Dick Durbin: Trump holding Dreamers 'hostage' with immigration plan

[Fantom]

I'm gonna wait to see how this plays out before gnashing teeth & rending garments.

With Trump, its 'don't listen to what he says' (he's a Manhattan real estate developer, for &^% sake), its 'watch what he does', or watch what results from his words.

I suspect he knows what the democrats consider at stake here and its possible he's making an offer for the world to see that he knows they'll refuse. If so then he'll be immune from their criticism & there'll be no reason for him to parley with them on the issue any more.

On the other hand, if this 1.8 million is a legitimate opening offer I'll join you in an epic primal scream.

I believe it's 1.8 million after 10-12 years, along with border wall, end of chain invasion, and the visa Achmed lotto.

On the face I could s'port this, especially if it added mandatory E-verify.

[Right_in_Virginia]

First of all I certainly don't trust govt. stats - the number has risen from 800,000 to 1.8 million, and secondly IF you think that the DEMS won't scream bloody murder after DACA passes because they won't allow their family members in via chain migration, you're fooling yourself.  In addition, the DEMS will have gained an additional 1.8 million voters -- do you really think that you will see another GOP seated?  They will also grant full-blown amnesty to the 20,000,000 already here and they will do away with the supposed stringent immigration rules that Trump is bargaining with.  What part of the 1.8 million additional DEM voters due to DACA amnesty don't you comprehend?

Thanks @libertybele  But you've chosen to panic and I've chosen not to.

Enjoy your weekend.

[libertybele]

I believe it's 1.8 million after 10-12 years, along with border wall, end of chain invasion, and the visa Achmed lotto.

On the face I could s'port this, especially if it added mandatory E-verify.

Reality check.  This year we could lose our majority in either House or God forbid both.  So ... do you really think that any of the proposed parameters surrounding DACA will remain in tact should we lose either House?  There is also the possibility that the SCOTUS could decide to take on this case as Trump has asked and rule in favor of DACA and if either happens all leverage is off the table for the wall and we'll still see chain migration, and the visa lotto without the money for the wall along with 1.8 million new DEM voters.  Therefore, IMHO, there is no negotiating on building the wall.  He needs to tell the DEMS, once the wall is budgeted, then we can bring the subject of DACA up (keep in mind that the deadline has already been extended for most).

I know that the Trump supporters feel that he is making a grand bargain, but so far he hasn't gained a whole lot and he should have negotiated for a wall first and foremost; using amnesty at any level as a bargaining chip is a huge mistake.  He's putting the sovereignty of our nation and the fate of the Republican party on the line. 

[libertybele]

Thanks @libertybele  But you've chosen to panic and I've chosen not to.

Enjoy your weekend.

No not panicking, nor am I foolishly jumping for joy and patting him on the back for proposing amnesty with the possibility of future funding for a wall and the end to chain migration while the possibility of the agreement on both can be overturned as early as next year should we not retain the majority.  Amnesty at any level should have never been used as a bargaining chip.

Enjoy your weekend RIV.

[Fantom]

Reality check.  This year we could lose our majority in either House or God forbid both.  So ... do you really think that any of the proposed parameters surrounding DACA will remain in tact should we lose either House?  There is also the possibility that the SCOTUS could decide to take on this case as Trump has asked and rule in favor of DACA and if either happens all leverage is off the table for the wall and we'll still see chain migration, and the visa lotto without the money for the wall along with 1.8 million new DEM voters.  Therefore, IMHO, there is no negotiating on building the wall.  He needs to tell the DEMS, once the wall is budgeted, then we can bring the subject of DACA up (keep in mind that the deadline has already been extended for most).

I know that the Trump supporters feel that he is making a grand bargain, but so far he hasn't gained a whole lot and he should have negotiated for a wall first and foremost; using amnesty at any level as a bargaining chip is a huge mistake.  He's putting the sovereignty of our nation and the fate of the Republican party on the line.

@libertybele

Pardon me 'Bele... I am going to take my last shot, reply.... an then go to bed. ^-^

Last first, as is my wont.

First, what Trump put forth includes the Wall...paid in full, it includes an end to chain invasion, it includes the Achmed lotto. Would like it to include mandatory E-verify... and cut off of all funds to "sanctuary areas". But I would take this.

Then move the goal post if possible.

As to your first concern.... any wall/enforcement is subject to the next obama. Ephemeral at best, without the guards. And yes, those guards... SCUTUS is paramount....thank you President Trump/Turtle neck for Gorsuch.

I cannot promise you the Rose garden, every Congress can reverse the predicisor. Unless the obama judges in the 9th pull their crap.

[libertybele]

I believe it's 1.8 million after 10-12 years, along with border wall, end of chain invasion, and the visa Achmed lotto.

On the face I could s'port this, especially if it added mandatory E-verify.

Fantom?  E-verify??  Please seriously consider what you are applauding:

The Orwellian national ID scheme, known as "E-Verify," is ostensibly aimed at making it harder for illegal immigrants to find work in the United States. Basically, as part of the program, which would become mandatory under the bill, every employer would be forced to buy a scanner and use it to check the legal work status of potential employees. On top of that, every worker would be forced to have a biometric ID issued by the federal government in order to be able to legally work. Without this national ID, employers would not legally be able to hire somebody.

