Florida school shooting: 19-year-old accused of killing 17 is a 'broken child,' lawyer says

[LauraTXNM]

Other 19 year-old "Children" with guns.....

What a great and terrifying photo.  All 10 of my grandmother's brothers were there, or in situations like it.  I would hope this man would have been kicked out of the military because he is crazy.

[edpc]

Other 19 year-old "Children" with guns.....

There was a song in 1985 that made the top 40 about the age of US servicemen in Vietnam.



In 1965 Vietnam seemed like just another foreign war but it wasn't
It was different in many ways, as so were those that did the fighting
In World War II the average age of the combat soldier was 26
In Vietnam he was 19


! No longer available

Paul Hardcastle - Nineteen

[Sanguine]

No, he's just crazy.

I would go for evil.

[LauraTXNM]

There was a song in 1985 that made the top 40 about the age of US servicemen in Vietnam.



In 1965 Vietnam seemed like just another foreign war but it wasn't
It was different in many ways, as so were those that did the fighting
In World War II the average age of the combat soldier was 26
In Vietnam he was 19

Wow, that's sobering.


! No longer available

Paul Hardcastle - Nineteen

[skeeter]

There was a song in 1985 that made the top 40 about the age of US servicemen in Vietnam.



In 1965 Vietnam seemed like just another foreign war but it wasn't
It was different in many ways, as so were those that did the fighting
In World War II the average age of the combat soldier was 26
In Vietnam he was 19


! No longer available

Paul Hardcastle - Nineteen

Remember the song, but the 19 figure is a myth. 22 -23 was the average age in Vietnam, using ages of KIAs as a representation of soldiers in general.

I used to have a chicano professor who used to claim that minorities and poor were disproportionally killed in Vietnam, as well. That was a myth too.

[edpc]

Remember the song, but the 19 figure is a myth. 22 -23 was the average age in Vietnam, using ages of KIAs as a representation of soldiers in general.

I used to have a chicano professor who used to claim that minorities and poor were disproportionally killed in Vietnam, as well. That was a myth too.

The career people would obviously drive the age way up.  Somewhere along the way, I'm sure someone came in with a disclaimer about the average age of draftees.

[LauraTXNM]

The career people would obviously drive the age way up.  Somewhere along the way, I'm sure someone came in with a disclaimer about the average age of draftees.

I thought the main thing, was that poorer people were disproportionately affected.

[edpc]

I thought the main thing, was that poorer people were disproportionately affected.

Mostly because of the college deferment, but there were other types as well.

[LauraTXNM]

Mostly because of the college deferment, but there were other types as well.

Yes, that's what I had read.

[edpc]

Yes, that's what I had read.

The ridiculous thing was all the complaints about segregated units in WWII not seeing action.  Once the services were integrated, the complaint was minorities were always put in danger.  Sometimes, you can't win.

[LauraTXNM]

The ridiculous thing was all the complaints about segregated units in WWII not seeing action.  Once the services were integrated, the complaint was minorities were always put in danger.  Sometimes, you can't win.

What?!  I hadn't read that?  Black infantry were kept out of the action?!  Do you know, were Mexican-American soldiers segregated too?  I'm embarrassed I don't know this; I'm from El Paso.

[edpc]

What?!  I hadn't read that?  Black infantry were kept out of the action?!  Do you know, were Mexican-American soldiers segregated too?  I'm embarrassed I don't know this; I'm from El Paso.

Not entirely.  You had the Tuskeegee Airmen and the 92nd Infantry.  However, most black units were not assigned to direct combat duties in WWII.

[Frank Cannon]

I hope I never need a public defender.  But I am glad that our system provides them for those who need them, guilty or not.  And I'd bet this woman works for not much money -- nobody becomes a public defender to get rich.

Give me a break. If I ever have to rely in a public defender to get me out of a jam I'm just pleading guilty to get the sentence started early. This woman isn't doing this for any altruistic reasons. She is doing it because she is a shitty lawyer. Walk into a courtroom sometime and watch these circus freaks perform. They are disorganized, incompetent and just plain stupid.

