BREAKING>> Active Shooter Florida High School... Developing... Multiple victims...

[Bigun]

Exactly. Rather than dealing with difficult behavior problems it’s much easier to reach for the prescription pad and voilà, problem solved.

Yep!  Easier than actually doing your job!

[driftdiver]

Exactly. Rather than dealing with difficult behavior problems it’s much easier to reach for the prescription pad and voilà, problem solved.

In most cases the difficult behavior is normal.  At least until the drugging starts and the brain chemistry changes.

[Bigun]

In most cases the difficult behavior is normal.  At least until the drugging starts and the brain chemistry changes.

I thank God every day that they never came up with Ritlyn until I was grown!

[truth_seeker]

Thanks, Sanguine!  And with regard to the PTSD, I think about our recent vets and all the issues around denying them weapons.

1. Psychiatry & psychology were using electricity on brains, not very long ago.
2. People with some experience with the "professionals,", often conclude those people are more sick, than the patients.
3. These people have a big vested interest, in expanding "mental illness," in our society, for their monetary benefit. "Let's go ahead and schedule your appointments, for the next 3 months now."

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@To-Whose-Benefit?
Not sure I understand but I think you're pointing to the drugs.   

I think the drugs are a big factor.  That and a broken society where troubled people don't get help but are allowed to exist on the fringes where they are a threat to other peoples safety.

Big part of it. But my main point is the VT shooter and all those people he killed would Probably still be alive today if not for the system backing him into the Mental Health corner.

Would he still be Anti social and a Potential (un actualized) threat to others?

That IS one possibility, the other being, that given time to figure it out for himself Without being dehumanized with the label and poisoned with the drugs he could have turned his outward misconceptions about society around On His Own.

The diagnosis and drugs tripped his internal 'Thou Shalt Not Do Murder' circuit breakers by chemically upsetting his perceptual and emotional mechanisms. They shorted out his internal prohibitions against acting out.

[driftdiver]

Big part of it. But my main point is the VT shooter and all those people he killed would Probably still be alive today if not for the system backing him into the Mental Health corner.

Would he still be Anti social and a Potential (un actualized) threat to others?

That IS one possibility, the other being, that given time to figure it out for himself Without being dehumanized with the label and poisoned with the drugs he could have turned his outward misconceptions about society around On His Own.

The diagnosis and drugs tripped his internal 'Thou Shalt Not Do Murder' circuit breakers by chemically upsetting his perceptual and emotional mechanisms. They shorted out his internal prohibitions against acting out.

The entire mental health system is broken IMO.   They dispense powerful drugs like candy.   

[truth_seeker]

Fox News reporting 'the FBI did NOT FOLLOW PROTOCAL, Miami office NOT NOTIFIED'

Blood of 17 on Comey's FBI; too busy framing Trump to protect Americans from known serious threat of harm.

[aligncare]

Fox News reporting 'the FBI did NOT FOLLOW PROTOCAL, Miami office NOT NOTIFIED'

Blood of 17 on Comey's FBI; too busy framing Trump to protect Americans from known serious threat of harm.

 


The FBI certainly has gotten some black eyes lately – all of them self inflicted.

[edpc]

The FBI certainly has gotten some black eyes lately – all of them self inflicted.

Porter said that was an accident.

[mountaineer]

Police report   on the Cruz shooting.

[Smokin Joe]

@Sanguine

Quite a bit to digest here, no short answer, but yes it's the drugs causing the violence: tripping the patient's circuit breakers:

http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2013/06/akathisia-suicide-homicide-from.html

http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2013/01/neurolepticsantipsychotis-causing.html

I think the thing that is being missed here is that these drugs are not just being used for psychological medications: https://www.mayoclinic.org/pain-medications/ART-20045647?pg=2

They are being used for chronic pain as well, and in some places being used as pain killers.

The symptoms generated by someone not taking them after having been on them (unsupervised, the patient feels better so they quit) can be as bad as the 'side effects' from taking them.

The bottom line is that they are involved in virtually every mass shooting not a direct product of Islam.

Please note that these drugs do not have these effects on everyone, but a relatively small group can create a lot of mayhem.

[Sanguine]

Before we place the blame squarely on mental heath professionals and meds:

Cruz was getting treatment at a mental health clinic for a while but hadn't been there for more than a year, Broward County Mayor Beam Furr told CNN.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5398727/Family-took-Nikolas-Cruz-horrified.html?mrn_rm=als1

[Smokin Joe]

Before we place the blame squarely on mental heath professionals and meds:

Acouple fo quick (admittedly rhetorical) questions: Was Cruz taking the types of meds which commonly have undesirable effects when they are simply stopped? Had his prescriptions been consistently filled, or intermittently, or not at all?

Did these health professionals  discharge him as 'cured' (no longer requiring treatment) or had he simply quit on his own (often a sign of problems in itself)? If the latter, why no follow-up, or what attempt at follow-up was done?

[anubias]

Before we place the blame squarely on mental heath professionals and meds:

Thanks @Sanguine for being the voice of reason here. 

[Sanguine]

Acouple fo quick (admittedly rhetorical) questions: Was Cruz taking the types of meds which commonly have undesirable effects when they are simply stopped? Had his prescriptions been consistently filled, or intermittently, or not at all?

