Trump uses State of the Union to go all in on immigration reform

[libertybele]

Got it.  Thanks.

Oh Please ... the drama (again)!  Interesting that you're still refusing to answer my question.  Are you denying that Trump campaigned on stating 'NO AMNESTY'? 

Either you don't see what's happening or you refuse to acknowledge it. Apparently by you applauding and giving Trump a pat on the back for wanting to give DACA recipients a pathway to citizenship you don't mind him handing the DEMS 1.8 million new voters, making it nearly impossible for any GOP to be seated in Congress which would inevitably give the DEMS control of Congress and the oval office, not to mention in turn the DEMS will grant amnesty to all and continue to allow chain migration.  Got it.  Thanks.

[Jazzhead]

Trump exposed the Rats last night as the wacko nutjobs they really are. He gave them a huge offer on illegals in return for a wall and they all sat on their hands. Most Americans are going to see it as a fair deal and side with Donny when the Rats inevitably blow it up because of their special interest obligations.

It was a huge offer - he went out on a limb to not only offer legal residency to the Dreamers but also a pathway to citizenship and renewable legal status to their parents.   I think that is the right thing to do, but there are plenty in Trump's base who think he went too far.

Meanwhile, the far left is up in arms as well,  because he dares to ask for billions for border security and a shift away from family to skills-based immigration (in that regard mirroring much of the rest of the Western world.)

I love it - a proposal that pisses off both the far left and the far right.   But is there enough courage in the center to unite to pass a bill that is opposed by the fringies?   

[Jazzhead]

I think removing DACA, as an issue removes the rats most powerful argument against immigration limits and increased border enforcement  I wish I had hope for its passage, but republicans just have not had the stamina to do anything about the immigration issue since 86 and their legislative performance last year was anemic.  Worse still, passing this package can't be done with just republican's.  It will require rat votes because some republicans will not vote for it.  It may require making it more liberal to get rat votes, and someone else can't just write the speech for President Trump.  It would require him to spend political capital he doesn't have, and get off his butt and lobby for the bill instead of waiting for it to come to him to sign.

Well said, sir.   It is worth it to "make it more liberal to get rat votes" because removing DACA will give conservatives more leverage to get what they need to address the broader issues of legal and illegal immigration.    Let's not forget that the Dems well know that 75-plus percent of the American people sympathize with the plight of the Dreamers.   They are seen as folks without fault, and caught in a world they never made.   

[libertybele]

It was a huge offer - he went out on a limb to not only offer legal residency to the Dreamers but also a pathway to citizenship and renewable legal status to their parents.   I think that is the right thing to do, but there are plenty in Trump's base who think he went too far.

Meanwhile, the far left is up in arms as well,  because he dares to ask for billions for border security and a shift away from family to skills-based immigration (in that regard mirroring much of the rest of the Western world.)

I love it - a proposal that pisses off both the far left and the far right.   But is there enough courage in the center to unite to pass a bill that is opposed by the fringies?

Yes, I am opposed to granting 3.6 million people amnesty and handing the votes and Congressional seats to the DEMS.   So, I really see this as a win for the DEMS. Even if they give Trump an end to chain migration and future $$ for a wall what is going to stop them from reversing that in the future and what is going to stop them for granting amnesty to ALL illegals?  As for the parents that he will be granting citizenship to, will they be vetted as well? 

[Oceander]

Yes, I am opposed to granting 3.6 million people amnesty and handing the votes and Congressional seats to the DEMS.   So, I really see this as a win for the DEMS. Even if they give Trump an end to chain migration and future $$ for a wall what is going to stop them from reversing that in the future and what is going to stop them for granting amnesty to ALL illegals?  As for the parents that he will be granting citizenship to, will they be vetted as well? 

Well, maybe instead of engaging in hatred and xenophobia, you might try persuading any new voters that your political views are better for them than are the democrats?

Nah, too hard; it might require patience and hard work, and lacks the instant gratification of indulging in hatred. 

[Jazzhead]

Well, maybe instead of engaging in hatred and xenophobia, you might try persuading any new voters that your political views are better for them than are the democrats?

Nah, too hard; it might require patience and hard work, and lacks the instant gratification of indulging in hatred.

See, that's the thing - too many see Hispanic voters as beyond the reach of the GOP.   Well,  how can that be when so many of them are culturally conservative?  Of course,  the Dems ride the identity politics train, but we go along for the ride when we condemn "amnesty" for folks who didn't break any laws to come here and darkly suggest that allowing them to remain will change our "demographics".   

[libertybele]

See, that's the thing - too many see Hispanic voters as beyond the reach of the GOP.   Well,  how can that be when so many of them are culturally conservative?  Of course,  the Dems ride the identity politics train, but we go along for the ride when we condemn "amnesty" for folks who didn't break any laws to come here and darkly suggest that allowing them to remain will change our "demographics".

Your notion that Hispanics are culturally conservative and vote Republican are simply not true.



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/14/key-facts-about-the-latino-vote-in-2016/

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Your notion that Hispanics are culturally conservative and vote Republican are simply not true.



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/14/key-facts-about-the-latino-vote-in-2016/

Your notion that Jazzhead said Hispanics vote republican is simply not true, but Jazzhead is correct that Hispanics are culturally conservative.

[txradioguy]

But, what about the wacko republicans and conservatives calling for the immediate arrest and deportation of any illegals who are reported to be in attendance at the SOTU speech as guests of democrats and of one republican.

The Libs and that one republican were in direct violation of federal immigration law. 

What's so "whacko" about enforcing the rule of law?