It is already illegal for employers to hire illegal immigrants. Passing new laws, like E-Verify, will not change anything. As Newman explains, "in reality, illegal immigrants are typically paid under the table anyway - many of them simply work as day laborers and get paid in cash at the end of the day. In light of that fact, the unconstitutional plot to mandate national ID will do little to prevent unscrupulous employers from continuing to hire illegal immigrants, off the books."

So just as how gun-control laws fail to prevent criminals from using guns to commit crimes, likewise E-Verify will not stop law-breaking companies and employers from hiring illegal immigrants. "What the scheme will do," according to Newman, "is [to] force all law-abiding Americans to carry an unconstitutional national ID with all their information on it, including sensitive biometric data, just to be allowed to work. It will also give the feds a key new tool to monitor and control people."

Also sounding the alarm - As Newman points out - is former Texas congressman and Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul, who in an e-mail to supporters and members of the non-profit Campaign for Liberty (C4L), warns:

That's right -- the statists want to control you.
Just think about it. . . Gun ownership. Employment history. Family and friends. Purchasing habits. Health records. Travel. Religious beliefs. Past political contributions [...], just imagine all these records and more on EVERY American citizen stored in a massive national database right at a federal government bureaucrat's finger tips.

Under this E-Verify "statists' National ID scheme," as Paul puts it, "you'd be forced to carry around your National ID card, tied to this massive database, chockfull of biometric identifiers like fingerprints and retina scans." And to see just how far-reaching this program would be, Paul states that those who don't have the onerous biometric ID "won't be able to legally hold a job -- or likely even open a bank account or even board a plane!"

[Fantom]

Fantom?  E-verify??  Please seriously consider what you are applauding:

The Orwellian national ID scheme, known as "E-Verify," is ostensibly aimed at making it harder for illegal immigrants to find work in the United States. Basically, as part of the program, which would become mandatory under the bill, every employer would be forced to buy a scanner and use it to check the legal work status of potential employees. On top of that, every worker would be forced to have a biometric ID issued by the federal government in order to be able to legally work. Without this national ID, employers would not legally be able to hire somebody.

It is already illegal for employers to hire illegal immigrants. Passing new laws, like E-Verify, will not change anything. As Newman explains, "in reality, illegal immigrants are typically paid under the table anyway - many of them simply work as day laborers and get paid in cash at the end of the day. In light of that fact, the unconstitutional plot to mandate national ID will do little to prevent unscrupulous employers from continuing to hire illegal immigrants, off the books."

So just as how gun-control laws fail to prevent criminals from using guns to commit crimes, likewise E-Verify will not stop law-breaking companies and employers from hiring illegal immigrants. "What the scheme will do," according to Newman, "is [to] force all law-abiding Americans to carry an unconstitutional national ID with all their information on it, including sensitive biometric data, just to be allowed to work. It will also give the feds a key new tool to monitor and control people."

Also sounding the alarm - As Newman points out - is former Texas congressman and Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul, who in an e-mail to supporters and members of the non-profit Campaign for Liberty (C4L), warns:

That's right -- the statists want to control you.
Just think about it. . . Gun ownership. Employment history. Family and friends. Purchasing habits. Health records. Travel. Religious beliefs. Past political contributions [...], just imagine all these records and more on EVERY American citizen stored in a massive national database right at a federal government bureaucrat's finger tips.

Under this E-Verify "statists' National ID scheme," as Paul puts it, "you'd be forced to carry around your National ID card, tied to this massive database, chockfull of biometric identifiers like fingerprints and retina scans." And to see just how far-reaching this program would be, Paul states that those who don't have the onerous biometric ID "won't be able to legally hold a job -- or likely even open a bank account or even board a plane!"

Oh my... I now have the vapors.  ... snicker my friend.

Seriously, today... your every essence is in a data bank. Certainly I, as a freeman... would rather that is not so.

Understanding that... E-verify is no more deleterious to a free person...or their rights as such, than is a SS number and filing taxes each year.  Or requiring voter ID.

Personally, this Simple Bricklayer is still able to work for cash..silver/gold. Not that I do.  :dx1:

[libertybele]

Oh my... I now have the vapors.  ... snicker my friend.

Seriously, today... your every essence is in a data bank. Certainly I, as a freeman... would rather that is not so.

Understanding that... E-verify is no more deleterious to a free person...or their rights as such, than is a SS number and filing taxes each year.  Or requiring voter ID.

Personally, this Simple Bricklayer is still able to work for cash..silver/gold. Not that I do.  :dx1:

You 'Simple Bricklayer' are a very lucky man and make some valid points, but why go along with giving Big Brother anymore control than he already has?

At any rate, have a good evening.

[Fantom]

You 'Simple Bricklayer' are a very lucky man and make some valid points, but why go along with giving Big Brother anymore control than he already has?

At any rate, have a good evening.

Thank you for the wish of a good evening. So far it is well enough..average. Hope yours is going at least as well. 

As we speak, I have had two 1099's delivered today in the mail. Seems, as an American....I have already proved my e-verify.

I would like Jesus...and the rest of the million jesus's to do the same.

Funny story, when I worked in Key West,  we had an illegal Englishman...an illegal Aussie, and an illegal Irishman. All were frends of mine...as have been many illegal aliens/muchado's.

Such does not change what is right.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Wait a second!?! 

Every hour chain migration allows X amount of immigrants to resettle in the US, but every day 24 times as many resettle?
And every week = X x 24 x 7?
And further every month X x 24 x 7 x 4?
And still every year X x 24 x 7 x 4 x 12?

Why has no explained this to me before?