Trump decries lack of ‘due process’ for men accused of sexual harassment, abuse

[Emjay]

According to what I've read, there were multiple police reports as well as a court protective order against Porter.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/rob-porters-history-of-domestic-abuse-wasnt-a-secret.html

See, that is what I have trouble with.  Multiple police reports and she still stays with him.  I just don't get it.  One slap and I would be gone.

[Emjay]

Power and money. They can get you a good attorney that can get you off of almost anything.

We had a former DA here in town arrested for drunk driving (repeat offender many times over) and was found with several bags of cocaine on him. He made a deal through the good old boy network w/ the current DA and walked with just a 2 month probation and clean record after that.

Those stories are interesting but not really relevant to the case in point.  I'm sure that kind of thing happens.  It shouldn't.

[Restored]

Yep. Finding men willing to sexually harass or abuse women is next to impossible these days 

[Emjay]

Yep. Finding men willing to sexually harass or abuse women is next to impossible these days 

I really doubt that it is as prevalent as you seem to believe.  Women have other options now.  They don't have to stay with an abuser because they don't know how to make a living on their own.

[Restored]

I really doubt that it is as prevalent as you seem to believe.  Women have other options now.  They don't have to stay with an abuser because they don't know how to make a living on their own.

It depends on whether you believe in Binary Gender. If you don't, there are no abused women because there are no women.

[Emjay]

It depends on whether you believe in Binary Gender. If you don't, there are no abused women because there are no women.

Okay, you've officially gone round the bend.  Maybe we should put a pin in this thread.

[ABX]

See, that is what I have trouble with.  Multiple police reports and she still stays with him.  I just don't get it.  One slap and I would be gone.

It was actually part of the divorce process, so she didn't stay with him...

But even if she did, you really don't know the full story. She may have lived her entire life in abusive situations and doesn't know how to cope. She may have had the hard choice, if she didn't have at support system or even a job, of staying or being homeless. There are so many factors it is hard to just make a blanket conclusion. I know women who stayed with a jackass abusive husband for years because they simply didn't have an option- no family, no job, few friends. Even many churches these days seem to care more about decorating and expensive music and lighting than they do taking care of people. Some abusers take advantage of this too, setting it up where the woman (and in rare cases the man) has no choice but to stay.

[anubias]

Well bless her heart.

Yep.  She wasn’t satisfied with ruining his life without even having to press charges.

[Emjay]

It was actually part of the divorce process, so she didn't stay with him...

But even if she did, you really don't know the full story. She may have lived her entire life in abusive situations and doesn't know how to cope. She may have had the hard choice, if she didn't have at support system or even a job, of staying or being homeless. There are so many factors it is hard to just make a blanket conclusion. I know women who stayed with a jackass abusive husband for years because they simply didn't have an option- no family, no job, few friends. Even many churches these days seem to care more about decorating and expensive music and lighting than they do taking care of people. Some abusers take advantage of this too, setting it up where the woman (and in rare cases the man) has no choice but to stay.

I know all that and I didn't mean to imply that anything was her fault.  But she and her husband were not in the kind of financial circumstances that would preclude other choices for her.

[bolobaby]

it is funny that the one time he brings this up, it is when one of his staffers is accused AND there are photos of the bruised up ex he beat up. (ie, not exactly a he said/she said case).

Bzzzt, @AbaraXas . That's a photo of a woman with a black-eye, which could have been received during any number of mishaps.

As I stated in another thread: while on my honeymoon, I accidentally slammed my head into the corner of a car door and suffered a huge gash. I *know* there is a photo of it somewhere. Me looking miserable with a gash on my head. A picture of an injury does not *in any way* prove how the injury was suffered. Can I now show that photo off and claim my wife did it to me?

“The new mantra is ‘We believe the women,’ and he is frozen in ‘I believe the men,’ ” Speier said in an interview. “He’s beyond rehabilitation in my view.”

I kind of like the OLD mantra. You know... the one that goes, "Innocent until proven guilty?"

[bolobaby]

According to what I've read, there were multiple police reports as well as a court protective order against Porter.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/rob-porters-history-of-domestic-abuse-wasnt-a-secret.html

@AbaraXas Bzzzzt! Wrong *again*. Falling into a habit, now, are we?

There is ONE police report for a domestic dispute. This was an argument where the bitchy ex-wife was trying to kick a man out of his own house. So he struck.... a glass door. Not the woman. A glass door.

From this, the bitchy ex-wife was able to secure a protective order because she was soooo fearful after this incident.

Believe me: she wasn't afraid. She was marking her territory in a bitter divorce, as women are wont to do. She was getting him kicked out of the house so she could claim it as her sole residence during the divorce proceedings.

Learn how this stuff works and how women claim "fear" in order to play the system for as much as they can possibly get.

[edpc]

I kind of like the OLD mantra. You know... the one that goes, "Innocent until proven guilty?"

