A Gun Control Measure Conservatives Should Consider

[thackney]

Definitely true.  And I don't know any answer for that one.  And it won't be long before people will also be able to produce proteins in 3D printers, creating poisons or diseases they can then unleash.  I don't know what we do about that either.  So I guess the best thing we can do is look at the behavior we can SEE, the kid who makes threats or hurts animals.

A 3D printer does change anything at a chemical level.  It takes a polymer in and spits the same one out in precise location.  It doesn't change molecular structure, just physical shape.

[sneakypete]

I still don't think that this works as deterrence for people who are mentally ill.

@LauraTXNM

Of course it doesn't. They are mentally ill.

The solution to this problem is to bring back prisons for the violent mentally ill. IF they are a Kennedy or someone similar and are judged to be mentally ill because they drowned a campaign aide in car,for example,don't play the old "wink and nod game". Convict them of murder/manslaughter,whatever felony applies,and then give them the serious sentence the crime deserves. If they are treated by a family doctor that claims they are now under control once the trial ends and don't need to be put in the loony bin,fine. Lock their asses up in prison with the rest of the felons,and have them serve out there time there..

Insanity is a REASON,NOT an excuse.

[LauraTXNM]

No, of course there is no way to weed them out, unless you care to try to lock down private sales (which is wholly impossible) - And that does *NOTHING* to the street level illegal market. If someone wants to buy a gun, they most definitely can, and that cannot be legislated away.

Whether your assertion that the guns were acquired legally is true or not, it does not mean that these people will continue to be law abiding - If that were indeed the fact, they would be ill prepared to carry a weapon into an illegal zone and illegally murder multiple people. The point is sheer fallacy.

You all have done a lot to help me understand why banning "assault weapons" or other types of weapons is ineffective.  But I don't understand the problem with background checks -- that seems pretty "common sense".

And here's a question you just raised: why shouldn't private sales be treated in the same way as "official" firearms dealer purchases?  Would it be a good thing to sell a gun on Craigslist to some stranger with no background check?  I don't understand how that works.

[sneakypete]

Deterrence doesn't work if you're nuts.

@LauraTXNM

Mental Institutions for the Criminally Insane did,before the communists in this country figured out they could use the ACLU to destroy the country by forcing us to release tens of thousands of mentally instable people to prey on the public while living on the streets.

[LauraTXNM]

A 3D printer does change anything at a chemical level.  It takes a polymer in and spits the same one out in precise location.  It doesn't change molecular structure, just physical shape.

True; sorry, I was being a bit silly ;).  But they are beginning to construct proteins and tissues in labs, and high school kids are already messing around with this technology.  I want my Star Trek replicator now, dammit ;).

[thackney]

You all have done a lot to help me understand why banning "assault weapons" or other types of weapons is ineffective.  But I don't understand the problem with background checks -- that seems pretty "common sense".

And here's a question you just raised: why shouldn't private sales be treated in the same way as "official" firearms dealer purchases?  Would it be a good thing to sell a gun on Craigslist to some stranger with no background check?  I don't understand how that works.

So a grandfather would not be able to give his granddaughter her first hunting rifle without first going through a federal background check for her?  And would he be required to have a federal license as well?

[LauraTXNM]

@LauraTXNM

Mental Institutions for the Criminally Insane did,before the communists in this country figured out they could use the ACLU to destroy the country by forcing us to release tens of thousands of mentally instable people to prey on the public while living on the streets.

Right, but what do you do with the insane before they're CRIMINALS?  That's the real issue.

[LauraTXNM]

So a grandfather would not be able to give his granddaughter her first hunting rifle without first going through a federal background check for her?  And would he be required to have a federal license as well?

That's what I'm asking you.  Does it make sense to "share" weapons within a family but not sell to strangers?  Do you think there is a problem with privately selling to strangers?  What do you think?  You all have the experience and knowledge to make these distinctions.

[INVAR]

Simply saying we can't let the government control this, is burying our heads in the sand.

Then where does it stop?

Answer: NEVER.  It is the very nature of government to expand until it is all-encompassing and devours each and every single liberty and breath of life that it does not control, until you are nothing but a slave and subject to a Beast that will tell you what you can eat, what you can own and how you must live and think.

