Dick Durbin: Trump holding Dreamers 'hostage' with immigration plan

[Right_in_Virginia]

Dick Durbin: Trump holding Dreamers 'hostage' with immigration plan
Washington Examiner, Jan 25, 2018, Pete Kasperowicz

Senate Minority Whip Dick Durbin, D-Ill., a key senator in the talks to find an immigration deal, came out against President Trump's proposal for a grand bargain, in large part because it would curb legal immigration.

"Dreamers should not be held hostage to President Trump's crusade to tear families apart and waste billions of American tax dollars on an ineffective wall," Durbin said in a statement.

Trump's plan would put 1.8 million immigrants who came to the U.S. illegally as children on a decade-long path to citizenship. But that comes at a high price for Democrats, as he also wants $25 billion for a border wall and other security measures.

Trump also wants to end chain migration, the process by which immigrants can get their extended family members to America, and also wants to end the diversity visa lottery.

Durbin said that's all too much to ask.


More: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dick-durbin-trump-holding-dreamers-hostage-with-immigration-plan/article/2647132

[libertybele]

Dick Durbin: Trump holding Dreamers 'hostage' with immigration plan
Washington Examiner, Jan 25, 2018, Pete Kasperowicz

Senate Minority Whip Dick Durbin, D-Ill., a key senator in the talks to find an immigration deal, came out against President Trump's proposal for a grand bargain, in large part because it would curb legal immigration.

"Dreamers should not be held hostage to President Trump's crusade to tear families apart and waste billions of American tax dollars on an ineffective wall," Durbin said in a statement.

Trump's plan would put 1.8 million immigrants who came to the U.S. illegally as children on a decade-long path to citizenship. But that comes at a high price for Democrats, as he also wants $25 billion for a border wall and other security measures.

Trump also wants to end chain migration, the process by which immigrants can get their extended family members to America, and also wants to end the diversity visa lottery.

Durbin said that's all too much to ask.


More: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dick-durbin-trump-holding-dreamers-hostage-with-immigration-plan/article/2647132

What happened to Trump's building a wall and NO amnesty? Asking for $$ to put into a trust fund for future building of the wall (which the DEMS aren't going to allow anyways) and granting amnesty is NOT winning nor is it what he promised.

[Right_in_Virginia]

What happened to Trump's building a wall and NO amnesty? Asking for $$ to put into a trust fund for future building of the wall (which the DEMS aren't going to allow anyways) and granting amnesty is NOT winning nor is it what he promised.

@libertybele ... the wall, ending chain migration, ending the visa lottery, implementing merit based immigration are all part of the proposal (which has not yet been published).  A road to citizenship will also be proposed, but the parameters hinted at are stiff and long.  The President (and the candidate) never said he was going to pack up the DACA participants and ship them home  -- in fact he always said the opposite (remember the "with love" ?)

So my friendly advice is "hold your fire".  The games begin in earnest next week after the administration publishes its "immigration pillars" for legislative consideration. 

If nothing else. we should have learned by now that we have no idea what the bill put up for a vote will look like at this point --- despite what the "media" is currently reporting as fact.

Relax.

[BassWrangler]

@libertybele ... the wall, ending chain migration, ending the visa lottery, implementing merit based immigration are all part of the proposal (which has not yet been published).  A road to citizenship will also be proposed, but the parameters hinted at are stiff and long.  The President (and the candidate) never said he was going to pack up the DACA participants and ship them home  -- in fact he always said the opposite (remember the "with love" ?)

So my friendly advice is "hold your fire".  The games begin in earnest next week after the administration publishes its "immigration pillars" for legislative consideration. 

If nothing else. we should have learned by now that we have no idea what the bill put up for a vote will look like at this point --- despite what the "media" is currently reporting as fact.

Relax.

Except that this guy who purports to be a master deal maker just surrendered most of his bargaining position without getting a single concession from the other side.