Well, even with all the due process talk, Conway was on TV this weekend talking about contemporaneous evidence and how what was important was Porter resigned.  Since the pic and news about the protection order came out, they can't get far enough away from him.

[bolobaby]

Well, even with all the due process talk, Conway was on TV this weekend talking about contemporaneous evidence and how what was important was Porter resigned.  Since the pic and news about the protection order came out, they can't get far enough away from him.

"contemporaneous evidence"

Is that a special buzz word for "evidence that wouldn't stand up in court?"

[edpc]

"contemporaneous evidence"

Is that a special buzz word for "evidence that wouldn't stand up in court?"

No, it's a special buzzword for evidence documented at the time it happened and not some fuzzy, made up recollection more than a decade later.  It actually carries a lot of weight in court.

[Concerned]

Well, even with all the due process talk, Conway was on TV this weekend talking about contemporaneous evidence and how what was important was Porter resigned.  Since the pic and news about the protection order came out, they can't get far enough away from him.

Exactly:

Conway told CNN she was "horrified" by the allegations, adding, "I have no reason not to believe these women."

"In this case, you have contemporaneous police reports, you have women speaking to the FBI under threat of perjury ... you have photographs, and when you look at all of that pulled together, Rob Porter did the right thing by resigning," she said.

Conway also said the President is "very disturbed" by Porter's alleged behavior; White House legislative affairs director Marc Short echoed that characterization on Sunday.

"In talking with the President, I think he's saddened about what happened with Rob," Short said on NBC's "Meet the Press" "I think he's very disturbed by it, and I think he's very disappointed. I think he believes that the resignation was appropriate."

http://www.cnn.com/2018/02/11/politics/kellyanne-conway-rob-porter-sotu-cnntv/index.html

[Emjay]

Bzzzt, @AbaraXas . That's a photo of a woman with a black-eye, which could have been received during any number of mishaps.

As I stated in another thread: while on my honeymoon, I accidentally slammed my head into the corner of a car door and suffered a huge gash. I *know* there is a photo of it somewhere. Me looking miserable with a gash on my head. A picture of an injury does not *in any way* prove how the injury was suffered. Can I now show that photo off and claim my wife did it to me?

I kind of like the OLD mantra. You know... the one that goes, "Innocent until proven guilty?"

I had totally forgotten this incident but a few years back I was walking my dog and I tripped over a tree root.  I was walking fast and I didn't even put my arms out to break the fall.  I literally fell on my face.  I remember telling my husband, "I could soooo put you in jail with this face."

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Is there a police report.  Hospital report.   She could have slipped and fell.  Hit her head on a table top.

Colbie Holderness (pictured) said "'We were arguing and he punched me in the face. He left visible marks when he punched me and I have pictures of that. I didn't go the police because I was scared, I was in Italy alone and I didn't know what to do."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5384603/Rob-Porter-told-staffers-wifes-black-eye-accident.html

Porter says...

Porter reportedly said they started struggling after Holderness was 'ready to throw glass onto the floor to smash'.
He said he never punched her and she suffered the black eye when she fell during the struggle. 

His other battered wife, Jennifer Willoughby, did call the cops on Porter's ass, and filed a restraining order when Porter "accidentally" punched his fist through her front doorway...


This maybe why he couldn't pass a background check.

Porter says...

But Porter reportedly told his staff that he had just been tapping on the glass with his index finger when it broke.
He said he went into the house to treat the cut on his knuckle, but Willoughby ordered him to leave and she called the police.   

I don't have the police report, I don't trust the media to be fair, and I once met a woman who lied to me.
Still there are 2 ex-wives who say he was physically abusive and their stories are backed with evidence like photos, police report, protective order, and statements.  I'm inclined to believe Rob Porter did abuse his wives.

Does that necessarily preclude him from handling classified information?  My opinion is yes, and according to FBI rules it does also.  That makes him a poor choice for the duties he resigned from.

Rob Porter could have had his due process.  He could have denied the accusations and fought.  Instead he denied the accusations and fled.  He could have plead his case to the people in a friendly environment like Hanity, or Rush.  If I was in his supposed shoes and had been slandered and defamed I would never let both my ex-wives stab me in the back without a fight.

But he did not do that. Rob Porter got the he11 out of Dodge.  I suspect he knew the truth, looked at the facts, and faced reality.  He knew he messed up, he knew it was documented, and he believed that more digging, more clarifying, more coverage was not in his best interest.

Because his resignation was accepted I guess the President agreed, but it also seems clear the President wanted Porter to fight.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/new-kids-on-the-block/552911/

“We found out about it recently and I was surprised by it, but we certainly wish him well and it's a tough time for him,” Trump said, in his first comments about Porter’s departure. “As you probably know says he's innocent and I think you have to remember that. He said very strongly yesterday that he's innocent so you have to talk to him about that, but we absolutely wish him well, he did a very good job when he was at the White House.”