But that is apparently what a bulk of the American people actually want.  Because they erroneously think it will make them safe.

So they shall have it.

Because the idea of being self-governed by a set of biblical principles and morals has been roundly rejected by nearly the whole of society.  So let us empower government to do it instead.

[LauraTXNM]

Then where does it stop?

Answer: NEVER.  It is the very nature of government to expand until it is all-encompassing and devours each and every single liberty and breath of life that it does not control, until you are nothing but a slave and subject to a Beast that will tell you what you can eat, what you can own and how you must live and think.

But that is apparently what a bulk of the American people actually want.  Because they erroneously think it will make them safe.

So they shall have it.

Because the idea of being self-governed by a set of biblical principles and morals has been roundly rejected by nearly the whole of society.  So let us empower government to do it instead.

What do you think is the solution to making people with TB take their meds?

[thackney]

That's what I'm asking you.  Does it make sense to "share" weapons within a family but not sell to strangers?  Do you think there is a problem with privately selling to strangers?  What do you think?  You all have the experience and knowledge to make these distinctions.

I think a gun is a tool and we should not ban or regulate the private selling of those items.

[roamer_1]

So I guess the best thing we can do is look at the behavior we can SEE, the kid who makes threats or hurts animals.

I am a very violent sort, perfectly capable of threats... And by today's standard, I could be considered hurtful toward animals (hunter, trapper, cowboy).

Shall you decide to take guns away from me?

Before you decide, know that I'm the violent bastard that intervenes for the little guy, and who enforces fair play. I'm the crude Neanderthal that stops other men from beating their wives. I'm the guy that runs toward a disaster, not away.

[sneakypete]

Right, but what do you do with the insane before they're CRIMINALS?  That's the real issue.

@LauraTXNM

No,it's not. You are complicating things. There are regular mental institutions for the merely confused. The patients in them are not sentenced to serve time and have to release date. They are PATIENTS,not prisoners. When/if they recover to the point where they can cope,you let them out. The Criminally insane are a different thing. They are serving time for the crimes they committed,NOT serving time for being insane.

Yeah,it is not a perfect situation. We live in an imperfect world,and there are very few situations where "one size fits all". That's why we have judges,juries,and medical review boards.

[sneakypete]

What do you think is the solution to making people with TB take their meds?

@LauraTXNM

Uhhh,have someone watch them take the meds?

Or even simpler,put them in TB wards where it is easy to supervise and monitor them.

[LauraTXNM]

@LauraTXNM

No,it's not. You are complicating things. There are regular mental institutions for the merely confused. The patients in them are not sentenced to serve time and have to release date. They are PATIENTS,not prisoners. When/if they recover to the point where they can cope,you let them out. The Criminally insane are a different thing. They are serving time for the crimes they committed,NOT serving time for being insane.

Yeah,it is not a perfect situation. We live in an imperfect world,and there are very few situations where "one size fits all". That's why we have judges,juries,and medical review boards.

Part of the problem: there really AREN'T many institutions for kids like the FL shooter.  Certainly not enough.  And there is enough stigma attached to them, in addition to theidea that they're hellholes, that people are hesitant to send their kids there.  It is not that different from the "Don't call a cop; it'll make things worse" notion -- "don't turn your kid over to the system."

[roamer_1]

You all have done a lot to help me understand why banning "assault weapons" or other types of weapons is ineffective.  But I don't understand the problem with background checks -- that seems pretty "common sense".

It does nothing but register the law abiding, and history attests those lists are used to confiscate arms eventually. If anyone can go buy a gun off the back of a truck, wholly circumventing the system, then the system has little value in actually fighting crime. Thus it's intention is control, and that control is for the confiscation of weapons from the 'good guys'. Inevitably true, and it takes little to see though the facade of crime control.

And here's a question you just raised: why shouldn't private sales be treated in the same way as "official" firearms dealer purchases?  Would it be a good thing to sell a gun on Craigslist to some stranger with no background check?  I don't understand how that works.

You might as well try to title baseball bats or steak knives.
Why shouldn't I be able to sell my property to whomever I choose, and how can your silly laws prevent it? No one will suffer the paperwork. No one will jump through those hoops. They'll just swell the ranks of street level sales, and  the whole works will just go underground. Predictably.

