Trump says he's open to citizenship path for DACA recipients

[dfwgator]

What you demand is politically impossible, and morally indefensible.    Our country was built with the labor of immigrants.   Our past sins in failing to enforce the laws have come back to haunt us, and compel a political compromise to fix.   

LEGAL immigrants who were vetted, and went through the process of becoming Citizens, and came to be Americans and not just for economic reasons.

[libertybele]

They are to me.  Folks who are family-oriented, hard working and religious have the potential to be conservative voters.  Unless, of course, they are demonized by conservatives as undesirable "demographics".   

Jazz, considering that the DEMS are the party that allowed their illegal entry in the first place, why would they vote GOP?  Do you really think that these kids (whom most of them are now of voting age) aren't going to be 'encouraged' by the DEM party to register to vote DEM? The DEMS need groups/people that are dependent on government in order to ascertain their votes.  This is what DACA, illegal immigration, amnesty is all about - DEM votes.  There is no humanitarian element behind them allowing illegals to stay or bringing illegals into this country. This influx of people has always been about enlarging the DEM voting base to the point where there is absolutely no way that the GOP would be in office for a very, very long time because of their sheer numbers.  Remember the DEMS have entrenched in many minds that the GOP is the party of greedy, rich, racist white people.

An undesirable "demographic" are those that fail to assimilate, bringing their aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., into the country that also refuse to assimilate.  To think that anyone of these people are going to vote GOP when it was the DEMS who allowed their family into the country illegally in the first place and now has granted them amnesty is absurd.

[edpc]

They are to me.  Folks who are family-oriented, hard working and religious have the potential to be conservative voters.  Unless, of course, they are demonized by conservatives as undesirable "demographics".

It just so happens that some demographics have been less than interested in cultural assimilation, which is why you have to 'press 1 for English' in most phone menus.  Your naiveté is showing on their political leanings - badly.

[TomSea]

From the top of my head,

George W. Bush probably got 33% of the Hispanic vote in 2004.

Trump got 29%, it's hard to track all of these figures down but that is what I found I believe and that was way better than what Mitt got.

So, I think we see that even with some of Trump's rhetoric, questioned by quite a few, he got a lot of Hispanic votes with his tough immigration stance.

So though @Jazzhead  , speaks about dogwhistles and who demonizes (?), that question should be asked of him as well. 

Many Hispanics agreed with Trump, they see that just granting amnesty often does not do the rest of us that much good, whatever one's color is. So, playing it as white against brown against black, that seems identity politics.

Let's not forget what Sen. Ted Cruz offered was "legal residency" but not citizenship; so we do need to look at things like this and we are in a process of negotiation I'd say.

I've seen too, per in the editorial section too, Cotton is largely Trump's point man on the issue and Cotton is an immigration hawk.

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2018/01/22/daaamn-sen-tom-cotton-lights-flake-graham-and-dicky-durbin-up-over-daca-and-its-brutal/

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/01/tom-cotton-is-dangerously-deceptive.html (slate's take, they are not conservative but one can still find out some things from their article)

[Suppressed]

What you demand is politically impossible, and morally indefensible.    Our country was built with the labor of immigrants.   Our past sins in failing to enforce the laws have come back to haunt us, and compel a political compromise to fix.   

@Jazzhead

@Right_in_Virginia posted this interesting graphic elsewhere on the site.  I'm interested in how you can say "morally indefensible," when I think it is morally indefensible to take money (taxes) from citizens and give it to non-citizens who have come in illegally. How can you defend it?

[Oceander]

@Jazzhead

@Right_in_Virginia posted this interesting graphic elsewhere on the site.  I'm interested in how you can say "morally indefensible," when I think it is morally indefensible to take money (taxes) from citizens and give it to non-citizens who have come in illegally. How can you defend it?

That’s a pretty f**king stupid tweet. 

[txradioguy]

That’s a pretty f**king stupid tweet.

And yet it drives home perfectly what DACA is making legal Americans have to do.

[Emjay]

My parents brought me to America legally from Italy when I was five.

I have no problem with creating a legal path to citizenship for minors brought here illegally through no intention of their own.

Conservatives can be so freaking dense.

Well, they are no longer minors for one thing.  I think they should have a path to citizenship, but it shouldn't be automatic.

[Oceander]

And yet it drives home perfectly what DACA is making legal Americans have to do.

And yet it doesn’t, because your private home is not the same thing as the entire country.  It simply shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the two, and a willingness to engage in stupidity for political ends. 

[dfwgator]

Why would a Hispanic Citizen who followed the rules to become legal support Amnesty?

[aligncare]

Why would a Hispanic Citizen who followed the rules to become legal support Amnesty?

Because those being amnestied can make a pretty strong argument that they were not an accessory to the crime but merely an innocent victim to the crime of being illegally transported across an international border, even though the perps were their parents.

[TomSea]

Because those being amnestied can make a pretty strong argument that they were not an accessory to the crime but merely an innocent victim to the crime of being illegally transported across an international border, even though the perps were their parents.

That's why, maybe legal residency is the answer but I don't think the right to vote should be granted to them nor even to their children. I'd listen to arguments counter to the latter though.

So, Trump talking about this 10-12 years down the line sounds like a bargaining chip to me.

[Emjay]

@libertybele
I agree, how do you do it?

Aye, there's the rub.