All he has achieved is to confirm my opinion that he's an idiot elected (in the primary) by a bunch of clueless morons.

[libertybele]

@libertybele ... the wall, ending chain migration, ending the visa lottery, implementing merit based immigration are all part of the proposal (which has not yet been published).  A road to citizenship will also be proposed, but the parameters hinted at are stiff and long.  The President (and the candidate) never said he was going to pack up the DACA participants and ship them home  -- in fact he always said the opposite (remember the "with love" ?)

So my friendly advice is "hold your fire".  The games begin in earnest next week after the administration publishes its "immigration pillars" for legislative consideration. 

If nothing else. we should have learned by now that we have no idea what the bill put up for a vote will look like at this point --- despite what the "media" is currently reporting as fact.

Relax.

Not so fast. Proposing a trust fund for the wall?  Trust funds are typically set up for future use -- so he's basically asking the DEMS for an IOU on the wall.  Look, we've been waiting for Congress to fund the dang wall since 2006 (Secure Fence Act).  That's 12 years.  Building a wall is paramount and should be built before any consideration of amnesty is given in any form (I still say NO amnesty). Secondly, initially the number of DACA recipients was 800,000 now the number is up to 1.3 million.  He can say no to chain migration, and layout stringent guidelines, but at the end of the day, this is granting amnesty to a select group of people opening the flood gates on our borders and a catalyst for future amnesty for various different people -- he is giving the DEMS a future bargaining chip for more amnesty.  Once that is achieved, there will be no way to end chain migration as they will scream (and you know they will) that families are being separated.  Conservatively RIV we have over 20,000,000 illegals in this country multiply that by aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc., and you have a massive number of immigrants into this country.  Again not only do we lose our sovereignty but we will have given the DEMS a massive voting base and clearly numbers that the GOP won't be able to compete with. I know you trust Trump emphatically; but IMHO this is a disaster in the making.  Take a look at Europe. Take a look at how Sharia law is creeping into our society.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Not so fast. Proposing a trust fund for the wall?  Trust funds are typically set up for future use -- so he's basically asking the DEMS for an IOU on the wall.  Look, we've been waiting for Congress to fund the dang wall since 2006 (Secure Fence Act).  That's 12 years.  Building a wall is paramount and should be built before any consideration of amnesty is given in any form (I still say NO amnesty). Secondly, initially the number of DACA recipients was 800,000 now the number is up to 1.3 million.  He can say no to chain migration, and layout stringent guidelines, but at the end of the day, this is granting amnesty to a select group of people opening the flood gates on our borders and a catalyst for future amnesty for various different people -- he is giving the DEMS a future bargaining chip for more amnesty.  Once that is achieved, there will be no way to end chain migration as they will scream (and you know they will) that families are being separated.  Conservatively RIV we have over 20,000,000 illegals in this country multiply that by aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc., and you have a massive number of immigrants into this country.  Again not only do we lose our sovereignty but we will have given the DEMS a massive voting base and clearly numbers that the GOP won't be able to compete with. I know you trust Trump emphatically; but IMHO this is a disaster in the making.  Take a look at Europe. Take a look at how Sharia law is creeping into our society.

Okay then.     888ohnoes

[TomSea]

Except that this guy who purports to be a master deal maker just surrendered most of his bargaining position without getting a single concession from the other side.

All he has achieved is to confirm my opinion that he's an idiot elected (in the primary) by a bunch of clueless morons.

Hardly, the Democrats seem to be rejecting this out-of-hand already. The House Republicans, I hope that as they did with the 'Gang of 8' bill, won't let shoddy legislation pass.

This bill also ends for the most part, chain migration and birthright citizenship. I hope the House Republicans have the wisdom to stop this if it is indeed, a bad deal.

But it might take 17 years for this stopping chain migration I heard.

What stupid suicidal immigration laws we have had as a country. Probably made with good intentions but still.