[sneakypete]

 

And by today's standard, I could be considered hurtful toward animals (hunter, trapper, cowboy).

 Your answer to the question "HOW and WHY do you hurt them? Do you hurt them as a part of the normal process of harvesting them while trying to be as humane as possible,or do you hurt them because it gives you a woody and the giggles to hear them scream and squeal? BIG difference.

[roamer_1]

Right, but what do you do with the insane before they're CRIMINALS?  That's the real issue.

Back to the 'thought police'.

[Axeslinger]

Part of the problem: there really AREN'T many institutions for kids like the FL shooter.  Certainly not enough.  And there is enough stigma attached to them, in addition to them being hellholes, that people are hesitant to send their kids there.  It is not that different from the "Don't call a cop; it'll make things worse" notion -- "don't turn your kid over to the system."

@LauraTXNM

It’s worse than that.   I work with a guy whose 15yo daughter has run away multiple times, she's broken the law, tried to kill herself...when she does get sent to institutional treatment (at least 4 Times so far), she's assaulted other patients and the staff, she's pulled a knife on my coworker and told him she’s going to kill him in his sleep...she's been officially diagnosed as having some mental illness (don't recall which).   


And there's NOTHING he can do and NOWHERE to put her.   When she has an episode, she gets committed for a few days maybe even for a few weeks at most, but then they can't keep her and the whole cycle starts again. 

He's admitted as much that this will end up with her dead or in jail...the only question is if she takes anyone else with her

[INVAR]

What do you think is the solution to making people with TB take their meds?

I guess in today's definition of land of the free, is to empower government to put a gun to their head to force compliance.

Because we are no longer a self-governing people.

We are a people screaming for a monarchy to keep us safe and give us what we want.

[roamer_1]

That's what I'm asking you.  Does it make sense to "share" weapons within a family but not sell to strangers? 

You seem blissfully unaware of mountain country family trees.

Do you think there is a problem with privately selling to strangers?  What do you think?  You all have the experience and knowledge to make these distinctions.

No. No more so than selling anything else to strangers. Why would I worry that the guy who is buying my chainsaw might possibly be heading for a chainsaw massacre? You obviously do not understand the ubiquity of guns in the west, even having been raised in it.

And you have still prevented nothing, because all your efforts do nothing to effect the criminal element at all. He will just steal what he can't buy.

[thackney]

You all have done a lot to help me understand why banning "assault weapons" or other types of weapons is ineffective. 

Keep in mind, the second amendment isn't about hunting.

[sneakypete]

Part of the problem: there really AREN'T many institutions for kids like the FL shooter.  Certainly not enough.

Well,there WERE before the left filed lawsuits and had them closed down in order to create chaos.

If we can build and staff prisons with babysitters for the criminals,there is no reason we can't build asylums for the criminally insane instead of sending them to regular prisons.

And there is enough stigma attached to them, in addition to them being hellholes, that people are hesitant to send their kids there.

Tough titty. Into each life,a little rain must fall. If your psycho kid is running through MY neighborhood setting fire to cats,shooting dogs,and molesting children,you had better hope the cops get him before I do.

That's one historic major difference between city people and country people. You NEVER hear of anybody from a rural area going nuts and killing 17 of his classmates. The reason is those kids can be spotted early because they torture and kill family pets,set fires,etc,etc,etc.  None of those goobers seems to make it to adulthood. They always seemed to have tragic farming,hunting,logging,or working accidents as early teens. You can't hide crazy from rural people in a rural area,and people in rural areas tend to be a mite direct in their methods when it comes to making themselves and their neighbors safe.

People that think little Miss or Mister Precious is just going through a phase they are going to grow out of tend to send their kids to live with relatives in a  city because they know the bigger the city,the easier it is to hide crazy.

 

[roamer_1]

What do you think is the solution to making people with TB take their meds?

That answer is obvious. There is no solution.

[roamer_1]

Your answer to the question "HOW and WHY do you hurt them? Do you hurt them as a part of the normal process of harvesting them while trying to be as humane as possible,or do you hurt them because it gives you a woody and the giggles to hear them scream and squeal? BIG difference.

Yes, I see that difference. But the liberal bunny-huggers trying to take control do not.