Did these health professionals  discharge him as 'cured' (no longer requiring treatment) or had he simply quit on his own (often a sign of problems in itself)? If the latter, why no follow-up, or what attempt at follow-up was done?

All good questions. I hope we learn the answers.

And, thanks, @anubias.  Though some would call me contrary.   

[TomSea]

The Church shooter was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force over domestic violence? I'm just remembering this, so now, we really have two cases we can look at where the culprit of the crime, may well have had no right to possess these weapons.

I guess, Paddock did have such rights, unfortunately.

[driftdiver]

The Church shooter was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force over domestic violence? I'm just remembering this, so now, we really have two cases we can look at where the culprit of the crime, may well have had no right to possess these weapons.

I guess, Paddock did have such rights, unfortunately.

@TomSea

I believe Paddock was also under treatment inclyuding these drugs.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Acouple fo quick (admittedly rhetorical) questions: Was Cruz taking the types of meds which commonly have undesirable effects when they are simply stopped? Had his prescriptions been consistently filled, or intermittently, or not at all?

Did these health professionals  discharge him as 'cured' (no longer requiring treatment) or had he simply quit on his own (often a sign of problems in itself)? If the latter, why no follow-up, or what attempt at follow-up was done?

Not much on this 'MH Clinic' in this report.

But them discharging him as 'Cured' would put them in a world of Legal Jeopardy.

NO ONE ever gets Cured.

And No One gets 'Treated' without being lifelong Diagnosed 1st.

[austingirl]

@TomSea

I believe Paddock was also under treatment inclyuding these drugs.

@driftdiver
Paddock refused antidepressants, was prescribed benzos for anxiety. Didn't take many and while traces were found in his urine, there was none in his bloodstream.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@driftdiver
Paddock refused antidepressants, was prescribed benzos for anxiety. Didn't take many and while traces were found in his urine, there was none in his bloodstream.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome

"Benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome—often abbreviated to benzo withdrawal—is the cluster of symptoms that emerge when a person who has taken benzodiazepines, either medically or recreationally, and has developed a physical dependence undergoes dosage reduction or discontinuation. Development of physical dependence and/or addiction and the resulting withdrawal symptoms, some of which may last for years, may result from either drug-seeking behaviors or from taking the medication as prescribed. Benzodiazepine withdrawal is characterized by sleep disturbance, irritability, increased tension and anxiety, panic attacks, hand tremor, shaking, sweating, difficulty with concentration, confusion and cognitive difficulty, memory problems, dry retching and nausea, weight loss, palpitations, headache, muscular pain and stiffness, a host of perceptual changes, hallucinations, seizures, psychosis,[1] and suicide[2][3] (see "Signs and Symptoms" section below for full list). Further, these symptoms are notable for the manner in which they wax and wane and vary in severity from day to day or week by week instead of steadily decreasing in a straightforward monotonic manner.[4]"

[austingirl]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome

"Benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome—often abbreviated to benzo withdrawal—is the cluster of symptoms that emerge when a person who has taken benzodiazepines, either medically or recreationally, and has developed a physical dependence undergoes dosage reduction or discontinuation. Development of physical dependence and/or addiction and the resulting withdrawal symptoms, some of which may last for years, may result from either drug-seeking behaviors or from taking the medication as prescribed. Benzodiazepine withdrawal is characterized by sleep disturbance, irritability, increased tension and anxiety, panic attacks, hand tremor, shaking, sweating, difficulty with concentration, confusion and cognitive difficulty, memory problems, dry retching and nausea, weight loss, palpitations, headache, muscular pain and stiffness, a host of perceptual changes, hallucinations, seizures, psychosis,[1] and suicide[2][3] (see "Signs and Symptoms" section below for full list). Further, these symptoms are notable for the manner in which they wax and wane and vary in severity from day to day or week by week instead of steadily decreasing in a straightforward monotonic manner.[4]"

Everything I've read about when and how many benzos were prescribed to Paddock make it very unlikely he was affected with withdrawal syndrome. He was eating well, very organized, and planned his slaughter carefully.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Everything I've read about when and how many benzos were prescribed to Paddock make it very unlikely he was affected with withdrawal syndrome. He was eating well, very organized, and planned his slaughter carefully.

A complete withdrawal from Benzos can take years, coming and going in bouts.

[berdie]

This is such a long thread I'm embarrassed to say that I didn't read the whole thing as I usually do before I post.

There is no good answer to solve this problem.

Gun control? there will always be guns. Or cars or bombs or machetes.

Armed staff? They can't be every where.

The answer lies within the individual who chooses to commit the crime.

How do you stop crazy?

[verga]

Have you seen his NY permit?  Is he an Honorably Discharged Vet?

The info I have found says must be 21.

http://www.ny.gov/services/apply-firearms-license

To be eligible to have a firearms license you:

Must be a New York State resident
Must be 21 years old
-A person under 21 who has been honorably discharged from military service is eligible to apply for a firearms license.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newyork.pdf

https://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/new-york-gun-laws

@thackney This was almost 35 years ago, I saw his permit, I literally grew up right next to him, and yes it was completely legal.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I notice over the past numbers of pages on this thread that the discussion on drugs instead of gun regulation has muted the libs on the site.

Discussion of individual responsibility has no reaction from those wishing to control people through regulation.

Speaks volumes.