[libertybele]

Okay then.     888ohnoes

Funny RIV ... I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens as a result of him granting amnesty without the wall in place.  My hunch, is, you're not going to be laughing.

[BassWrangler]

Hardly, the Democrats seem to be rejecting this out-of-hand already. The House Republicans, I hope that as they did with the 'Gang of 8' bill, won't let shoddy legislation pass.

This bill also ends for the most part, chain migration and birthright citizenship. I hope the House Republicans have the wisdom to stop this if it is indeed, a bad deal.

But it might take 17 years for this stopping chain migration I heard.

What stupid suicidal immigration laws we have had as a country. Probably made with good intentions but still.

Spoken like a true clueless moron Trump supporter. Of course the Democrats rejected the initial offer. That's how negotiations work. Do you expect the concessions to go backwards now? it doesn't work that way. 1.8 million new Democrats is now the baseline.

[libertybele]

Hardly, the Democrats seem to be rejecting this out-of-hand already. The House Republicans, I hope that as they did with the 'Gang of 8' bill, won't let shoddy legislation pass.

This bill also ends for the most part, chain migration and birthright citizenship. I hope the House Republicans have the wisdom to stop this if it is indeed, a bad deal.

But it might take 17 years for this stopping chain migration I heard.

What stupid suicidal immigration laws we have had as a country. Probably made with good intentions but still.

You're ok with that??  ...yeppers... and I have a really good 'used car' with only 150,000 miles on it to sell you.  17 years to end chain migration?  LMAO -- and by that time the DEM voting base will be absolutely enormously massive with absolutely no chance of any GOP having a seat in Congress let alone the oval office.  Wake up people.

Those 'suicidal' immigration laws were by intent to (once again) expand the DEM voting base.  That fact has already been stated by the DEMS themselves.  So ... why isn't anyone paying attention?

[libertybele]

Spoken like a true clueless moron Trump supporter. Of course the Democrats rejected the initial offer. That's how negotiations work. Do you expect the concessions to go backwards now? it doesn't work that way. 1.8 million new Democrats is now the baseline.

   Good grief ... finally, someone gets it!
 

[BassWrangler]

You're ok with that??  ...yeppers... and I have a really good 'used car' with only 150,000 miles on it to sell you.  17 years to end chain migration?  LMAO -- and by that time the DEM voting base will be absolutely enormously massive with absolutely no chance of any GOP having a seat in Congress let alone the oval office.  Wake up people.

Those 'suicidal' immigration laws were by intent to (once again) expand the DEM voting base.  That fact has already been stated by the DEMS themselves.  So ... why isn't anyone paying attention?

Yep. This is what I just don't get. it's political suicide for Republicans. I just don't understand how any of those in Congress support it. Trump I understand; he is an unprincipled idiot who just wants to be popular. But why does Ryan support this, for example.

[libertybele]

Except that this guy who purports to be a master deal maker just surrendered most of his bargaining position without getting a single concession from the other side.

All he has achieved is to confirm my opinion that he's an idiot elected (in the primary) by a bunch of clueless morons.

He's really not an idiot though, he was smart enough to dupe the people who voted for him in the primary into believing his promise of NO amnesty and a border wall.

[libertybele]

Yep. This is what I just don't get. it's political suicide for Republicans. I just don't understand how any of those in Congress support it. Trump I understand; he is an unprincipled idiot who just wants to be popular. But why does Ryan support this, for example.

At the end of the day, Ryan whether he retains his seat or not, will still get all the perks and benefits of being a U.S. Congressman. IMHO he is a globalist at heart (as is Trump) and I'm sure has made some deals.  Trump is also not going to do anything that's not in the best interest of Trump making money.  I've said it before, watch for him to grant amnesty, re-negotiate NAFTA and build a superhighway connecting Mexico, the U.S. and Canada...he's going to make a boat load of money!

[BassWrangler]

He's really not an idiot though, he was smart enough to dupe the people who voted for him in the primary into believing his promise of NO amnesty and a border wall.

