NTSB: Amtrak Train Was Traveling 50 MPH Over Speed Limit

[endicom]

Townhall
Leah Barkoukis
Dec. 19, 2017

The National Transportation Safety Board released new information about the deadly train crash in Washington Monday that left at least three people dead and more than 70 injured.

During a news conference late Monday, NTSB board member Bella Dinh-Zarr told reporters the Amtrak train was traveling 80 miles per hour in a zone that was 30 miles per hour. That information, Dinh-Zarr explained, was retrieved from the data recorder in the rear locomotive.

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If the conductor fails to follow posted speeds, Positive Train Control technology, which can slow or stop a train traveling too quickly, wasn’t in use on the part of the track the derailment occurred.

More... https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2017/12/19/ntsb-amtrak-train-was-traveling-50-mph-over-speed-limit-n2424451

[TomSea]

This would seem to what this accident was all about, not sabotage and so on.

[Jazzhead]

This would seem to what this accident was all about, not sabotage and so on.

I agree.   Photos from the scene seem to indicate that the lead locomotive remained on the tracks with no visible front-end damage.   That also suggests no sabotage (i.e., an obstruction on the tracks) but rather too high a speed.   

[thackney]

I agree.   Photos from the scene seem to indicate that the lead locomotive remained on the tracks with no visible front-end damage.   That also suggests no sabotage (i.e., an obstruction on the tracks) but rather too high a speed.

I believe you are seeing the last locomotive, not the lead, still on the tracks.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/19/us/amtrak-derailment-washington/index.html

I believe this is the lead locomotive on the ground with the smashed nose.



https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/19/571865743/ntsb-amtrak-washington-train-doing-80-mph-in-30-mph-zone

[TomSea]

So, I know these trains still have engineers. That accident in Philadelphia found fault with one of the conductors.

Conductor fault here maybe?

[TomSea]

Something caused it to be going way to fast. Maybe it is mechanical error; but it'd be like going 60 MPH say, through a school zone of 15 MPH. Something bad will happen.

[endicom]

Something caused it to be going way to fast. Maybe it is mechanical error; but it'd be like going 60 MPH say, through a school zone of 15 MPH. Something bad will happen.

If the engineer had a smartphone...

[jpsb]

I believe you are seeing the last locomotive, not the lead, still on the tracks.


I believe this is the lead locomotive on the ground with the smashed nose.

Yeah I make the same mistake and thought the rear locomotive was the lead locomotive.
The lead locomotive didn't even try to turn just kept going straight. Driver is in deep
do-do.

[driftdiver]

Something caused it to be going way to fast. Maybe it is mechanical error; but it'd be like going 60 MPH say, through a school zone of 15 MPH. Something bad will happen.

Yes a mechanical error, the guy driving the train pushed the speed lever too far forward and didn't pull it back for the curve.

[Suppressed]

So, I know these trains still have engineers. That accident in Philadelphia found fault with one of the conductors.

No, it wasn't a conductor.  It was engineer Brandon Bostian.

[Jazzhead]

No, it wasn't a conductor.  It was engineer Brandon Bostian.

I believe the official report stated that Engineer Bostian "lacked situational awareness" as he approached a curve at excessive speed,  perhaps because of reports coming over the radio of kids throwing rocks at trains. 

[Jazzhead]

Thanks for the correction, Thackney.    From the jumble of cars, it looks to me that the Amtrak locomotive was in the lead and the cars behind it whipsawed off the track.   (I may have also been influenced by the fact that this was an inaugural Amtrak run; you'd think the Amtrak locomotive would be in the lead with the local engine (Washington DOT) bringing up the rear.)   

[Suppressed]

I believe the official report stated that Engineer Bostian "lacked situational awareness" as he approached a curve at excessive speed,  perhaps because of reports coming over the radio of kids throwing rocks at trains.

Yes, criminal charges were dropped because the judge "felt" it was more likely an accident.

[NavyCanDo]

I believe the official report stated that Engineer Bostian "lacked situational awareness" as he approached a curve at excessive speed,  perhaps because of reports coming over the radio of kids throwing rocks at trains.

At 7:30 AM it is still dark here in Western WA, and by coincidence is the exact time  Im writing this 24 hours after the crash.   I doubt very much kids throwing rocks was a distraction.

[NavyCanDo]

If there is any good news, the death toll which was 3, then raised to 6, is now back to 3. Not sure how that happens. But 10 injured that are in the most critical condition have been transferred to Seattle's Harbor View, better equipped for serious trauma.

At this moment huge cranes are moving train cars on the highway onto flatbed trucks.

[TomSea]

Authorities investigating whether Amtrak engineer was distracted

 CBS/AP December 19, 2017, 3:57 PM

Last Updated Dec 19, 2017 7:31 PM EST

DUPONT, Wash. -- Investigators are looking into whether the Amtrak engineer whose speeding train plunged off an overpass, killing at least three people, was distracted by the presence of an employee-in-training in the locomotive, a federal official said Tuesday. The official, who was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said investigators want to know whether the engineer lost "situational awareness" because of the second person in the cab.

The train was going 80 mph in a 30 mph zone Monday morning when it ran off the rails along a curve, sending some of its cars plunging onto an interstate highway below, National Transportation Safety Member Bella Dinh-Zarr said late Monday, citing data from the locomotive's event recorder.

The NTSB said Tuesday that the inward and outward facing cameras were damaged and they will be sent to the NTSB's lab in Washington, D.C., to see if anything can be recovered. 

Read more at: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/authorities-investigating-whether-amtrak-engineer-was-distracted-washington/

[Frank Cannon]

Bella Dinh-Zarr told reporters the Amtrak train was traveling 80 miles per hour

She also added that if the train would have gone 8 miles an hour extra, the crash would have been avoided because the train would have gone back to 1955.

[Fishrrman]

TomSea wrote:
"So, I know these trains still have engineers. That accident in Philadelphia found fault with one of the conductors.
Conductor fault here maybe?"

The media got it wrong again.
The conductor is back in the body of the train wearing a uniform interacting with the passengers.
The engineer is on the engine running the train.

That engine in post 3 above was all-but brand new. Doesn't look so good now.

Interesting comment from NavyCanDo that it may have been dark at the time of the accident?

Again, remember that this was brand-new railroad, and the guys running the trains had probably just all gotten qualified on the new territory. Perhaps they had done all that running in the daylight. In the dark, it can be a whole different environment out there -- landmarks that you might refer to in the day won't be there to rely on. If you don't have the situational awareness that comes from the experience of working the territory over time, it can be easier to lose track of just where you are.

This wasn't intentional. I doubt the guy was using a cellphone, etc. More than likely he just "lost his place" and didn't realize that until the last moment.

Ever make a mistake on YOUR job?
Were you able to go back and correct it?
Can't do that on a locomotive!

[Suppressed]

TomSea wrote:
"So, I know these trains still have engineers. That accident in Philadelphia found fault with one of the conductors.
Conductor fault here maybe?"

The media got it wrong again.
The conductor is back in the body of the train wearing a uniform interacting with the passengers.
The engineer is on the engine running the train.

Let's be fair.  It was @TomSea who got it wrong, @Fishrrman, not the media.  Bostian was the engineer, as reported in the media.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Then there is this

The more we learn about Amtrak derailment the stranger it gets
http://thehill.com/opinion/technology/366833-the-more-we-learn-about-amtrak-derailment-the-stranger-it-gets

[Fishrrman]

Another article of interest:
http://amp.kiro7.com/news/south-sound-news/railroad-investigator-says-its-wrong-to-point-a-finger-at-train-engineer/668115816

[verga]

BFL