No one goes to law school to become a public defender. They end up there as a last resort before they go into selling real estate.

[edpc]

When I was 19, I got lucky my PD was a private attorney who was friends with the judge and got convinced by him to do pro bono work for the court now and then.

[skeeter]

I thought the main thing, was that poorer people were disproportionately affected.

Myth: Common belief is that the war was fought largely by the poor and uneducated.
Fact: Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas had a slightly elevated risk of dying because they were more likely to be pilots or infantry officers. Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better.

https://www.uswings.com/about-us-wings/vietnam-war-facts/

[jmyrlefuller]

It can be an assault on our sensitivities but the same Constitution that ensures our right to keep and bear arms allows for due process and legal representation for this hideous perpetrator.

I do feel a sense of empathy for her; after all, no sane attorney would willingly take on this sort of case. About the only other position I can think of that requires the employee to sacrifice so much of their dignity and credibility is the White House Press Secretary—and that's only because that position has a wider audience.

[sneakypete]

Cruz looks like the WV twins you find in a web search of 'inbred.'

@edpc

"Inbred" was also my first thought after seeing that photo.

[sneakypete]

Yes, that's what I had read.

@Laura

Yup. Some had Arkansas Senators looking out for them,others had Billionaire daddies in real estate looking out for them.

[sneakypete]

What?!  I hadn't read that?  Black infantry were kept out of the action?!

@LauraTXNM

Nope there WERE no black infantry. They were all in support units doing stuff like loading and unloading ships and driving trucks. Yet,despite this,Obomber managed to get a MoH for a couple of them,mostly based on them being black and everybody afraid to say "no" to the president.

The only exception to this that i know of in the army was in the US Army Air Force (before the USAF becoming a second branch) was a fighter squadron named the "Tuskegee Airmen"

You hear a lot of bullbush about them being "the greatest fighter pilots of WW-2 and the only group that never had a bomber shot down they were escorting!",but it's all lies. They never entered into combat until late in the war (1944),and by then most of the experienced German fighter pilots had already been shot down,and there is no such thing as  a bombing raid in Europe with no bombers being shot down.

The truth takes NOTHING away from the courage of the individual black pilots,but most of the crap you read is PC lies.

Do you know, were Mexican-American soldiers segregated too?  I'm embarrassed I don't know this; I'm from El Paso.

Absolutely NOT! Neither were American Indians or Asians. ALL fought in combat units,and most volunteered. In FACT,the US Army unit with the most valor decorations and Purple Heart medals for wounds in WW-2 was the 442 Regimental Combat Team,composed entirely of Japanese-American soldiers.

[LauraTXNM]

@LauraTXNM

Nope there WERE no black infantry. They were all in support units doing stuff like loading and unloading ships and driving trucks. Yet,despite this,Obomber managed to get a MoH for a couple of them,mostly based on them being black and everybody afraid to say "no" to the president.

The only exception to this that i know of in the army was in the US Army Air Force (before the USAF becoming a second branch) was a fighter squadron named the "Tuskegee Airmen"

You hear a lot of bullbush about them being "the greatest fighter pilots of WW-2 and the only group that never had a bomber shot down they were escorting!",but it's all lies. They never entered into combat until late in the war (1944),and by then most of the experienced German fighter pilots had already been shot down,and there is no such thing as  a bombing raid in Europe with no bombers being shot down.

The truth takes NOTHING away from the courage of the individual black pilots,but most of the crap you read is PC lies.


Absolutely NOT! Neither were American Indians or Asians. ALL fought in combat units,and most volunteered. In FACT,the US Army unit with the most valor decorations and Purple Heart medals for wounds in WW-2 was the 442 Regimental Combat Team,composed entirely of Japanese-American soldiers.

Did Japanese-Americans also get to serve in units with white soldiers, out of curiosity?

[sneakypete]

Did Japanese-Americans also get to serve in units with white soldiers, out of curiosity?