We might have to disagree on that one. I don't think his victory was due to intelligence, but rather a rebound effect of voters frustrated with decades of watching Republicans ignore their concerns, prematurely surrender, and refuse to stand up to the media and the Democrats. Unfortunately, in addition to the positive of getting an outsider, we got the huge negative of getting an unprincipled assclown with zero self control and zero grasp of the issues. It still amazes me to this day that people voted for a guy that did little more than call his opponents childish names and make empty promises 180 degrees out of phase with positions he was espousing just a few years before. I guess it is true that a sucker is born every minute.

[catfish1957]

We might have to disagree on that one. I don't think his victory was due to intelligence, but rather a rebound effect of voters frustrated with decades of watching Republicans ignore their concerns, prematurely surrender, and refuse to stand up to the media and the Democrats.

Hey anymore  innovative donating to FR lately?   Your last stunt is a legend.

[BassWrangler]

Hey anymore  innovative donating to FR lately?   Your last stunt is a legend.

Not yet, but I have been considering something when we get closer to the end of the current thon. Don't want to discuss on the open forum - spies everywhere!

[edpc]

These 'hostages' sure seem to be enjoying a lot of American freedom.  Just ask the ones outside Schumer's house.

[BassWrangler]

These 'hostages' sure seem to be enjoying a lot of American freedom.  Just ask the ones outside Schumer's house.

Yep. Nothing makes me want to set up human catapults on the Mexican border more than pics of these people giving us the finger and holding up a sign that says "deport this."

[libertybele]

Yep. Nothing makes me want to set up human catapults on the Mexican border more than pics of these people giving us the finger and holding up a sign that says "deport this."

Well, that actually brings me back to my thoughts of a solid wall and land mines ...of course it should be announced (and large signs)  that the wall is 'armed' and the U.S. now has a zero tolerance policy for border crossing; anyone crossing WILL be considered an enemy and dealt with accordingly.

[skeeter]

  Good grief ... finally, someone gets it!

I'm gonna wait to see how this plays out before gnashing teeth & rending garments.

With Trump, its 'don't listen to what he says' (he's a Manhattan real estate developer, for &^% sake), its 'watch what he does', or watch what results from his words.

I suspect he knows what the democrats consider at stake here and its possible he's making an offer for the world to see that he knows they'll refuse. If so then he'll be immune from their criticism & there'll be no reason for him to parley with them on the issue any more.

On the other hand, if this 1.8 million is a legitimate opening offer I'll join you in an epic primal scream.

[BassWrangler]

Well, that actually brings me back to my thoughts of a solid wall and land mines ...of course it should be announced (and large signs)  that the wall is 'armed' and the U.S. now has a zero tolerance policy for border crossing; anyone crossing WILL be considered an enemy and dealt with accordingly.

I've had the same thought (land mines). Never happen though. There are international treaties of which the US is part that forbid that.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I'm gonna wait to see how this plays out before gnashing teeth & rending garments.

With Trump, its 'don't listen to what he says' (he's a Manhattan real estate developer, for &^% sake), its 'watch what he does', or watch what results from his words.

I suspect he knows what the democrats consider at stake here and its possible he's making an offer for the world to see that he knows they'll refuse. If so then he'll be immune from their criticism & there'll be no reason for him to parley with them on the issue any more.

On the other hand, if this 1.8 million is a legitimate opening offer I'll join you in an epic primal scream. 

You had me right up to "on the other hand" @skeeter   

First, there is no way under God's heaven that 888,000 + souls are going to be rounded up and frog-marched into boats for deportation.  It's just not going to happen.  If there is a path to citizenship included in the final deal, it will be long, difficult and no nonsense.  The details are dribbling out ... so I'm not going to quote them, but the path will not be for all or fast.