I have never felt so sorry for a wife-beater before.  I don't know if President Trump really thinks Porter is innocent, but I do know that he knows no scandal, no matter how well documented, no matter how well substantiated, can touch him now. 

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters." - Candidate Trump. 

Nobody believes the "Fake News"  They declared hillary President for 2 years before the 2016 elections.  The "Fake News" only influences the rats and NTs.  Irritants to those social network bubble are quickly shouted down, and marginalized so they all can live in a state of perpetual fear of the next Armageddon that springs from the end of net neutrality, or withdrawing from the Paris Climate Accord, and so they can enjoy the warm safety of their shared cognitive dissonance.   

The truth doesn't matter, the facts don't matter, and reality doesn't matter.  Porter didn't have to quit. He quit because he didn't have the imagination and balls that President Trump has.  Loser.

[Jazzhead]

Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.), a leader in the effort to combat sexual harassment in Congress, said her stomach turned when she saw Trump’s tweet Saturday morning.

“The new mantra is ‘We believe the women,’ and he is frozen in ‘I believe the men,’ ” Speier said in an interview. “He’s beyond rehabilitation in my view.”

A call for due process makes her sick to her stomach?   Only a fascist would express such sentiments.   

[bolobaby]

@Once-Ler

So much wrong with your analysis above. First off, "she says" from an ex-wife is hardly evidence. They are worse than hostile witnesses. They are evil, manipulative women who relish in the suffering of their exes. The photo of the black-eye from Italy proves ONE thing: she got a black-eye. She's lying if she said Porter gave it to her without any substantiative evidence.

Second, you refer to the residence as "her house." It was actually HIS house until the spiteful woman kicked him out. Final ownership of the house was not established as divorce proceedings were not complete. Why was he there? Did he *need* something out of the house and she was being a rotten bitch and refusing to let him in to get it? Probably.

See how much fun it is to play with assumptions like you do?

Bottom line, all of this "evidence" forces us to assume A LOT, which you seem eager to do against Porter.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

@Once-Ler

So much wrong with your analysis above. First off, "she says" from an ex-wife is hardly evidence. They are worse than hostile witnesses. They are evil, manipulative women who relish in the suffering of their exes. The photo of the black-eye from Italy proves ONE thing: she got a black-eye. She's lying if she said Porter gave it to her without any substantiative evidence.

Second, you refer to the residence as "her house." It was actually HIS house until the spiteful woman kicked him out. Final ownership of the house was not established as divorce proceedings were not complete. Why was he there? Did he *need* something out of the house and she was being a rotten bitch and refusing to let him in to get it? Probably.

See how much fun it is to play with assumptions like you do?

Bottom line, all of this "evidence" forces us to assume A LOT, which you seem eager to do against Porter.

I still remain confident in my opinion.  Thank you for your reply.

[txradioguy]

Hey, she picked the guy.  She stayed with him after several instances of abuse. 

Maybe she oughta shut up now.  She got the guy fired.

As for Trump, he's been the target of so many false accusations, it's kinda natural that he would side with an accused person... at least until the charges are provenn.

Just...wow! 

[txradioguy]

A call for due process makes her sick to her stomach?   Only a fascist would express such sentiments.

It's not the call for due process...it's the person who is making that call giving her nausea.  In this instance can't say as I blame her.

[Neverdul]

It's a complete misunderstanding.  She said, "There is something wrong with my eye - can you take a look?"  He said, "Sure, I'll give it a shot."

"I swear, I was just standing still, I was not doing anything when she slipped and fell and her eye fell into my raised closed fist."


"Oh, and I just lightly tapped my finger on the glass door when it shattered."

 

[Restored]

The whole debacle puts us in the precarious position of deciding what behavior outside of government office is unacceptable. The Democrats told us that Clinton abusing women was acceptable. So why is Porter's behavior unacceptable for a lesser position. If Porter had been smoking weed, having sex with porn stars, having sex with Congressional Pages who were minors (Gerry Stutts), is that a firing offense? Is the mere presence of an accusation grounds for dismissal?

Where is the line?

[Concerned]

The whole debacle puts us in the precarious position of deciding what behavior outside of government office is unacceptable. The Democrats told us that Clinton abusing women was acceptable. So why is Porter's behavior unacceptable for a lesser position. If Porter had been smoking weed, having sex with porn stars, having sex with Congressional Pages who were minors (Gerry Stutts), is that a firing offense? Is the mere presence of an accusation grounds for dismissal?

Where is the line?

In this case, “the line” to me is the ability to get a security clearance.  This job requires a security clearance.  Porter apparently couldn’t get one.  When that happens, it’s not unusual for the person to be let go because they can’t meet the minimum requirements for the job.  I’ve seen it happen repeatedly.