[txradioguy]

Your notion that Jazzhead said Hispanics vote republican is simply not true, but Jazzhead is correct that Hispanics are culturally conservative.

And yet they overwhelmingly vote Democrat.  The numbers of Latino voters supporting the Republican candidate have continued to drop since Reagan foolishly signed that amnesty bill in 1986.

[libertybele]

Your notion that Jazzhead said Hispanics vote republican is simply not true, but Jazzhead is correct that Hispanics are culturally conservative.

Lol ... my bad (obviously).  Hispanics have favored voting for DEMS since the '80s.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/14/key-facts-about-the-latino-vote-in-2016/

[skeeter]

Your notion that Jazzhead said Hispanics vote republican is simply not true, but Jazzhead is correct that Hispanics are culturally conservative.

By all accounts the black community is 'culturally conservative' as well. Notwithstanding that, they vote what they perceive are their self interests, which the democrat party has neatly defined for them.

[txradioguy]

By all accounts the black community is 'culturally conservative' as well. Notwithstanding that, they vote what they perceive are their self interests, which the democrat party has neatly defined for them.

All the black community has done by continuing to support the Democrat party en masse is trade one form of slavery and one type of plantation for another.

[skeeter]

All the black community has done by continuing to support the Democrat party en masse is trade one form of slavery and one type of plantation for another.

Of course, but the message the democrats sell, as poisonous as it is, is too easy to digest & attractive to pass up.

A message of self reliance and individualism apparently doesn't have a chance against it.

[txradioguy]

Of course, but the message the democrats sell, as poisonous as it is, is too easy to digest & attractive to pass up.

A message of self reliance and individualism apparently doesn't have a chance against it.

Nope it gets shouted down as racist.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Lol ... my bad (obviously).  Hispanics have favored voting for DEMS since the '80s.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/14/key-facts-about-the-latino-vote-in-2016/

Hispanic opinions on issues of abortion, same sex marriage, and the role religion in society are widely documented.

[TomSea]

And I've heard governmental assistance programs ends up trumping those values.  Probably the same with blacks.

As far as new immigrants go, from the other continents, I believe Christian Africans would be the most conservative and hard working. They are escaping oppressive situations often such as in Nigeria, Sudan and so on.

On the other hand, crime is now very widespread in Mexico and involved in human trafficking and immigration to the US.

[Jazzhead]

Your notion that Hispanics are culturally conservative and vote Republican are simply not true.



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/14/key-facts-about-the-latino-vote-in-2016/

I know they don't tend to vote Republican.  But I also know they tend to be hard working, family oriented and religious - all markers of cultural conservatism.   President Bush was able to appeal to millions of Hispanics.   Maybe the problem is us, not them.   

[Jazzhead]

All the black community has done by continuing to support the Democrat party en masse is trade one form of slavery and one type of plantation for another.

Correct!   There is tremendous opportunity out there for smart conservatives to appeal to hard working Americans, regardless of color or ethnicity.  Jack Kemp, one of my political heroes, knew that well.   

[Jazzhead]

Hispanic opinions on issues of abortion, same sex marriage, and the role religion in society are widely documented.

Thanks for the link, Once-ler.  It's true folks - Hispanics can be Republican voters, once we start acknowledging their virtues and stop demonizing them for messing up America's "demographics".   

[skeeter]

Thanks for the link, Once-ler.  It's true folks - Hispanics can be Republican voters, once we start acknowledging their virtues and stop demonizing them for messing up America's "demographics".

We're complaining about 'demographics' because of what we see happening with our own lyin' eyes.

But hey maybe you, the racialists in the democrat party and the chamber of commerce will get us to suspend rationality for another decade or so. Thats all it should take to convert the nation into the disunited socialist paradise we're currently on the road to.

[Jazzhead]

We're complaining about 'demographics' because of what we see happening with our own lyin' eyes.

The problems with illegal immigration are separate and apart from the false concern that Republicans can't appeal to Hispanic voters.   Illegals can't vote.  And illegals take jobs from Hispanics (and others) here legally.   Where I suspect you and me differ is with respect to legal immigration - I support more of it, to boost economic growth.  And anyone willing to come here to work hard and be part of the American community should be welcome - regardless of "demographics".   

[skeeter]

The problems with illegal immigration are separate and apart from the false concern that Republicans can't appeal to Hispanic voters.   Illegals can't vote.  And illegals take jobs from Hispanics (and others) here legally.   Where I suspect you and me differ is with respect to legal immigration - I support more of it, to boost economic growth.  And anyone willing to come here to work hard and be part of the American community should be welcome - regardless of "demographics".

Your last sentence I am in total accord with. As a matter of fact, we should provide opportunity to come be a part of our society to all corners of the world, and not just latin America. For example, right now Europeans are by & large frozen out.

And as long as those applicants meet minimum skills standards, including the ability to communicate in english, and can show they will not become a public burden, they should be allowed to apply. Don't you agree?

[Jazzhead]

And as long as those applicants meet minimum skills standards, including the ability to communicate in english, and can show they will not become a public burden, they should be allowed to apply. Don't you agree?

I agree.  I'd add that there should be a distinction between standards for immigration, and standards for accepting refugees, who seek to come here to escape persecution.   

[skeeter]

I agree.  I'd add that there should be a distinction between standards for immigration, and standards for accepting refugees, who seek to come here to escape persecution.

Sorry, no loopholes. We can provide food, blankets and encouragement for others to throw off oppression, but our immigration system has NO other use than to benefit Americans first, foremost and only.

It certainly should not be used to benefit a few fat cats and one political party over another, as it is currently.