The DACA 'kids' are not doing themselves any good right now.  Even attacking Chuckie's house and blocking people from Disneyland.  Some of them are acting like thugs.

I went over to TOS to check out the sentiment and a lot of those people are even saying they would turn against Trump if he caves to DACA.

So, it ain't that simple.  Why can't the DACA people have the same standing as the other illegals currently here?  Those people can apply for citizenship.

[Oceander]

Because those being amnestied can make a pretty strong argument that they were not an accessory to the crime but merely an innocent victim to the crime of being illegally transported across an international border, even though the perps were their parents.

Exactly

[aligncare]

That's why, maybe legal residency is the answer but I don't think the right to vote should be granted to them nor even to their children. I'd listen to arguments counter to the latter though.

So, Trump talking about this 10-12 years down the line sounds like a bargaining chip to me.

Plus it’s the compassionate thing to do.

I will vociferously oppose any action to legalize some illegal inanimate object, but when it comes to hue-mans I tend to to err on the side of compassion, forgiveness, kindness. Hey, that’s just me. I am an admitted softy on some things. That’s why I’m pro life.

[Emjay]

Stand by his opinion on this will change next week.  He's all over the road on this.

Not really.  He is assessing an evolving situation and trying to figure out the best way to get most of what he wants.

[Jazzhead]

It just so happens that some demographics have been less than interested in cultural assimilation, which is why you have to 'press 1 for English' in most phone menus.  Your naiveté is showing on their political leanings - badly.

Hispanics are just as capable of assimilation as the immigrant groups that preceded them.   Of course, the first generation retains its language, but the second generation speaks perfect English. 

I know from direct experience.  Mrs. Jazz was one of eight kids born to a Mexican gardener and his wife.   To this day,  I can barely understand a word her father says.  But the eight kids all went to college - two graduated from  Stanford, and a third from Yale -   and not one of 'em has ever been a burden on the state. 

I can almost accept your argument when it comes to Muslim immigrants.  Their very different faith lends itself to tribalism,  and the faith itself spawns more than its share of INVAR-like extremists.   But Hispanics?   Hard working,  Catholic and family-oriented.   Hispanics are good Americans.   

[Emjay]

That’s a pretty f**king stupid tweet.

I agree, but it's gone viral, as they say.  It's been posted twice on my Facebook page.

[Oceander]

I agree, but it's gone viral, as they say.  It's been posted twice on my Facebook page.

Sorry about that.  I haven’t been on Facebook for ages. 

[Jazzhead]

Because those being amnestied can make a pretty strong argument that they were not an accessory to the crime but merely an innocent victim to the crime of being illegally transported across an international border, even though the perps were their parents.

That's right.  Americans are compassionate by nature.  We know that we live here by the grace of God.  The Dreamers aren't culpable in law-breaking.  It is morally reprehensible to deport them to a country they've never known.   

[Jazzhead]

  I'm interested in how you can say "morally indefensible," when I think it is morally indefensible to take money (taxes) from citizens and give it to non-citizens who have come in illegally. How can you defend it?

My statement was in response to libertybelle's cry of "BUILD THE WALL.  NO AMNESTY.  NO CHAIN MIGRATION"

It is morally indefensible to refuse to address the situation of the Dreamers, who were not culpable in coming here.   Saying "NO AMNESTY" to these folks exhibits a lack of basic compassion. 

As for the situation of their parents, it is one shared by approximately 11 million, who we've encouraged to come here to work, and allowed to remain.   While they undeniably broke the law when they crossed the border,  many of them have worked hard, established home ties and kept their noses clean.   Normalizing the situation of the good ones in exchange for the immigration and security changes conservatives want is, IMO, a good and fair deal.   

[Emjay]

With such a divided Congress and with so many Republican Senators being squishes, what Trump has to do is kinda what Reagan did ... get the Country on your side.

I think he's made a decent start at doing that.

How about a Moratorium on ALL immigration for, say, five years. 

That would not kill anybody and we could have a chance to fairly deal with the illegals already here.

[Emjay]

Sorry about that.  I haven’t been on Facebook for ages.

I go to my Facebook page less and less often.

It's become totally political almost.

Where are the puppy pictures and the recipes?

[Concerned]

I suspect the President will end up signing some amnesty bill for the Dreamers and when he does, I think he’ll just deny it’s amnesty.   The really sad thing IMO is that some will somehow try and defend amnesty as not being amnesty.

[driftdiver]

My statement was in response to libertybelle's cry of "BUILD THE WALL.  NO AMNESTY.  NO CHAIN MIGRATION"

It is morally indefensible to refuse to address the situation of the Dreamers, who were not culpable in coming here.   Saying "NO AMNESTY" to these folks exhibits a lack of basic compassion. 

As for the situation of their parents, it is one shared by approximately 11 million, who we've encouraged to come here to work, and allowed to remain.   While they undeniably broke the law when they crossed the border,  many of them have worked hard, established home ties and kept their noses clean.   Normalizing the situation of the good ones in exchange for the immigration and security changes conservatives want is, IMO, a good and fair deal.

@Jazzhead
If someone breaks into your house but happens to bring their kid.  Are you morally responsible to feed, educate, house, provide health care, and provide them money?  The adult and the kid?

We're to believe these 'kids' are good but in reality we don't really know.  All we know is they've been breaking the law for years and think America owes them something.