

Offline endicom

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Re: Trump Still Can’t Find Common Ground Between Ethanol And Oil
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2018, 02:34:34 pm »

Cruz expressed confidence but that may be to just keep the ball rolling.


Offline Taxcontrol

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Re: Trump Still Can’t Find Common Ground Between Ethanol And Oil
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2018, 03:18:36 pm »
 ****slapping

Ethanol is a bad fuel.  Butanol is a much better fuel. 
- It does not take away from the food supply,
- it has a better BTU content,
- it is a feeder chemical to a large number of products
- it can be transported via pipelines and traditional gasoline distribution infrastructure
- it is hydrophobic (does not soak up water)
- It can be produced from algae
- it can be produced as an alternate "crop" by farmers

If the intent is to develop a long term alternative to oil/gas industries, then we should be looking at how to increase the butanol production via small pilot programs out of the Dept of Agriculture.  Perhaps start by sponsoring a contest where farmers submit their designs for algae based butanol production with emphasis being placed on designs that a small farm can used to provide their own fuel.  Winners would be rewarded with some monetary prize.  Second round could be a college challenge where the most butanol is produced for a fixed starting amount.  Once the designs are submitted and the contest is over, release a CD/DVD with the designs to the public.

Once a significant farm production starts in an area, local agri-coops can serve as collection points for excess butanol that can be sold into the broader market. 

In 2016, there were 143 Billion gallons of finished gasoline produced in the US. With 2.2 million farms out there, That would require the production of 65,000 gallons per farm to replace the entire market.  That works out to about 5,500 gallons per month and is in my opinion, beyond the capability of a small farm.  At least initially. 

So a 1% replacement would only be 650 gallons per farm annually or 55 gallons per month.  I believe that would be doable. Even if the farmer only used the fuel produced to offset the fuel consumed, it would work to decrease demand. One would start to see a retail price impact at about 5% production.

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Re: Trump Still Can’t Find Common Ground Between Ethanol And Oil
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2018, 03:28:34 pm »
****slapping

Ethanol is a bad fuel.  Butanol is a much better fuel. 
- It does not take away from the food supply,
- it has a better BTU content,
- it is a feeder chemical to a large number of products
- it can be transported via pipelines and traditional gasoline distribution infrastructure
- it is hydrophobic (does not soak up water)
- It can be produced from algae
- it can be produced as an alternate "crop" by farmers

If the intent is to develop a long term alternative to oil/gas industries, then we should be looking at how to increase the butanol production via small pilot programs out of the Dept of Agriculture.  Perhaps start by sponsoring a contest where farmers submit their designs for algae based butanol production with emphasis being placed on designs that a small farm can used to provide their own fuel.  Winners would be rewarded with some monetary prize.  Second round could be a college challenge where the most butanol is produced for a fixed starting amount.  Once the designs are submitted and the contest is over, release a CD/DVD with the designs to the public.

Once a significant farm production starts in an area, local agri-coops can serve as collection points for excess butanol that can be sold into the broader market. 

In 2016, there were 143 Billion gallons of finished gasoline produced in the US. With 2.2 million farms out there, That would require the production of 65,000 gallons per farm to replace the entire market.  That works out to about 5,500 gallons per month and is in my opinion, beyond the capability of a small farm.  At least initially. 

So a 1% replacement would only be 650 gallons per farm annually or 55 gallons per month.  I believe that would be doable. Even if the farmer only used the fuel produced to offset the fuel consumed, it would work to decrease demand. One would start to see a retail price impact at about 5% production.

Excellent post!  I would also add that it takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn if all inputs are considered. Is now, and always has been, a fools game!
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Offline endicom

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Re: Trump Still Can’t Find Common Ground Between Ethanol And Oil
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2018, 03:30:21 pm »
So a 1% replacement would only be 650 gallons per farm annually or 55 gallons per month.  I believe that would be doable. Even if the farmer only used the fuel produced to offset the fuel consumed, it would work to decrease demand. One would start to see a retail price impact at about 5% production.

My one quibble is your apparent national outlook. If corn ethanol works for just some in the Midwest and does nothing for me then I'm fine with that. If kudzu ethanol would work for just some in the Southeast and did nothing for me then I'd be fine with that.

The cumulative effect of many niche fuels would eventually benefit me, too.


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Re: Trump Still Can’t Find Common Ground Between Ethanol And Oil
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2018, 04:36:36 pm »
    From OP:
Quote
This is a tricky situation because King Corn and the ethanol lobby are still hugely powerful in American politics and Iowa is the central battleground in that fight.

   Sen. Cruz looked those farmers in the eye and told them what he really thought of the RFS and Ethanol and yet he won Iowa, sending shock waves throughout the Trump Campaign, so it has been done.
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