@LauraTXNM

Yes,and no. That one is a little complicated. Mostly because no Japanese infantryman or medic would be safe in any Army or USMC unit sent to fight the Japanese in the East. The whole "They all look alike to me,and they are sneaky little bastids that even play dead so they can shoot you in the back when you walk past them" thing. Which is why the 442nd Regimental Combat Team was formed. They were going to fight in Europe from Day One of the planning after someone figured out "We have all these Japanese-Americans enlisting,so what can we do with them?"

Where it gets complicated is that the US Military needed Japanese interpreters who fully understood the culture and language,and who could even read it. Who better than the children of Japanese immigrants who grew up reading,writing,and speaking both Japanese and English? A unknown to me number of Japanese-American enlistees whose personality tests,educational backgrounds,and personal histories and interests "rang the right bells" were asked if they would be willing to be assigned to intelligence units going to fight in the Orient. This is what makes it a little tricky. Military Intelligence is NOT considered to be a combat assignment. In most cases it isn't,but this was mostly not true of the ones that ended up being assigned to US Army and USMC infantry units. No,they were NOT members of any infantry squads or platoons,but to do their jobs many of them had to be ATTACHED to infantry units for a number of reasons. The most obvious being the sooner the brass gets notice of a planned Japanese attack,the better they can prepare for it,and there is no "fresher" intelligence than that gathered from a enemy headquarters that has just been overran and still has smoke rising from it. Someone on the scene right then that KNOWS the language and the culture can be invaluable.

They also needed to be close to the front lines so they could shout to the Japanese that were dug into the caves,etc,to surrender and tell them they would be treated well and not tortured. This saved both US and Japanese lives. Plus they could gather intel from reading the diaries and any notes in the pockets or equipment of any dead Japanese in a position that was just overran.

Technically speaking they were NOT combat troops because they were never in the front line during an assault,and they were not a part of any infantry company. The accompanied the infantry thought,and followed along right behind them,so they were still in considerable danger.

[Mod1]

We're getting way off-topic. Perhaps a discussion of military history could be started in the Military category, as there seems to be quite a bit of interest in it. This thread, however, is about the shooting in Florida.

[LauraTXNM]

@LauraTXNM

Yes,and no. That one is a little complicated. Mostly because no Japanese infantryman or medic would be safe in any Army or USMC unit sent to fight the Japanese in the East. The whole "They all look alike to me,and they are sneaky little bastids that even play dead so they can shoot you in the back when you walk past them" thing. Which is why the 442nd Regimental Combat Team was formed. They were going to fight in Europe from Day One of the planning after someone figured out "We have all these Japanese-Americans enlisting,so what can we do with them?"

Where it gets complicated is that the US Military needed Japanese interpreters who fully understood the culture and language,and who could even read it. Who better than the children of Japanese immigrants who grew up reading,writing,and speaking both Japanese and English? A unknown to me number of Japanese-American enlistees whose personality tests,educational backgrounds,and personal histories and interests "rang the right bells" were asked if they would be willing to be assigned to intelligence units going to fight in the Orient. This is what makes it a little tricky. Military Intelligence is NOT considered to be a combat assignment. In most cases it isn't,but this was mostly not true of the ones that ended up being assigned to US Army and USMC infantry units. No,they were NOT members of any infantry squads or platoons,but to do their jobs many of them had to be ATTACHED to infantry units for a number of reasons. The most obvious being the sooner the brass gets notice of a planned Japanese attack,the better they can prepare for it,and there is no "fresher" intelligence than that gathered from a enemy headquarters that has just been overran and still has smoke rising from it. Someone on the scene right then that KNOWS the language and the culture can be invaluable.

They also needed to be close to the front lines so they could shout to the Japanese that were dug into the caves,etc,to surrender and tell them they would be treated well and not tortured. This saved both US and Japanese lives. Plus they could gather intel from reading the diaries and any notes in the pockets or equipment of any dead Japanese in a position that was just overran.

Technically speaking they were NOT combat troops because they were never in the front line during an assault,and they were not a part of any infantry company. The accompanied the infantry thought,and followed along right behind them,so they were still in considerable danger.

Thank you for all the information!  And Mod, I'm sorry for derailing the thread.  Back to our regularly scheduled programming!