But before you go for the epic primal scream,  measure this against the gains of a potential tradeoff:

The wall and increased border security---a plus.  An end to the visa program---a plus.  An immigration program based on merit is an immeasurable plus. As the President said today in his speech in Davos: 

"We must replace our current system of extended-family chain migration with a merit-based system of admissions that selects new arrivals based on their ability to contribute to our economy, to support themselves financially, and to strengthen our country."

Here's what today's chain migration alone means to the US --- and remember, the anchor migrant is not subject to any merit screening so neither is his or her chain:



The number of DACA participants who would be lucky enough to find themselves on the long, tough road to citizenship pale in comparison to the number of migrants unvetted for merit given a path to citizenship  --- each and every year--- solely through extended family chain migration.

So, if we "get":
The wall, increased border patrol and law enforcement capabilities
An end to the Visa lottery migration program
An end to extended family migration
A merit based immigration system as defined today by the President .......

then the path to citizenship, tough and enforced for eligible DACA participants, is a tradeoff that would put the new immigration bill in the "WIN" column.

We need to stay vigilant during the process about to unfold in Congress ... while we strive not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And this is my $.02 on the matter.   ^-^

[libertybele]

You had me right up to "on the other hand" @skeeter   

First, there is no way under God's heaven that 888,000 + souls are going to be rounded up and frog-marched into boats for deportation.  It's just not going to happen.  If there is a path to citizenship included in the final deal, it will be long, difficult and no nonsense.  The details are dribbling out ... so I'm not going to quote them, but the path will not be for all or fast.

But before you go for the epic primal scream,  measure this against the gains of a potential tradeoff:

The wall and increased border security---a plus.  An end to the visa program---a plus.  An immigration program based on merit is an immeasurable plus. As the President said today in his speech in Davos: 
Here's what today's chain migration alone means to the US --- and remember, the anchor migrant is not subject to any merit screening so neither is his or her chain:



The number of DACA participants who would be lucky enough to find themselves on the long, tough road to citizenship pale in comparison to the number of migrants unvetted for merit given a path to citizenship  --- each and every year--- solely through extended family chain migration.

So, if we "get":
The wall, increased border patrol and law enforcement capabilities
An end to the Visa lottery migration program
An end to extended family migration
A merit based immigration system as defined today by the President .......

then the path to citizenship, tough and enforced for eligible DACA participants, is a tradeoff that would put the new immigration bill in the "WIN" column.

We need to stay vigilant during the process about to unfold in Congress ... while we strive not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And this is my $.02 on the matter.   ^-^

First of all I certainly don't trust govt. stats - the number has risen from 800,000 to 1.8 million, and secondly IF you think that the DEMS won't scream bloody murder after DACA passes because they won't allow their family members in via chain migration, you're fooling yourself.  In addition, the DEMS will have gained an additional 1.8 million voters -- do you really think that you will see another GOP seated?  They will also grant full-blown amnesty to the 20,000,000 already here and they will do away with the supposed stringent immigration rules that Trump is bargaining with.  What part of the 1.8 million additional DEM voters due to DACA amnesty don't you comprehend?

[skeeter]

First of all I certainly don't trust govt. stats - the number has risen from 800,000 to 1.8 million, and secondly IF you think that the DEMS won't scream bloody murder after DACA passes because they won't allow their family members in via chain migration, you're fooling yourself.  In addition, the DEMS will have gained an additional 1.8 million voters -- do you really think that you will see another GOP seated?  They will also grant full-blown amnesty to the 20,000,000 already here and they will do away with the supposed stringent immigration rules that Trump is bargaining with.  What part of the 1.8 million additional DEM voters due to DACA amnesty don't you comprehend?

Reagan's amnesty went from 1.5 million to over 5 when all was said and done, and continues increasing due to chain migration to this day. It flipped California forever blue.

I also believe congress will never wait to grant citizenship to these folks, the stakes are too high for them. The GOP, and those who would represent us in how we are governed, will never survive 1.8 million times X.

I hope Trump is playing a PR game here.